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On May 22 2016 00:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 22:35 B-royal wrote:On May 21 2016 17:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 21 2016 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On May 21 2016 04:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Next Week’s Patch/Map Updates
Split feedback from community and KeSPA pros
We’re seeing another complete split in feedback here. Please let us know if we’re wrong about what the major community feedback is regarding Terran, but what we’re seeing is that our community thinks Terran is the weakest race right now. From another angle, we received KeSPA feedback that said Terran is the strongest, Protoss is also too strong and need more nerfs than just the Immortal nerf, and that Zerg is the clear weakest and could use major buffs.
I am a Random Diamond player and Terran is my favourite race. Terran is also my worst race even though i love it. Terran is my weakest race BECAUSE my APM is low. You do not need to change the game so that I am better with Terran. I fully accept that Terran can only be played with high APM and I will just struggle along. Just because Terran is weak for me and my old and slow friends doesn't mean the race is weak for everyone. So please just balance the game for the top level players and don't worry about slow guys like me. On May 21 2016 04:04 Kafka777 wrote:
Kespa is probably right about their suggestions and obviously they are interested in keeping the game balanced and competitive. They want balance around highest level of game play. It would be silly to balance it around low tier players, that would cause a need to issue balance patches every two weeks. i agree. i have a 50/50 win percentage with all 3 races. Its just the league i do it in with Terran has a different logo. I don't care. i'm not 12 years old... i can get over losing a video game to a player who might "technically" be slightly worse than me and beatable with a different race. I never understood the Terran need high APM thing, as a plat player, Diamon in hots with terran I feel the opposite, I like Terran because it dosen't need high amp (at least at my level) I hardly go over the 120 APM in average playing bio, I hate liberator because it is to much amp. For me Protoss seem impossible with all the casting to do it feel it need a lot more APM even more in LOTV, Zerg is just to much apm to macro for me with the injects. Zerg is just easier. Its the same for Brood War. Lol. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Please don't talk about brood war at all. Zerg is the easiest race for me and for the group i play with in both SC2 and Brood War. No one has an APM over 150. You can take it leave it do whatever you want with it. it is a fact. However, this is an SC2 thread about feedback. and my feedback is that Zerg is easiest for me to play. Another fact.
i mainly play with other low APM people and we pretty much share the same experience: Zerg is the easiest race to play in both SC2 and Brood War. In Brood War you really have to babysit your terran infantry... and then micro the fuck out of them to make them effective. With Zerg you can just throw your units at the opponent army.. the most you might do is "surround and then attack"
Seemed to me like you didn't state it in a way constituting only an opinion or a fact applying solely to you.
Furthermore, why don't you call it a personal experience instead of a fact? You can call anything a fact by your standard of measure. Also, why are you sharing your experience of which race is easiest when it only applies at the D-/D level? Not very relevant to a game that revolves around its competitive nature...
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On May 22 2016 00:49 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2016 00:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 21 2016 22:35 B-royal wrote:On May 21 2016 17:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 21 2016 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On May 21 2016 04:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Next Week’s Patch/Map Updates
Split feedback from community and KeSPA pros
We’re seeing another complete split in feedback here. Please let us know if we’re wrong about what the major community feedback is regarding Terran, but what we’re seeing is that our community thinks Terran is the weakest race right now. From another angle, we received KeSPA feedback that said Terran is the strongest, Protoss is also too strong and need more nerfs than just the Immortal nerf, and that Zerg is the clear weakest and could use major buffs.
I am a Random Diamond player and Terran is my favourite race. Terran is also my worst race even though i love it. Terran is my weakest race BECAUSE my APM is low. You do not need to change the game so that I am better with Terran. I fully accept that Terran can only be played with high APM and I will just struggle along. Just because Terran is weak for me and my old and slow friends doesn't mean the race is weak for everyone. So please just balance the game for the top level players and don't worry about slow guys like me. On May 21 2016 04:04 Kafka777 wrote:
Kespa is probably right about their suggestions and obviously they are interested in keeping the game balanced and competitive. They want balance around highest level of game play. It would be silly to balance it around low tier players, that would cause a need to issue balance patches every two weeks. i agree. i have a 50/50 win percentage with all 3 races. Its just the league i do it in with Terran has a different logo. I don't care. i'm not 12 years old... i can get over losing a video game to a player who might "technically" be slightly worse than me and beatable with a different race. I never understood the Terran need high APM thing, as a plat player, Diamon in hots with terran I feel the opposite, I like Terran because it dosen't need high amp (at least at my level) I hardly go over the 120 APM in average playing bio, I hate liberator because it is to much amp. For me Protoss seem impossible with all the casting to do it feel it need a lot more APM even more in LOTV, Zerg is just to much apm to macro for me with the injects. Zerg is just easier. Its the same for Brood War. Lol. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Please don't talk about brood war at all. Zerg is the easiest race for me and for the group i play with in both SC2 and Brood War. No one has an APM over 150. You can take it leave it do whatever you want with it. it is a fact. However, this is an SC2 thread about feedback. and my feedback is that Zerg is easiest for me to play. Another fact. Show nested quote +i mainly play with other low APM people and we pretty much share the same experience: Zerg is the easiest race to play in both SC2 and Brood War. In Brood War you really have to babysit your terran infantry... and then micro the fuck out of them to make them effective. With Zerg you can just throw your units at the opponent army.. the most you might do is "surround and then attack" Seemed to me like you didn't state it in a way constituting only an opinion or a fact applying solely to you. Furthermore, why don't you call it a personal experience instead of a fact? You can call anything a fact by your standard of measure. Also, why are you sharing your experience of which race is easiest when it only applies at the D-/D level? Not very relevant to a game that revolves around its competitive nature...
