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http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20748805214
Thoughts on the test map so far
It’s cool seeing a lot of constructive discussion on whether or not certain things are good/bad for the game as well as if certain changes are strong/weak right now. We agree that it’s a bit difficult to tell with so many things having changed at once, but we are exploring ways to have a bit more high-level game representation within the balance testing. And we would really love to encourage more players to continuously play the test maps especially after the matchmaker goes out in a couple of weeks.
Now, let’s talk about a few specific items.
Infestor
Both of the new abilities on the Infestor are kind of achieving the similar goal of surprising the enemy before Infestor spells can be cast. When we compare the two things: casting all abilities while burrowed and Deep Tunnel, we believe that the first is much cooler, while Deep Tunnel has significant overlaps with the Battlecruiser’s Tactical Jump ability. Therefore, we wanted to get your thoughts on removing Deep Tunnel, and pushing the cast while burrowed ability to be the strong add.
Adept
We are seeing feedback of trying out a change where the vision radius is reduced on the Adept shades. Unless there is strong disagreement about this change, we’ll start testing on this as well.
Banshee Speed Upgrade
This upgrade at the current tech level does seem to be a bit too much right now. We have been discussing between reducing the speed bonus a bit, or increasing the research time to delay when it is available. Please let us know what your thoughts are regarding this.
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Wait, out of all the Adept discussions they single out the vision radius? I didn't know people were even discussing that. I think they should increase shade cooldown and it'd be good but whatever, maybe it will be a better change.
I agree with their infestor change though, I think deep tunnel was a bit too strong along with burrowed casting. That'd be insanely powerful.
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Maybe allow infestors to enter/exit a nydus worm while burrowed, so it could still give infestors the "surprise" feel Deep Tunnel gives while not being something that can be done all the time.
Please remove the banshee speed upgrade, its unnecessary and ridiculously good
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The adept change seems really nice, I like it, maybe it could lead to some nice counter-moves to adepts shading around, without nerfing the unit too much
Nice!
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Vision radius nerf instead of cooldown nerf? Uhh that's a weird change. It does make ambushing adepts when they appear easier.
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On August 27 2016 02:06 Thouhastmail wrote:
Banshee Speed Upgrade
This upgrade at the current tech level does seem to be a bit too much right now. We have been discussing between reducing the speed bonus a bit, or increasing the research time to delay when it is available. Please let us know what your thoughts are regarding this.
please increase the research time and research cost.
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On August 27 2016 02:12 blade55555 wrote:
Wait, out of all the Adept discussions they single out the vision radius? I didn't know people were even discussing that. I think they should increase shade cooldown and it'd be good but whatever, maybe it will be a better change.
I agree with their infestor change though, I think deep tunnel was a bit too strong along with burrowed casting. That'd be insanely powerful.
Surely free scouting is a problem.
I thought they would nerf adept itself tho.
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I think we have a lot of obvious things that we need to talk about.
Like Winter and Lokwo said , we should buff Zerg and Protoss and not nerf the Terran buffs.
Zerg ( I will talk about them because I main that )
Hydras are to costly and to low in HP , the changes are good but the unit can hardly be a core one.
Ravagers with Armor are worse then pure roaches, this is one unit that doesn't need to be nerfed because it kills the balance in ZvP , yes their good vs tanks but with armor their absolute trash vs marauder,stalker,immortals,tanks etc.
Infestor should get a bit more love like removing the research for neural parasite ability and giving back upgrades for infested terrans.
Banelings need a speed buff not a HP buff , mostly because ZvZ is even worse , yes guys it can be worse.
Zerg economy in general feels weak, we need 4 larva tested or a buff to the larva spawning rate.
The SH needs a redesign, their still bad units because you don't harass at that point in the game as Zerg.
Early game for Zerg is still problematic, a new unit like a redesign SH should be tested. Lings and Roaches can't be the answer to everything and they shouldn't be either.
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On August 27 2016 02:12 blade55555 wrote:
Wait, out of all the Adept discussions they single out the vision radius? I didn't know people were even discussing that. I think they should increase shade cooldown and it'd be good but whatever, maybe it will be a better change.
It's being rallied around by protoss players in an attempt to avoid a nerf that actually matters just like msc vision during blink era.
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Infestor and battlecruiser ability overlaps ? If you MC a Battlecruiser then yes ?
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So... the matchmaker for the balance tesp map only will be available in a couple weeks? That's sad =[.
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A couple of weeks for the matchmaker? damn....
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i feel like the current problem for zerg is that it doesnt have the economy advantage anymore at any point of the game , or larva" that it used to have , convined with the lack of options zerg has , it's really predictable
i'll like to see overlord speed increase (better harass , and vision) , or at least the morphed one for drops , it would also help holding the abundant 10pool zvz
give the infestor a single target skill similar to high templar or ghost
reduce the cooldown of the swarmhost to reasonable lvls , maybe make its upgrades more costly
maybe even make a new early game unit for zerg for harass mainly
basically buff zerg early game , and economy , fix or replace sh
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Please nerf Adepts into uselessness, its a toxic unit
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We are seeing feedback of trying out a change where the vision radius is reduced on the Adept shades. Unless there is strong disagreement about this change, we’ll start testing on this as well.
This isn't going to do much unless the radius is nerfed to nearly nothing.
If that's the case, then shading around for harassment is slightly more risky ... but it's still not going to change how the unit is primarily used. That's the real complaint people have: mass adepts + warp prisms shading around all their mineral lines focusing workers.
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Nothing on how useless ravagers are with armored tag?
