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On June 05 2016 20:47 Parcelleus wrote:
I dont think worker count should be added to the UI. As it is, it adds another variable to juggle that is part of starcraft. The less auto-pilot the game is the better it is for it's long term playability imho.
Like MBS, unlimited unit selection, customisable hotkeys, in game clock, shift-queues, automining at the start of gane, etc?
Is not about auto pilot (this change doesn't has such a big impact) but about focusing the attention of the game by getting rid of the menial tasks.
Splitting workers at the start of the game and managing 12 unit control groups were also skills needed to play but having them didn't made the game better and not having them didn't take away skill it just made it so the skill needed was focused somewhere else.
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Nydus worms that cant be killed
Ultralisks still with 8 armor
Parasitic bomb cant be dodged
Ovi drops super early in the game
4 supply tempest
Warprism speed and pickup range
etc
etc
etc
Blizzard is really on top of things.
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lategame zvt i have no idea if i have 65 or 85 drones on my 6-7 bases.
sure, i will know something is wrong if i have less than 60 (hey where are mah drones where's my income) or more than 90 (hmm i'm on limit but this army looks a bit thin).
i will be happy to check the worker count from time to time, to adjust it to the sweet spot that i have chosen.
i wouldn't mind even more ui QoL additions, like all ongoing upgrades shown with an icon (just like replay production tab interface, but keeping the finished upgrades for 30s or until i click the icon which would bring me to the building so i could continue upgrading if i wanted).
steal hotkeys were a very nice QoL improvement as well, i like it.
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Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
Nydus Worms are gimmicky as shit
Warp Prisms are just ridiculous, it's a flying Warp Gate that can pick up from range for minerals only...minerals only? Even droplords cost 25 gas, Medivacs cost alot more gas then that, why don't Warp Prisms cost gas? They don't need to be nerfed, they need to cost gas, or if they don't cost cost then they need to be nerfed.
Swarm Hosts are still what in the holy Hell horrible regardless of their cost, that unit needs to be removed from the game or redesigned, it just sucks from the bottom up, you could make that thing cost only minerals and it would still suck.
Oh, and Cyclones still suck, Zerglings shut them down hard, Mutalisks shut them down hard unless they are like even numbers of Cyclones vs. even numbers of Mutalisks.
Last balance update was fantastic, but more work needs to be done.
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How are ghosts OP against broodlords when broodlords outrange ghosts and interrupt them?
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So what Will they do about cyclone cooldown?
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On June 06 2016 10:38 raff100 wrote:
So what Will they do about cyclone cooldown?
Fix it since it's like twice as long as it's supposed to be right now
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On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself.
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On June 06 2016 12:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself.
T late game sucks because it's early game and mid game pretty much holds all the cards, they all in because it's optimal, there are optimal ways to play every match up from every angle, when you play ZvP, you try to be aggressive and not let the Protoss assemble the ultimate doom army. TvZ has always been about Terran inflicting harass damage to slow the Zerg economy down or else they will get run over, people are starting to bring this up like it's a new issue when it's been the same way the match up has been played for years. Why do you think Terrans like Bomber are so special? Because he defies the norm and plays passive macro games against Zerg and still wins.
Ultralisks are OP, but to be honest when I see a Zerg go late game, get the Ultras and NOT kill the Terran, the Zerg usually loses. Ghosts/Liberators/Mines/bio works pretty damn good against pretty much everyone who isn't Korean, anytime I see Polt get to the late game against a Zerg the Zerg usually looks like he's grasping for straws as Ghosts mow down Ultras and Broods and the double drops to outlying expansions makes securing strong late game economy difficult to say the least.
I'm not saying Terran's late game isn't on the weaker end, but Terrans act like they have no chance if they don't all in is just an exaggeration. Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false.
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Ultras were super strong against bio in BW to, so i don't think it's a problem that they massacre bio in SC2. In BW Tanks were the answer, in SC2 it's apparently Liberators. The problem might be the entire air vs ground that leads to air vs air. If anything i think air units are the problem with SC2. They are to strong compared to ground.
