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On April 16 2016 17:49 Avi-Love wrote:
Unfortunately people here are still completely out of touch with the game, parasitic bomb is not imbalance, nor does it have 0 counterplay - atm, good terran players win late game tvz if they get close to max on air armies/ghosts/etc, it's not even debatable.
I think you missed avilo's point. The bulk of all players resides in Gold League or lower, these players are the foundation of this game.
These players can't split like Van Damme and EMP all the Vipers at the same time. They simply lose their complete airforce in 10 seconds. It is not only parasitic bomb, there are a lot of maneuvers in the game that simply end the game if your reaction is not super fast and crisp but on the other hand these maneuvers are not too hard to execute for your opponent.
These mechanics are the cause of frustrated players leaving the game.
A game can be designed such that pro players can distinguish themselves and at the same time the tiniest mistake in lower leagues does not cause the obliteration of the whole army you spent 20 minutes to build up. Unfortunately, SC2 is not such a game.
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Austria24417 Posts
Much, much better stuff than last week. I'd like colossi to be useful in one way or another at least, rather than keep them in their current state.
One thing though: protoss don't open pheonix because of drops, they open phoenix because no other opening lives vs all ins while being economically strong enough.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
On April 16 2016 19:43 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 19:27 JackONeill wrote:On April 16 2016 13:09 H0i wrote:
I think this community update shows the issue clearly.
The community in general wants the game to change, and change a lot in design. Fixing all kinds of design problems with for example protoss, buffing underused units more actively, quality of life patches, etc.
David Kim / Blizzard want to keep the game about the same, and apply some miniscule, minor changes, maybe once upon a time, in order to 'fix balance'.
DK sees the game as a 99% finished product. The community sees it as maybe half finished. This is the cause of all the disconnect between the community and blizzard/DK. => this exactly. But then again, I don't understand how blizzard can be so oblivious to the community's wishes. And if they know what the community wants, why the fuck are they stalling for time? And in general the game is finished. It's their game and their designs. They pushed them into a beta, they made some smaller and bigger changes to their ideas and they released an expansion. Job done, everything else is maintenance.
That's not what blizzard said during the beta and pre-launch. There was a big emphasis on getting the game to a relatively stable point in mid beta and then continuing to iterate quickly post-launch, which didn't happen.
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Problem is that just before beta they were still making a series of patch changes, but as soon as beta finished, they declared job done. It very much still feels like the game was released early with lots of odd abilities and units to sort out.
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On April 16 2016 20:07 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 19:43 Big J wrote:On April 16 2016 19:27 JackONeill wrote:On April 16 2016 13:09 H0i wrote:
I think this community update shows the issue clearly.
The community in general wants the game to change, and change a lot in design. Fixing all kinds of design problems with for example protoss, buffing underused units more actively, quality of life patches, etc.
David Kim / Blizzard want to keep the game about the same, and apply some miniscule, minor changes, maybe once upon a time, in order to 'fix balance'.
DK sees the game as a 99% finished product. The community sees it as maybe half finished. This is the cause of all the disconnect between the community and blizzard/DK. => this exactly. But then again, I don't understand how blizzard can be so oblivious to the community's wishes. And if they know what the community wants, why the fuck are they stalling for time? And in general the game is finished. It's their game and their designs. They pushed them into a beta, they made some smaller and bigger changes to their ideas and they released an expansion. Job done, everything else is maintenance. That's not what blizzard said during the beta and pre-launch. There was a big emphasis on getting the game to a relatively stable point in mid beta and then continuing to iterate quickly post-launch, which didn't happen.
Corporate language. They always put some words and phrases into it along the lines "if necessary", "changes to make the best starcraft possible", "stay active" and all that stuff.
Basically, they always have backdoors to argue that nothing is necessary, that they already created the best starcraft and that they are actively watching. Also they gave no timeline for changes at all and pretty openly said that they are confident in the game version they are releasing.