you are not fully reading my posts.
1) blizz should balance according to the top level of play and not worry about other players ( stated this several times)
2) within this top level balancing act...however they chose to nerf or buff terran i want weaker Terran air and stronger Terran ground and i've been saying it for months
3) the players i play with are trying their absolute best while we are playing...so they are competitive.
4) Blizzard states "every voice matters" so i'd like to direct them to examine item #2
and so far i like how Blizzard has been handling LotV changes.
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JimmyJRaynor, what a U turn. States opinion like facts. When this is pointed out, he ignores it and pretends he was talking about something else 
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As a Zerg, reverting to 4 larvae injects would be insane. A buff enough in itself to turn the tides, and a return to my mass ling style i always preferred in LOTV/HOTS.
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On May 22 2016 01:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:JimmyJRaynor, what a U turn. States opinion like facts. When this is pointed out, he ignores it and pretends he was talking about something else
nah , you're just not reading my posts completely.
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On May 21 2016 03:53 SNSeigifried wrote:
I would hope blizzard waits for Code A and SSL Challenge to begin before they do any changes because atm the only games in korea have been bo1s from proleague which aren't the best way to judge balance. We also haven't had bo5+ zvp's since the ssl finals so to say zerg is struggling is hard to support since the only zvp after that was losira vs dear which was a huge skill gap. Need to wait and see Dark/Rogue/soO/Solar play :D. Also zerg seems to be doing quite well in the foreign scene with nerchio barely losing to showtime in spring and hydra winning austin. Also note zerg has been in every lotv final since release except the gsl final.
Blizzard has months of testing and data. Why would they want to implement a change midway through a season? If anything, this is the perfect time to change up unit stats. And most probably, that is why they ARE doing it now. How bad would it be if they invoked a balance patch 2 days before a SSL Final? GSL Final? The weekend of DreamHack Austin? DreamHack Tours? Players would be ticked. It makes perfect sense they are making changes at the beginning of a new season.
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i wonder how long they will wait, till this next patch could happen (alltrough its not that clear, what exactly they will change, these points are no numbers). will they wait another gsl season? with the upcomming patch, i think they just have to. but that would mean, that this next patch wont come in the next weeks/months.
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Won't Zerg just use the extra larva to rush to Ultralisks faster? Vs nerfed Liberators?
I'm all for less dependence on Liberators (no fun unit for all races IMO) but Blizzard will have to give something else to fall back to. Granted, I haven't seen fellow Terrans incorporate Ghosts vs Ultralisks much but given that one single point of damage will just straight up cancel Snipe, Ghosts feel a lot more wonky to use against Ultralisks (and Brood Lords).
Which is funny, given that the original Snipe nerf came from that game against Nestea (on Cloud Kingdom I think?) and was aimed to make Snipe useless against Ultralisks and Brood Lords (which it did, along with all other Snipe targets other than Infestor/HT).
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On May 22 2016 04:01 Thezzy wrote:
Granted, I haven't seen fellow Terrans incorporate Ghosts vs Ultralisks much but given that one single point of damage will just straight up cancel Snipe
That is exactly the problem. Fungal ruins your day if you rely on ghosts vs ultras. As do lings and banes.
Tanks are better unsieged vs ultras and sieged vs everything else so that doesn't really work. Thors are really expensive considering how many you'd need to get down the ultras at the rate you want them down. So at the end you settle for liberators or you just try to kill them before Chitinous.
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So anyone knows which weekday blizz usually releases patches? "Next week" is not very specific.
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On May 22 2016 05:07 JayuSC2 wrote:
So anyone knows which weekday blizz usually releases patches? "Next week" is not very specific.
Tuesdays
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Protoss learned to play with a garbage chrono, but what's on table is giving back de +1 larva. Right....