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On June 06 2016 12:17 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 12:04 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself. T late game sucks because it's early game and mid game pretty much holds all the cards, they all in because it's optimal, there are optimal ways to play every match up from every angle, when you play ZvP, you try to be aggressive and not let the Protoss assemble the ultimate doom army. TvZ has always been about Terran inflicting harass damage to slow the Zerg economy down or else they will get run over, people are starting to bring this up like it's a new issue when it's been the same way the match up has been played for years. Why do you think Terrans like Bomber are so special? Because he defies the norm and plays passive macro games against Zerg and still wins. Ultralisks are OP, but to be honest when I see a Zerg go late game, get the Ultras and NOT kill the Terran, the Zerg usually loses. Ghosts/Liberators/Mines/bio works pretty damn good against pretty much everyone who isn't Korean, anytime I see Polt get to the late game against a Zerg the Zerg usually looks like he's grasping for straws as Ghosts mow down Ultras and Broods and the double drops to outlying expansions makes securing strong late game economy difficult to say the least. I'm not saying Terran's late game isn't on the weaker end, but Terrans act like they have no chance if they don't all in is just an exaggeration. Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false.
Didn't you just make a blanket statement? It's pretty obvious that outside of Dusk Towers, no Terran is going into the mindset of ... let's play out to late game TvZ and the only reason Dusk Towers is like that cause the map architecture allows you to turtle up behind a pretty small mid area. There's been times in SC where Terrans have gone for early game timings cause that's the best way to beat another race (1/1/1 vs Protoss, SCV pulling vs Protoss, WoL 2/2 Tank Timing to combat Infestor/BroodLord), there was always a top player that was very good at the late game (like Taeja's TvP late game was stupid strong and made late game TvP look very winnable). I don't know any top Korean Terran right now that willingly goes into the late game vs Zerg.
Considering that the entire game now revolves around the fact that when Ultras pop and if their + armor is done is just silly when we had probably the most dynamic and skillbased matchup in HoTS because of a strong midgame, that's basically gone now.
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On June 06 2016 15:27 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 12:17 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 06 2016 12:04 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself. T late game sucks because it's early game and mid game pretty much holds all the cards, they all in because it's optimal, there are optimal ways to play every match up from every angle, when you play ZvP, you try to be aggressive and not let the Protoss assemble the ultimate doom army. TvZ has always been about Terran inflicting harass damage to slow the Zerg economy down or else they will get run over, people are starting to bring this up like it's a new issue when it's been the same way the match up has been played for years. Why do you think Terrans like Bomber are so special? Because he defies the norm and plays passive macro games against Zerg and still wins. Ultralisks are OP, but to be honest when I see a Zerg go late game, get the Ultras and NOT kill the Terran, the Zerg usually loses. Ghosts/Liberators/Mines/bio works pretty damn good against pretty much everyone who isn't Korean, anytime I see Polt get to the late game against a Zerg the Zerg usually looks like he's grasping for straws as Ghosts mow down Ultras and Broods and the double drops to outlying expansions makes securing strong late game economy difficult to say the least. I'm not saying Terran's late game isn't on the weaker end, but Terrans act like they have no chance if they don't all in is just an exaggeration. Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false. Didn't you just make a blanket statement? It's pretty obvious that outside of Dusk Towers, no Terran is going into the mindset of ... let's play out to late game TvZ and the only reason Dusk Towers is like that cause the map architecture allows you to turtle up behind a pretty small mid area. There's been times in SC where Terrans have gone for early game timings cause that's the best way to beat another race (1/1/1 vs Protoss, SCV pulling vs Protoss, WoL 2/2 Tank Timing to combat Infestor/BroodLord), there was always a top player that was very good at the late game (like Taeja's TvP late game was stupid strong and made late game TvP look very winnable). I don't know any top Korean Terran right now that willingly goes into the late game vs Zerg. Considering that the entire game now revolves around the fact that when Ultras pop and if their + armor is done is just silly when we had probably the most dynamic and skillbased matchup in HoTS because of a strong midgame, that's basically gone now.
Where did I make any blanket statement about anything? I'm saying that I know T end game is weak but early and mid game is strong but that late game ZvT is still winnable just because it's the one unfavorable part of the match up. That's been how ZvP has been for years and years with Zerg holding more cards in the mid game but in the late game Protoss has the edge in large army scenarios and nobody really batted an eye.
In all non mirrors there is a better part of a game for a certain race, mid game Zerg vs. Protoss and end game Zerg vs Terran, that's why the entire goal of Zerg right now is to literally just survive until Ultralisks.
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Add in the worker count, I say. It helps with the late game when you have 4+ bases and you've got workers spread out everywhere. Means you can focus on production and army control, which is way more fun that checking each base and seeing how many workers you have.
