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On April 21 2016 20:55 Pr0wler wrote:
Life ruined his entire life for 62k dollars. What an idiot. Damnatio memoriae... this is what he deserves.
Well, at least the forces of good won at the end.
Kid's 18 and probably did not even graduate high school, i mean not to be rude but he is not exactly a rocket scientist when it comes to anything that isn't sc2.
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On April 21 2016 21:04 Incognoto wrote:I personally don't want to hear from either player. I want the Korean scene to be strong, have lots of events, lots of strong players and strong teams (like SKT and Jinair) who compete to the best of their ability in cool events like GSL, SSL, Proleague and KeSPA Cups. Between Blizzard stifling Koreans by preventing them from competing in international and open events, as well as some Koreans match-fixing because of easy money, the outlook for Korean players is just a little bleak right now. What are sponsors even thinking right now? What are fans and viewers thinking? What are other professionals thinking? It's just a disgusting situation all around. @Otherworld
Thanks
On April 21 2016 21:27 shid0x wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 20:55 Pr0wler wrote:
Life ruined his entire life for 62k dollars. What an idiot. Damnatio memoriae... this is what he deserves.
Well, at least the forces of good won at the end.
Kid's 18 and probably did not even graduate high school, i mean not to be rude but he is not exactly a rocket scientist when it comes to anything that isn't sc2.
I'll add that 62K is like 15% of his lifelong earnings, that's big
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The mere fact that throwing matches pays 7 times more than WINNING the entire tournament is a huge problem. This is likely not an isolated incident.
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I wonder how much actual match-fixing happens in Korea that we just know nothing about.
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Proving a match-fix is really sketchy.
First, the prosecutor must prove the intentional lose at that particular match.
Second, the prosecutor must prove the intention or purpose of the progamer, to actually throw the match.
Third, the prosecutor must prove, if the purpose was money, that the progamer involved actually recieved the money.
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
On the other hand, if during the investigation is proved that the progamer was forced to matchfix, either by force on him or his family, the progamer should be absolved.
Confession is not a valid proof in the civilized criminal law systems (don't know if in SK the confession is a valid proof).
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations.
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On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations.
You have proof he's innocent? Pretty sure the prosecutors had enough evidence to legitimately say he was guilty, even back in January when they arrested him they said he received money for it. >_>
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On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Proving a match-fix is really sketchy.
First, the prosecutor must prove the intentional lose at that particular match.
Second, the prosecutor must prove the intention or purpose of the progamer, to actually throw the match.
Third, the prosecutor must prove, if the purpose was money, that the progamer involved actually recieved the money.
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
On the other hand, if during the investigation is proved that the progamer was forced to matchfix, either by force on him or his family, the progamer should be absolved.
Confession is not a valid proof in the civilized criminal law systems (don't know if in SK the confession is a valid proof).
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations.
Uh? I mean I like Life a lot, but :
(1) I'm not expert in Law, don't get me wrong, but technically isn't "losing on purpose" (so, only your "First") considered as "matchfixing", since you are intentionally affecting the outcome of a game instead of playing to your full capacities?
(2) How can you assess that Life is innocent out of thin air? I mean I can understand the bit about a good lawyer, but how do you think you know for sure that he's innocent?
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On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Proving a match-fix is really sketchy.
First, the prosecutor must prove the intentional lose at that particular match.
Second, the prosecutor must prove the intention or purpose of the progamer, to actually throw the match.
Third, the prosecutor must prove, if the purpose was money, that the progamer involved actually recieved the money.
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
On the other hand, if during the investigation is proved that the progamer was forced to matchfix, either by force on him or his family, the progamer should be absolved.
Confession is not a valid proof in the civilized criminal law systems (don't know if in SK the confession is a valid proof).
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations.
Welcome in the first stage of getting over it: Denial
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I always liked life, from the ZeNEX days...The first ever royal roader in sc2...the denial of mvp's G5L.
But it's really disappointing that its come to this. Life, you stupid boy.
Greed and money are two very dangerous things for young people...
The confirmation of this leaves me feeling like the day I learnt of my Childhood hero's involvement in Cricket Match-Fixing.
Bbyong, it could have been assumed but not spoken about that he was implicated in all of this based on his "medical issues" without any release fromthe team. I feel really bad for the CJ guys though. I'm sure this situation has impacted and translated in part to their horrid proleague season 
I'm glad he had the conscience to hand himself in though, at least he's on the path to redemption.
I'm curious... is Rekrul going to make an appearance in this thread?
His ambiguous one-liners in Jan/Feb alluded to this and more....back then it was almost as if he had very conclusive evidence that this day was to come...
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Anyways, Life is innocent.
On what basis? Everything presented in the report suggests that he agreed to matchfix on his own volition, which makes him the opposite of innocent.
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To think that even something like this happens to players on a prominent team like KT, worries me.
This just sucks on so many levels, Life is for me the greatest of all time and now he becomes this name we cannot even mention when discussing Starcraft.