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Yeeaaahhh, I don't think David should listen to Kespa pros anymore. +1 larva per inject? Are they freaking nuts?
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A Liberator nerf should be compensated with a tank buff and a Tankivac removal (or nerf) to further encourage tank based play which is the funnest style to watch from Terran at least in my opinion. It's a shit load more fun then mass Liberators that's pretty safe to say.
Warp Prism nerf ridiculously long over due, make it cost gas at the very least for Christ's sake anytime a Protoss loses the first question to be asked is, "Did he use Prism harass? No? Well..why not?".
Larvae buff isn't going to happen, David isn't going to put that one in, I'd bet money on it.
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On May 22 2016 00:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 22:35 B-royal wrote:On May 21 2016 17:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 21 2016 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On May 21 2016 04:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Next Week’s Patch/Map Updates
Split feedback from community and KeSPA pros
We’re seeing another complete split in feedback here. Please let us know if we’re wrong about what the major community feedback is regarding Terran, but what we’re seeing is that our community thinks Terran is the weakest race right now. From another angle, we received KeSPA feedback that said Terran is the strongest, Protoss is also too strong and need more nerfs than just the Immortal nerf, and that Zerg is the clear weakest and could use major buffs.
I am a Random Diamond player and Terran is my favourite race. Terran is also my worst race even though i love it. Terran is my weakest race BECAUSE my APM is low. You do not need to change the game so that I am better with Terran. I fully accept that Terran can only be played with high APM and I will just struggle along. Just because Terran is weak for me and my old and slow friends doesn't mean the race is weak for everyone. So please just balance the game for the top level players and don't worry about slow guys like me. On May 21 2016 04:04 Kafka777 wrote:
Kespa is probably right about their suggestions and obviously they are interested in keeping the game balanced and competitive. They want balance around highest level of game play. It would be silly to balance it around low tier players, that would cause a need to issue balance patches every two weeks. i agree. i have a 50/50 win percentage with all 3 races. Its just the league i do it in with Terran has a different logo. I don't care. i'm not 12 years old... i can get over losing a video game to a player who might "technically" be slightly worse than me and beatable with a different race. I never understood the Terran need high APM thing, as a plat player, Diamon in hots with terran I feel the opposite, I like Terran because it dosen't need high amp (at least at my level) I hardly go over the 120 APM in average playing bio, I hate liberator because it is to much amp. For me Protoss seem impossible with all the casting to do it feel it need a lot more APM even more in LOTV, Zerg is just to much apm to macro for me with the injects. Zerg is just easier. Its the same for Brood War. Lol. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Please don't talk about brood war at all. Zerg is the easiest race for me and for the group i play with in both SC2 and Brood War. No one has an APM over 150. You can take it leave it do whatever you want with it. it is a fact. However, this is an SC2 thread about feedback. and my feedback is that Zerg is easiest for me to play. Another fact.
It always depends on the meta and the playstyle of the moment though. Roach Ravager is easier, but its strength has diminished lately so it's less playable, and muta ling bane is actually way much harder with respect to HOTS since the nerf of larva and the liberator counter.
At the period of time where mech was strong, I would say that this playstyle was the easiest of the game, I have played high master terrans with less than 50 APM. They just did nothing, turtling, and it was just about being patient.
On May 22 2016 00:46 DomeGetta wrote:
This feedback really doesn't seem legit based on what we just saw in the PL finals.
15 games - 3 Terrans fielded and 1 victory.
Why would you not field the strongest race?
Well.... Zerg didn't win a single ZvP out of 7 games though. Actually, the only one winning against a Protoss was Maru.
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On May 22 2016 04:07 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2016 04:01 Thezzy wrote:
Granted, I haven't seen fellow Terrans incorporate Ghosts vs Ultralisks much but given that one single point of damage will just straight up cancel Snipe That is exactly the problem. Fungal ruins your day if you rely on ghosts vs ultras. As do lings and banes. Tanks are better unsieged vs ultras and sieged vs everything else so that doesn't really work. Thors are really expensive considering how many you'd need to get down the ultras at the rate you want them down. So at the end you settle for liberators or you just try to kill them before Chitinous.
Yea and that's the reason that having already nerfed liberators air damage is a bit bad, since we NEED liberators for late game.
They are our only chance, and if they are less effective against corruptors and if we need more vikings, which are very easy to be kill by fungals ( vikings need to be stacked to focus on one target so one or two fungals and we lose everything ) we won't have any liberators to deal with ultras.
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I'd agree with the WP nerf. But the game is becoming very stale for me, please bring mech back and do something about Tankvacs.