Maybe someday they will do an expansion-ish patch, but until blizzcon this year we are going to play this game version with minimum balance patching and that was always pretty crystal clear.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
On April 16 2016 20:40 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 20:07 Cyro wrote:On April 16 2016 19:43 Big J wrote:On April 16 2016 19:27 JackONeill wrote:On April 16 2016 13:09 H0i wrote:
I think this community update shows the issue clearly.
The community in general wants the game to change, and change a lot in design. Fixing all kinds of design problems with for example protoss, buffing underused units more actively, quality of life patches, etc.
David Kim / Blizzard want to keep the game about the same, and apply some miniscule, minor changes, maybe once upon a time, in order to 'fix balance'.
DK sees the game as a 99% finished product. The community sees it as maybe half finished. This is the cause of all the disconnect between the community and blizzard/DK. => this exactly. But then again, I don't understand how blizzard can be so oblivious to the community's wishes. And if they know what the community wants, why the fuck are they stalling for time? And in general the game is finished. It's their game and their designs. They pushed them into a beta, they made some smaller and bigger changes to their ideas and they released an expansion. Job done, everything else is maintenance. That's not what blizzard said during the beta and pre-launch. There was a big emphasis on getting the game to a relatively stable point in mid beta and then continuing to iterate quickly post-launch, which didn't happen. Corporate language. They always put some words and phrases into it along the lines "if necessary", "changes to make the best starcraft possible", "stay active" and all that stuff. Basically, they always have backdoors to argue that nothing is necessary, that they already created the best starcraft and that they are actively watching. Also they gave no timeline for changes at all and pretty openly said that they are confident in the game version they are releasing. Maybe someday they will do an expansion-ish patch, but until blizzcon this year we are going to play this game version with minimum balance patching and that was always pretty crystal clear.
And people wonder why some of us are cynical
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I didn't exactly understand why buffs in general would help the game development more and better than nerfs. Is it cause they assume that users can deal with them better mentally?
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On April 16 2016 13:24 avilo wrote:
So no banshee buff now arbitrarily after saying they'd buff it?
So basically, blizzard keeps announcing they'll change something with the game, then announce after that they are thinking about what to do with the change, then announce they'll do a map, then they announce they actually won't bother testing/patching the game and they will do a different change...
-> rinse repeat that cycle and they don't ever actually do any patch changes to SC2.
And people wonder why a lot of the SC2 community is mad/fed up with blizzard's non-patching of this game.
I just want to add an anecdote from my stream today about why people are leaving this game (and yes they are, it's the reality of the developers not listening to people in the community):
I was coaching a player live on stream today, he was playing a TvZ game. As the game was continuing to a certain point he had a maxed army of mech and libs and his opponent had a maxed army of corruptor viper etc.
His opponent clicked on 7 liberators with parasitic bomb and my student and myself are just basically in disbelief that there's no counter play or anything you can do to stop this thing - it just happens and you lose.
I told my student outright "i can't really give you advice on this one, there's no counterplay available, you just basically lose the units if you don't somehow EMP every single viper before the fight starts."
My student was in gold/plat/diamond. Imagine the amount of games on ladder right now where similar things are happening with invincible nydus worms being spawned in a player's base and they are autolosing because it's untargettable. Do you guys really think people will want to play the game much longer?
How much longer are these things with SC2 going to be ignored and not patched? It's ludicrous that our entire community is not up in arms over gimmicky bullshit like invincible nydus, adept/warp prism, mass liberator, para bomb, 8 armor ultra still remaining in this game.
Casters can say as much as they want "this is so fun to watch SC2 is the best game evar!" in their casts but the fact is it might be fun for them and some elitist SC2 players to watch, but for the people playing the game it's an entirely different F word - FRUSTRATING.
Please everyone urge the developers to do an entire sweep over all of the infuriating aspects currently in SC2 before they sit here and say they are patching while putting out empty words and doing no changes for MONTHS.