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On June 06 2016 15:53 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 15:27 Chaggi wrote:On June 06 2016 12:17 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 06 2016 12:04 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself. T late game sucks because it's early game and mid game pretty much holds all the cards, they all in because it's optimal, there are optimal ways to play every match up from every angle, when you play ZvP, you try to be aggressive and not let the Protoss assemble the ultimate doom army. TvZ has always been about Terran inflicting harass damage to slow the Zerg economy down or else they will get run over, people are starting to bring this up like it's a new issue when it's been the same way the match up has been played for years. Why do you think Terrans like Bomber are so special? Because he defies the norm and plays passive macro games against Zerg and still wins. Ultralisks are OP, but to be honest when I see a Zerg go late game, get the Ultras and NOT kill the Terran, the Zerg usually loses. Ghosts/Liberators/Mines/bio works pretty damn good against pretty much everyone who isn't Korean, anytime I see Polt get to the late game against a Zerg the Zerg usually looks like he's grasping for straws as Ghosts mow down Ultras and Broods and the double drops to outlying expansions makes securing strong late game economy difficult to say the least. I'm not saying Terran's late game isn't on the weaker end, but Terrans act like they have no chance if they don't all in is just an exaggeration. Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false. Didn't you just make a blanket statement? It's pretty obvious that outside of Dusk Towers, no Terran is going into the mindset of ... let's play out to late game TvZ and the only reason Dusk Towers is like that cause the map architecture allows you to turtle up behind a pretty small mid area. There's been times in SC where Terrans have gone for early game timings cause that's the best way to beat another race (1/1/1 vs Protoss, SCV pulling vs Protoss, WoL 2/2 Tank Timing to combat Infestor/BroodLord), there was always a top player that was very good at the late game (like Taeja's TvP late game was stupid strong and made late game TvP look very winnable). I don't know any top Korean Terran right now that willingly goes into the late game vs Zerg. Considering that the entire game now revolves around the fact that when Ultras pop and if their + armor is done is just silly when we had probably the most dynamic and skillbased matchup in HoTS because of a strong midgame, that's basically gone now. Where did I make any blanket statement about anything? I'm saying that I know T end game is weak but early and mid game is strong but that late game ZvT is still winnable just because it's the one unfavorable part of the match up. That's been how ZvP has been for years and years with Zerg holding more cards in the mid game but in the late game Protoss has the edge in large army scenarios and nobody really batted an eye. In all non mirrors there is a better part of a game for a certain race, mid game Zerg vs. Protoss and end game Zerg vs Terran, that's why the entire goal of Zerg right now is to literally just survive until Ultralisks.
Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false.
Looks pretty blanket to me
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I keep thinking they could have introduced some lotv unit with a passive ability that gives double damage for the first attack, with a 30 seconds cooldown or something similar. Would have encouraged smaller and more often skirmishes.
Probably could have replaced some unit failures from HotS, like the swarmhost or tempest. Oh well 
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On June 06 2016 12:17 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 12:04 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself. "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false.
okay show me the terran pro that willingly goes into lategame tvz.
Polt crushing noobs on NA ladder doesn't count.
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had a good think about this for a few days and i really think you should revert back to wols way of ui!
Ok dont kill me, hear me out!
When we were playing wol the idea of saturation and counting workers and getting a balance and bench marks were a thing. Now they arent.
I dont need to be mindful of the game im going to master cos half of this shit is done for me and that is the point im trying to make.
The mastery is being taken out. Casuals can still have a game of starcraft, the serious players can take and soak all the info giving them a deeper learning of the whole game adn the satisfaction of having the edge over competitors becuase they took the time to learn it.
My case and point with this is my programming classes. 60% can take code ive given them and implement it willingly. Copy pasta in other words. 30% can modify and improve.... ( maybe but my code is shit hot! . . sometimes) . . but there are 10% that dont want it to be made easy, they are the ones that think up the new ideas and indeed become the gms of the class.
They see the idea or read or hear, then apply their knowledge and come up with something better or innovative. I see sc like this in many ways, yes we can all cheese our way to masters but if we cant develop a solid way of verifying what we are doing, ur basically just trying to hit numbers against other numbers. is starcraft strategy game or not? Im still appalled with my classes that noone has ever head of starcraft. Im dead, fuckin, serious! With this, the game doesnt need to be made any easier or accessible, we need to keep the core and get rid of all the shit that are the ones who are probably bringing this game down. its not dead, never will be but making the game easier to access may take away the skills people have put into this game over the last 10 years. ive totally grown up from my teen with this game i personally dont mind change but if i ever hit GM i want it to be on my strategy and deep knowledge of the game not because i cant seem to hit the buttons 500 times a minute which seems to be the going rate for 'knowledge of the game' which has been banded around for the last 6 years.
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On June 04 2016 03:54 Wrath wrote:Show nested quote +We’ve located why this human error happened, and will do our best to prevent this from happening again. I feel sorry for the guy who had taken the blame for this.