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On April 21 2016 21:44 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Proving a match-fix is really sketchy.
First, the prosecutor must prove the intentional lose at that particular match.
Second, the prosecutor must prove the intention or purpose of the progamer, to actually throw the match.
Third, the prosecutor must prove, if the purpose was money, that the progamer involved actually recieved the money.
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
On the other hand, if during the investigation is proved that the progamer was forced to matchfix, either by force on him or his family, the progamer should be absolved.
Confession is not a valid proof in the civilized criminal law systems (don't know if in SK the confession is a valid proof).
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations. Uh? I mean I like Life a lot, but : (1) I'm not expert in Law, don't get me wrong, but technically isn't "losing on purpose" (so, only your "First") considered as "matchfixing", since you are intentionally affecting the outcome of a game instead of playing to your full capacities? (2) How can you assess that Life is innocent out of thin air? I mean I can understand the bit about a good lawyer, but how do you think you know for sure that he's innocent?
Well, technically, depends on the exact redaction of the norm that punishes the match-fix, but every crime requires the will of the agent to commit the said crime. So, in the match-fix case, the prosecutor is obliged to prove that the match throwed was intentional.
About Life being innocent, he was accused of a crime, not being declared guilty. Thus, he is innocent unless a tribunal declares him guilty.
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On April 21 2016 21:45 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Proving a match-fix is really sketchy.
First, the prosecutor must prove the intentional lose at that particular match.
Second, the prosecutor must prove the intention or purpose of the progamer, to actually throw the match.
Third, the prosecutor must prove, if the purpose was money, that the progamer involved actually recieved the money.
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
On the other hand, if during the investigation is proved that the progamer was forced to matchfix, either by force on him or his family, the progamer should be absolved.
Confession is not a valid proof in the civilized criminal law systems (don't know if in SK the confession is a valid proof).
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations. Welcome in the first stage of getting over it: Denial
No denial, that was my opinion as a lawyer.
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Apoteosis, are you talking about the idea that Life is innocent until proven guilty?
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On April 21 2016 21:48 ejozl wrote:
To think that even something like this happens to players on a prominent team like KT, worries me.
This just sucks on so many levels, Life is for me the greatest of all time and now he becomes this name we cannot even mention when discussing Starcraft.
KT had a player involved in the matchfixing scandal in BW, as did other prominent teams like CJ and STX. It's nothing new sadly. Just a shame Life had to drag Afreeca down with him by initiating that trade that cost them Leenock.
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On April 21 2016 21:50 Apoteosis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 21:44 OtherWorld wrote:On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
Proving a match-fix is really sketchy.
First, the prosecutor must prove the intentional lose at that particular match.
Second, the prosecutor must prove the intention or purpose of the progamer, to actually throw the match.
Third, the prosecutor must prove, if the purpose was money, that the progamer involved actually recieved the money.
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
On the other hand, if during the investigation is proved that the progamer was forced to matchfix, either by force on him or his family, the progamer should be absolved.
Confession is not a valid proof in the civilized criminal law systems (don't know if in SK the confession is a valid proof).
Anyways, Life is innocent. I actually think that if he hires a good criminal lawyer, he has a good chance of getting away from the accusations. Uh? I mean I like Life a lot, but : (1) I'm not expert in Law, don't get me wrong, but technically isn't "losing on purpose" (so, only your "First") considered as "matchfixing", since you are intentionally affecting the outcome of a game instead of playing to your full capacities? (2) How can you assess that Life is innocent out of thin air? I mean I can understand the bit about a good lawyer, but how do you think you know for sure that he's innocent? Well, technically, depends on the exact redaction of the norm that punishes the match-fix, but every crime requires the will of the agent to commit the said crime. So, in the match-fix case, the prosecutor is obliged to prove that the match throwed was intentional. About Life being innocent, he was accused of a crime, not being declared guilty. Thus, he is innocent unless a tribunal declares him guilty.
Ah ok, I thought you were assessing that he is innocent in an absolute sense.
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On April 21 2016 21:39 Apoteosis wrote:
And finally, the prosecutor must prove that the match throwed, effectively damaged the e-sports scene.
I fail to see this being necessary for the prosecutor to prove. I guess this would be necessary in case of civil charges for compensation for the damage to the scene, but proving the criminal offense of matchfixing in itself shouldn't require evidence that the scene was damaged.
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Poland3754 Posts
Reading about such prominent players match fixing I regret I followed SC2 and I'm happy I don't do anymore - would be even more heart broken. I wonder if Life match fixing is similar to sAviOr match fixing in SC:BW (perhaps a bit different as we knew about sAviOr when following Life but sAviOr was first).
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In retrospect the Life vs Dream game looks pretty blatant, losing drones, lings and a queen like that while there's nothing else to do. As for the vs Terminator games, I think it's the first game, as you can see his breathing is identical to vs Dream while being different from vs Terminator G3.
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EPT