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On May 22 2016 07:31 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2016 00:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 21 2016 22:35 B-royal wrote:On May 21 2016 17:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 21 2016 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On May 21 2016 04:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Next Week’s Patch/Map Updates
Split feedback from community and KeSPA pros
We’re seeing another complete split in feedback here. Please let us know if we’re wrong about what the major community feedback is regarding Terran, but what we’re seeing is that our community thinks Terran is the weakest race right now. From another angle, we received KeSPA feedback that said Terran is the strongest, Protoss is also too strong and need more nerfs than just the Immortal nerf, and that Zerg is the clear weakest and could use major buffs.
I am a Random Diamond player and Terran is my favourite race. Terran is also my worst race even though i love it. Terran is my weakest race BECAUSE my APM is low. You do not need to change the game so that I am better with Terran. I fully accept that Terran can only be played with high APM and I will just struggle along. Just because Terran is weak for me and my old and slow friends doesn't mean the race is weak for everyone. So please just balance the game for the top level players and don't worry about slow guys like me. On May 21 2016 04:04 Kafka777 wrote:
Kespa is probably right about their suggestions and obviously they are interested in keeping the game balanced and competitive. They want balance around highest level of game play. It would be silly to balance it around low tier players, that would cause a need to issue balance patches every two weeks. i agree. i have a 50/50 win percentage with all 3 races. Its just the league i do it in with Terran has a different logo. I don't care. i'm not 12 years old... i can get over losing a video game to a player who might "technically" be slightly worse than me and beatable with a different race. I never understood the Terran need high APM thing, as a plat player, Diamon in hots with terran I feel the opposite, I like Terran because it dosen't need high amp (at least at my level) I hardly go over the 120 APM in average playing bio, I hate liberator because it is to much amp. For me Protoss seem impossible with all the casting to do it feel it need a lot more APM even more in LOTV, Zerg is just to much apm to macro for me with the injects. Zerg is just easier. Its the same for Brood War. Lol. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Please don't talk about brood war at all. Zerg is the easiest race for me and for the group i play with in both SC2 and Brood War. No one has an APM over 150. You can take it leave it do whatever you want with it. it is a fact. However, this is an SC2 thread about feedback. and my feedback is that Zerg is easiest for me to play. Another fact. It always depends on the meta and the playstyle of the moment though. Roach Ravager is easier, but its strength has diminished lately so it's less playable, and muta ling bane is actually way much harder with respect to HOTS since the nerf of larva and the liberator counter. At the period of time where mech was strong, I would say that this playstyle was the easiest of the game, I have played high master terrans with less than 50 APM. They just did nothing, turtling, and it was just about being patient. .
no the easiest playstyle is turtling to ultras. The zergs do nothing the entire game, get ultras and amove across the map
-don't comment on the difficulty of a playstyle when you've never played it. I played bio and mech both 50% of the time in HotS and found bio slightly easier to play since it mostly relies on good mechanics whereas with mech you need extremely good positioning and gamesense and you can instantly lose a game you have completely dominated for 20 minutes when you fuck up your positioning one time.
it's also far harder to close out a game when you're ahead.
there is a reason why nobody could make it work as good as INnoVation.
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Last game between Dark and TY during cross finals with supreme air late game and before the nerf liberator patch show us that is totally wrong to nerf liberator air attack.
Range has already been nerfed, air attack is about to be nerfed and now you are talking to nerf ground attack as well...
That's insane...
Or get back old ghost snipe, better tanks, revert marauder nerf because we do not have any solution against late game zerg.
I do not talk about protoss, warp prism nerf and immortal nerfs should fix a bit things because the match ups were fucked up both pvz and pvt.
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On May 22 2016 21:11 bObA wrote:
Last game between Dark and TY during cross finals with supreme air late game and before the nerf liberator patch show us that is totally wrong to nerf liberator air attack.
Range has already been nerfed, ari attack and now you are talking to nerf ground attack as well...
That's insane...
Or get back old ghost snipe, better tanks, revert marauder nerf because we do not have any solution against late game zerg.
I do not talk about protoss, warp prism nerf and immortal nerfs should fix a bit things because the match ups were fucked up both pvz and pvt.
To be able to go straight into skyterran is wrong to begin with. Just watched the game, and I'm glad it doesn't work at high level. It'd be like a protoss going straight skytoss in PvZ, and winning the game.
So I really don't mind this style going down the drain with the patch.
What I do mind however is that skyterran in TvZ was the only other/alternate terran composition we could see. Bio tankivacs and bio liberator in every matchup is getting old very rapidly.
Sad thing is that the patch won't change anything about it. Thors won't have a purpose since they're doing what the liberator and viking are doing, but less effectively, and that no one will be retarded enough to invest 4 pop into 120hps except for allin strats.
So be happy, at least 6 more months of bio tankivacs and/or bio liberators in every single matchup, yaaaay.
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EPT