Probably got Sniped.
Also, it's nice to see the Cyclone thing come into fruition!
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On June 06 2016 04:29 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Nydus worms that cant be killed Ultralisks still with 8 armor Parasitic bomb cant be dodged Ovi drops super early in the game 4 supply tempest Warprism speed and pickup range
Blizzard is really on top of things.
clearly they think all these things are good enough to be in the game for 6+ months through several patches before and after retail release. they are not in the game by accident;
i thought Terran was too air-centric and they reacted with their latest patch. i've gotten everything i asked for except a buff to the Tank with a corresponding nerf to anything in the air. i even got stuff in LotV that i didn't ask for and made the game better. i think Blizzard and the RTS team are on top of things.
Despite the great job Blizzard is doing with LotV I'm playing a lot less. now if you'll excuse me its time for my afternoon nap; big Overwatch all-nighter coming up tonight and i have to be well rested.
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On June 06 2016 17:17 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 15:53 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 06 2016 15:27 Chaggi wrote:On June 06 2016 12:17 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 06 2016 12:04 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2016 10:03 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ultralisks don't need to be nerfed, Ghosts are hilariously OP against them, I'm not a fan of the, "Ultras are OP vs and Ghosts are OP vs. Ultra and Broods" dynamic that's what we have so hey, it is what it is, learn to use Ghosts, your meant to go to late game tech in the late game sometimes.
I'm tired of explaining why t lategame sucks, the fact that every pro terran allins the zerg before ultras come out speaks for itself. T late game sucks because it's early game and mid game pretty much holds all the cards, they all in because it's optimal, there are optimal ways to play every match up from every angle, when you play ZvP, you try to be aggressive and not let the Protoss assemble the ultimate doom army. TvZ has always been about Terran inflicting harass damage to slow the Zerg economy down or else they will get run over, people are starting to bring this up like it's a new issue when it's been the same way the match up has been played for years. Why do you think Terrans like Bomber are so special? Because he defies the norm and plays passive macro games against Zerg and still wins. Ultralisks are OP, but to be honest when I see a Zerg go late game, get the Ultras and NOT kill the Terran, the Zerg usually loses. Ghosts/Liberators/Mines/bio works pretty damn good against pretty much everyone who isn't Korean, anytime I see Polt get to the late game against a Zerg the Zerg usually looks like he's grasping for straws as Ghosts mow down Ultras and Broods and the double drops to outlying expansions makes securing strong late game economy difficult to say the least. I'm not saying Terran's late game isn't on the weaker end, but Terrans act like they have no chance if they don't all in is just an exaggeration. Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false. Didn't you just make a blanket statement? It's pretty obvious that outside of Dusk Towers, no Terran is going into the mindset of ... let's play out to late game TvZ and the only reason Dusk Towers is like that cause the map architecture allows you to turtle up behind a pretty small mid area. There's been times in SC where Terrans have gone for early game timings cause that's the best way to beat another race (1/1/1 vs Protoss, SCV pulling vs Protoss, WoL 2/2 Tank Timing to combat Infestor/BroodLord), there was always a top player that was very good at the late game (like Taeja's TvP late game was stupid strong and made late game TvP look very winnable). I don't know any top Korean Terran right now that willingly goes into the late game vs Zerg. Considering that the entire game now revolves around the fact that when Ultras pop and if their + armor is done is just silly when we had probably the most dynamic and skillbased matchup in HoTS because of a strong midgame, that's basically gone now. Where did I make any blanket statement about anything? I'm saying that I know T end game is weak but early and mid game is strong but that late game ZvT is still winnable just because it's the one unfavorable part of the match up. That's been how ZvP has been for years and years with Zerg holding more cards in the mid game but in the late game Protoss has the edge in large army scenarios and nobody really batted an eye. In all non mirrors there is a better part of a game for a certain race, mid game Zerg vs. Protoss and end game Zerg vs Terran, that's why the entire goal of Zerg right now is to literally just survive until Ultralisks. Show nested quote +Blanket statements like, "the fact that every pro terran all ins Zerg before Hive" are almost unanimously false. Looks pretty blanket to me
Yea, looks like you pretty much either can't read or you're just passive aggressive crying, done wasting time replying to you, at least Charisaur leaves something worth discussing even if I don't personally agree with him entirely.
@Charisaur He wasn't crushing "noobs on the NA ladder" I believe it was a very recent tournament against European pro players, best of 5 vs Nerchio or something like that, Nercio or Bly I always confuse them.
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EPT