Things blizzard needs to do a balance sweep over:
-8 armor ultra
-marauder split attack revert
-collosus revert/buff
-parasitic bomb removal
-liberator nerf
-pylon cannon why is this in the game it's stupidity and worse than nexus cannon ever was
-all air units nerfed in supply to avoid mass air non-sense
-nydus worm reverted to HOTS, price reduced perhaps
-MECH VIABILITY every game currently is 100% bio + mass lib/ghost, needs to be addressed asap not years later
-adept/warp prism - needs nerfs on shade cooldown/warp prism pick-up range, infuriating to play against
-overall Protoss changes to design to make the race less infuriating to play against
-swarm hosts so useless pros and myself unbound the hotkey or kill any one we make by accident
-reaper grenades need to be removed from the game, it's just gimmicky all-in promotion, not skill
-tier 1 overlord drop this does not belong on tier 1, it just promotes coinflips and more all-ins
-cyclones being one of the most garbage units in the game, right behind swarmhosts
-a ton more i probably left out of the list that people can point out
Look at all of those issues - none addressed, blizzard not willing to patch them, or ignoring them. Meanwhile, we have announcements of announcements of possible changes, possible test maps, then announcements to announce they decided not to do anything, that they're buffing banshee speed arbitrarily, then not doing it now arbitrarily while ignoring all of the really bad things in the game =/
It's really disheartening. Speak up or forever hold your peace SC2 fans.
I agree 100%. Not sure if Blizzard is destroying their own game on purpose? But why would they do that? What they are doing right now does not really make sense.
The game has several severe problems far beyond balance. All of those problems are fixable, but it seems like Blizzard have no interest in fixing their own game?
Blizzard please focus on making the actual gameplay more varied and less frustrating. Then tweak balance.
Balance does not matter much if the gameplay is not fun.
And please prioritize fun to play over fun to watch.
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On April 16 2016 17:52 Gen.Rolly wrote:
Yes this is off topic, but please make an option for bigger chat text on bnet!
Yes, please! Why is it so small? Why is there no option to make it bigger?
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I really hope they take a look to the Swarm Host, the unit is never used.
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And I thought this game was frustrating back when I stopped in HotS. I keep following the game with the feintest of hopes that some day, it might change and return to being the RTS I loved, only to read weekly community updates that make no logical sense. I feel for you.
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On April 16 2016 03:55 Big J wrote:
Let's go through it step by step:
PvZ build order diversity
Protoss don't open phoenix because of drops and ravagers. If you specifically wanted to just defend those there are better options. But phoenixes are much more all-around, give protoss vital scouting, deter the zerg from mutalisk play to counter immortals, can do a bit of damage to drones, overlords and queens and most of all deter zerg from mutalisk play.
If you nerf drops or ravagers protoss will still play phoenixes.
Also, what about the other races? I want build order diversity in TvP too and not always open with a CC, a starport, a factory and 3 barracks. Same goes for TvZ and TvT... give me more openings than factory/starport/a few rax expansions.
Colossus buff
If you buff this unit it will be used on the prolevel too, in particular in TvP. If you want to buff the colossus for easier splash damage in lower leagues without affecting the prolevel, buff it a bit but nerf its mobility a bit.
Buffs over nerfs
Just do whatever is best. Don't choose a buff over a nerf just because it sells better to the community.
Immortal barrier change
Sounds like an interesting idea.
David Kim, hire this man.