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I agree with infestor deep tunnel ability to be a bit similar or nearly the same as bc tactical jump... however casting speels while burrowed is kinda op as fuck in my opinion it can be to deadly specially when paired with banes vs infantry or toss deathball... also i still think that nerfing tempest range vs ground to 6 is overreaction killing the unit, and the spell on it is kinda useless, it cant kill running through ling, only good vs cannons and tanks... much more like worse storm or damageing FF.banshee speed upgread must be moved somewhere, otherwise meching players have justto many opening options as zergs have vs toss now- insane, imagine toss haveing to be ready for banshee opener, tank pushes, helion/mines drop standard bio, cyclone pushes and more ( tested it on balance map  ) also i disagree on nerfing adept.i even think that instead of nerfing terran mech now, we should focus on buffing both zerg and toss abit, not to much but small buffs to more units instead of buffing 1 unit to be just ridicoulus effective
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Also as guys aove stated the nerf on ravager is also a killing blow to this unit as nerf to tempest- they will be new Swarm hosts which by the way need redesign...
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All I play is the test map nowadays since once this goes through those who are prepared will excel in the new meta, this is a mildly disappointing update but only because the Adept isn't being taken seriously as a balance problem.
The problem with the Adept is threefold
1. Bonus damage vs. almost everything Zerg/Terran has in the early game (especially Zerg) while being BEEFY AS HELL
2. The Shade allowing the Adepts to perfectly and with zero risk scout for holes/weaknesses
3. Easy to mass and once massed can attack 2 - 3 different places at once with an innate ability
1. Give the shade a weakness (it's a spam ability with no energy and low cool down) not something lame like they can't see as well that is a terrible PR "Yea we know Adepts are OP let's give it more time" nerf.
2. Nerf it's damn HP or shields or something, they take more punishment then a Zealot while dealing much more damage and being infinitely more mobile, the unit is just absurdly tanky for how mobile it is. Generally units that hit hard are either slow or fragile or why would you even bother building anything else?
3. Do something about the fact that Protoss players mass Adepts over and over again and Blink Stalkers are still horrible, there needs to be a power balance shift between the 2 units. Stalkers need to hit harder out of the gate, and Adepts need to be mellowed out. Notice how there is no mass stalker or mass zealot builds but mass adepts builds are dominating the ladder and pro scene.
anyways...
Remove the goddamn Banshee speed change, stop making everything so fast, that isn't balance, this isn't FastCraft 2. It was OP when they tried it before and it's OP now, give the Banshee a useful change like +1 range upgrade, make the Banshee better offensively not broken.
Change the Raven some other way, auto turret buffs? Hello mass Raven cancer builds, if anything buff this unit's speed it's slow as hell but turrets are so cancerous.
Remove the Swarm Host from the game, please, or make it counter mass air or give it some actual useful role in the Zerg Swarm. It has no identity, why would I build these siege unit wannabe's when I can use that gas for Brood Lords which do the job better?
Disruption Web (the Corsair/Tempest thingy) seems cool but with how long it lasts it can kind of be a bit broken, I think if the duration wasn't almost a minute it would be a cool addition to the game but in it's current form it's just OP as shit.
Pretty much every other change besides these ones seem fantastic, Hydralisks are awesome, scarier Zealots are awesome, the new Cyclone seems cool.
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On August 27 2016 04:39 Beelzebub1 wrote:
All I play is the test map nowadays since once this goes through those who are prepared will excel in the new meta, this is a mildly disappointing update but only because the Adept isn't being taken seriously as a balance problem.
The problem with the Adept is threefold
1. Bonus damage vs. almost everything Zerg/Terran has in the early game (especially Zerg) while being BEEFY AS HELL
2. The Shade allowing the Adepts to perfectly and with zero risk scout for holes/weaknesses
3. Easy to mass and once massed can attack 2 - 3 different places at once with an innate ability
1. Give the shade a weakness (it's a spam ability with no energy and low cool down) not something lame like they can't see as well that is a terrible PR "Yea we know Adepts are OP let's give it more time" nerf.
2. Nerf it's damn HP or shields or something, they take more punishment then a Zealot while dealing much more damage and being infinitely more mobile, the unit is just absurdly tanky for how mobile it is. Generally units that hit hard are either slow or fragile or why would you even bother building anything else?
3. Do something about the fact that Protoss players mass Adepts over and over again and Blink Stalkers are still horrible, there needs to be a power balance shift between the 2 units. Stalkers need to hit harder out of the gate, and Adepts need to be mellowed out. Notice how there is no mass stalker or mass zealot builds but mass adepts builds are dominating the ladder and pro scene.
anyways...
Remove the goddamn Banshee speed change, stop making everything so fast, that isn't balance, this isn't FastCraft 2. It was OP when they tried it before and it's OP now, give the Banshee a useful change like +1 range upgrade, make the Banshee better offensively not broken.
Change the Raven some other way, auto turret buffs? Hello mass Raven cancer builds, if anything buff this unit's speed it's slow as hell but turrets are so cancerous.
Remove the Swarm Host from the game, please, or make it counter mass air or give it some actual useful role in the Zerg Swarm. It has no identity, why would I build these siege unit wannabe's when I can use that gas for Brood Lords which do the job better?
Disruption Web (the Corsair/Tempest thingy) seems cool but with how long it lasts it can kind of be a bit broken, I think if the duration wasn't almost a minute it would be a cool addition to the game but in it's current form it's just OP as shit.
Pretty much every other change besides these ones seem fantastic, Hydralisks are awesome, scarier Zealots are awesome, the new Cyclone seems cool.
Agreed on everything but adepts. I guess poeple had figured them out. They are not as dominant as they used to be. A very slight HP buff is, may be, the only thing that could be done.
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EPT
