On June 07 2016 11:01 lord_nibbler wrote: I find it borderline disqualifying how Namaste and Caldeum Plateau are only similar in name to their old version. If you can add and remove expansions or even a whole half of a map, what is the point of the finalist selection process? At this point, just nominate your favorite map makers already, let them show you their recent rough ideas and assign them the job.
You can not have it both ways. Judge the maps and let the winners change everything about these maps. Either the map maker has a clear concept of his work, that he can be judged on. Or he is able to replace the core erratically, which is kind of proof that the first version did not have a real concept to begin with...
The literal point of the iteration phase is to make changes to the maps according to feedback. I got alot of feedback that did nothing but make the map better. If you want I can send you the old, worse Namaste, and have that get to ladder instead? No, you should be given the best version possible. Else there is absolutely no purpose to having an iteration phase except for some bug fixes, which would happen on the way to Blizzard anyway.
If there was an iteration phase for the Blizzard submission, you'd have Invader II, a much better map, than the one now.
The thing is, once you allow the finalist to drastically change their maps in order "to get the best possible ladder map", you undermine the whole contest! See, it might be hard to accept, but a contest is different to a contract work. Ultimately they aim for different outcomes! The contest wants to provide equal opportunity, a fair and open process and sustained interest in the contest itself. The selection of maps for ladder is only a byproduct of the contest! It is not even a question, the selection process does not need to be fair or open in any way.
I know you are personally involved and all, but in the interest of fairness, they should have told you "Sorry, but changing 90% of your map is unacceptable. You will have to enter the 2.0 version in the next competition. But maybe you are lucky and Blizzard selects your old version anyway."
Getting the best maps possible on ladder is the goal, and if anything this map-making contest is the byproduct. Overhauling a map carries its own penalties namely making the gathered data less relevant, potentially adding new imbalances, etc. If a mapmaker deems that the map has problems that make taking the risk to overhaul it necessary he/she should by all means go ahead.
On June 07 2016 12:06 Avexyli wrote: I don't understand your direction. [..] I really fail to see how this is negative or hurts the integrity of the contest.
Let's leave it at that. This discussion between us two obviously leads nowhere and will not change anything anyway.
On June 07 2016 12:06 Avexyli wrote: I don't understand your direction. [..] I really fail to see how this is negative or hurts the integrity of the contest.
Let's leave it at that. This discussion between us two obviously leads nowhere and will not change anything anyway.
Do know that I value your opinion, I just simply am having trouble seeing your view. If you would like to PM me with your concerns I'd be happy to address them more specifically.
On June 07 2016 12:06 Avexyli wrote: I don't understand your direction. [..] I really fail to see how this is negative or hurts the integrity of the contest.
Let's leave it at that. This discussion between us two obviously leads nowhere and will not change anything anyway.
Do know that I value your opinion, I just simply am having trouble seeing your view. If you would like to PM me with your concerns I'd be happy to address them more specifically.
I think his point with "hurting the integrity of the contest" is that your maps got chosen as finalists and AFTER it was safe they are finalists you did those big changes to it with the knowledge you can do whatever you want because it will be in the finalist list anyway and basically changing your map so much that the reason it got selected as a finalist may not be apparent in the new version anymore. I'd agree with him if you just made changes whatever you feel like but considering you made those changes based on the feedback you got I think it's okay. I have to say though that I preferred the old version of Caldeum plateau
Annihilation Station Just an overall great standard map and I think we will definitely want one (or more!) of these in the next ladder season. We've gone with very crazy maps recently and I think having one map, that doesn't bring much crazyiness to the map pool would be well received.
Korhal Killzone It's my map, I love it, I think it can create very interesting games. Short rush distance but bases are easy enough to hold. Plenty of places to harass with air/drops. Has a very Neo Planet S feel to it where your army moves around the outside of the map but you can quickly switch sides by going through the middle (and maybe harassing that middle base in the process!) I believe all styles can be played on this map from 1-2 base all-ins to 4 or 5 base end games, from bio to mech, from ling/bling to swarm host. I could go on and on and on why I think you should vote for my map but I'll stop there =)
Dasan Station: Overall, it'd be scary to have on ladder, but I think for part of this map tournament it did a great job. It's a very unique layout & design and I think it can keep producing very fun, interesting, low econ games. Eventually though I fear certain strats will be found that are completely broken.
Flame Juggler: In base natural and close by regular 3rd if you want to play standard, otherwise take the aggressive gold and try your best to hold it from harass. Both top and bottom sides of the map will be used depending on how you want to play the game out. (Also a main reason why I'm picking this over Shiva)
Gojira Greenhouse: The changes you did on this map are great. I posted in the original thread what I disliked about it and you changed a good chunk of those =P I worry that air harass (libs/oracles/drops) might be still a bit too strong since pretty much every mineral line is very tucked up against the edges. Either way, great changes and I think this would map would produce some very interesting games.
On June 07 2016 14:26 EatThePath wrote: Voting for all maps named "X Plateau" so we can have a dream pool one day of each plateau from every planet in the starcraft lore.
On June 07 2016 14:26 EatThePath wrote: Voting for all maps named "X Plateau" so we can have a dream pool one day of each plateau from every planet in the starcraft lore.
Korhal Killzone It's my map, I love it, I think it can create very interesting games. Short rush distance but bases are easy enough to hold. Plenty of places to harass with air/drops. Has a very Neo Planet S feel to it where your army moves around the outside of the map but you can quickly switch sides by going through the middle (and maybe harassing that middle base in the process!) I believe all styles can be played on this map from 1-2 base all-ins to 4 or 5 base end games, from bio to mech, from ling/bling to swarm host. I could go on and on and on why I think you should vote for my map but I'll stop there =)
EPT