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On April 16 2016 08:51 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 08:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On April 16 2016 08:33 armazingerz1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:14 Charoisaur wrote:On April 16 2016 08:08 armazingerz1 wrote:
The problem with liberators is that's the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to harass in the whole game. They kill some workers very fast, then they stop you from mining for a long time and make you some casualties when trying to kill it. And it's SO easy to produce and use. Nerfing the AA damage won't fix that, I don't think that reducing the reticule would be solution either (because it's hard to deploy them properly while defending), I would go with a range reduction plus a slight rate of fire reduction, so you would lose lesser workers and you would take lesser casualties while killing him. that's one of the misconception non-terran players have. Liberators are far from being little commitment because every liberator is a medivac you didn't make and you have to divide your starport production between medivacs and liberators. Every liberator you lose is huge because if you remake them you probably won't have enough medivacs to sufficiently heal your army and if you don't remake you won't have their zoning potential in your army. That's quite a little commitment if you consider that P and Z players have to build a specific building and air units to deal with it or asume casualties. It's by far the riskless way to harass oh noes! you have to make units to counter stuff. if only lings could fly as well....or wait, a flying ultralisk. so you dont have to build anything else. This is a dumb response to a valid point . Not saying Liberators are imbalanced means you play Terran and you like Liberators being imbalanced. Just like Zergs like to think that Zerg end game isn't OP vs. Terran with the Ultralisk. Liberators are ez mode damage, just like Ultralisks are a move bio stompers. The solution is to nerf Liberator AA capabilities so 25 + Mutalisks don't get a moved by 6 Liberators and remove the extra armor or nerf Chitinous Plating. Oh. and then while they're at it, they can actually do what they said they were going to do with the tanks because in reality nobody besides David thinks that tankivacs is cool and the entire community just wants tanks that do their job better. Boom, there you go, ZvT the best and most balanced match up to watch and play again, problem solved.
I love all you retards that think you can speak for everybody. I fucking love Legacy. I love tankivacs. I main T. I think the Ultra buff is fine.
Plenty of active players are thoroughly enjoying the game.
User was warned for this post
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On April 17 2016 00:40 TronJovolta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 08:51 Beelzebub1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On April 16 2016 08:33 armazingerz1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:14 Charoisaur wrote:On April 16 2016 08:08 armazingerz1 wrote:
The problem with liberators is that's the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to harass in the whole game. They kill some workers very fast, then they stop you from mining for a long time and make you some casualties when trying to kill it. And it's SO easy to produce and use. Nerfing the AA damage won't fix that, I don't think that reducing the reticule would be solution either (because it's hard to deploy them properly while defending), I would go with a range reduction plus a slight rate of fire reduction, so you would lose lesser workers and you would take lesser casualties while killing him. that's one of the misconception non-terran players have. Liberators are far from being little commitment because every liberator is a medivac you didn't make and you have to divide your starport production between medivacs and liberators. Every liberator you lose is huge because if you remake them you probably won't have enough medivacs to sufficiently heal your army and if you don't remake you won't have their zoning potential in your army. That's quite a little commitment if you consider that P and Z players have to build a specific building and air units to deal with it or asume casualties. It's by far the riskless way to harass oh noes! you have to make units to counter stuff. if only lings could fly as well....or wait, a flying ultralisk. so you dont have to build anything else. This is a dumb response to a valid point . Not saying Liberators are imbalanced means you play Terran and you like Liberators being imbalanced. Just like Zergs like to think that Zerg end game isn't OP vs. Terran with the Ultralisk. Liberators are ez mode damage, just like Ultralisks are a move bio stompers. The solution is to nerf Liberator AA capabilities so 25 + Mutalisks don't get a moved by 6 Liberators and remove the extra armor or nerf Chitinous Plating. Oh. and then while they're at it, they can actually do what they said they were going to do with the tanks because in reality nobody besides David thinks that tankivacs is cool and the entire community just wants tanks that do their job better. Boom, there you go, ZvT the best and most balanced match up to watch and play again, problem solved. I love all you retards that think you can speak for everybody. I fucking love Legacy. I love tankivacs. I main T. I think the Ultra buff is fine. Plenty of active players are thoroughly enjoying the game.
i'd ease up on using "retards" to describe these people.. i'd say they are narcissists. that said, i basically agree.
i'm having fun. what i love is the implication that they are somehow smarter. and have a deeper understanding of everything. the guys who've been playing for years and say they've hated the game for years.. they're the best of all!
this is a great game.. Greg Black and David Kim are doing a great job.
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On April 17 2016 00:40 TronJovolta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 08:51 Beelzebub1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On April 16 2016 08:33 armazingerz1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:14 Charoisaur wrote:On April 16 2016 08:08 armazingerz1 wrote:
The problem with liberators is that's the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to harass in the whole game. They kill some workers very fast, then they stop you from mining for a long time and make you some casualties when trying to kill it. And it's SO easy to produce and use. Nerfing the AA damage won't fix that, I don't think that reducing the reticule would be solution either (because it's hard to deploy them properly while defending), I would go with a range reduction plus a slight rate of fire reduction, so you would lose lesser workers and you would take lesser casualties while killing him. that's one of the misconception non-terran players have. Liberators are far from being little commitment because every liberator is a medivac you didn't make and you have to divide your starport production between medivacs and liberators. Every liberator you lose is huge because if you remake them you probably won't have enough medivacs to sufficiently heal your army and if you don't remake you won't have their zoning potential in your army. That's quite a little commitment if you consider that P and Z players have to build a specific building and air units to deal with it or asume casualties. It's by far the riskless way to harass oh noes! you have to make units to counter stuff. if only lings could fly as well....or wait, a flying ultralisk. so you dont have to build anything else. This is a dumb response to a valid point . Not saying Liberators are imbalanced means you play Terran and you like Liberators being imbalanced. Just like Zergs like to think that Zerg end game isn't OP vs. Terran with the Ultralisk. Liberators are ez mode damage, just like Ultralisks are a move bio stompers. The solution is to nerf Liberator AA capabilities so 25 + Mutalisks don't get a moved by 6 Liberators and remove the extra armor or nerf Chitinous Plating. Oh. and then while they're at it, they can actually do what they said they were going to do with the tanks because in reality nobody besides David thinks that tankivacs is cool and the entire community just wants tanks that do their job better. Boom, there you go, ZvT the best and most balanced match up to watch and play again, problem solved. I love all you retards that think you can speak for everybody. I fucking love Legacy. I love tankivacs. I main T. I think the Ultra buff is fine. Plenty of active players are thoroughly enjoying the game.
Everyone has their own opinion, I think tankivacs are stupid and a lot of other people do as well, actually when they where talking about removing it the opinions swinged around 50% for removing/not removing, so don't call people retards for doing something then proced to do the same thing in the very next line.
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On April 17 2016 00:40 TronJovolta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 08:51 Beelzebub1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On April 16 2016 08:33 armazingerz1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:14 Charoisaur wrote:On April 16 2016 08:08 armazingerz1 wrote:
The problem with liberators is that's the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to harass in the whole game. They kill some workers very fast, then they stop you from mining for a long time and make you some casualties when trying to kill it. And it's SO easy to produce and use. Nerfing the AA damage won't fix that, I don't think that reducing the reticule would be solution either (because it's hard to deploy them properly while defending), I would go with a range reduction plus a slight rate of fire reduction, so you would lose lesser workers and you would take lesser casualties while killing him. that's one of the misconception non-terran players have. Liberators are far from being little commitment because every liberator is a medivac you didn't make and you have to divide your starport production between medivacs and liberators. Every liberator you lose is huge because if you remake them you probably won't have enough medivacs to sufficiently heal your army and if you don't remake you won't have their zoning potential in your army. That's quite a little commitment if you consider that P and Z players have to build a specific building and air units to deal with it or asume casualties. It's by far the riskless way to harass oh noes! you have to make units to counter stuff. if only lings could fly as well....or wait, a flying ultralisk. so you dont have to build anything else. This is a dumb response to a valid point . Not saying Liberators are imbalanced means you play Terran and you like Liberators being imbalanced. Just like Zergs like to think that Zerg end game isn't OP vs. Terran with the Ultralisk. Liberators are ez mode damage, just like Ultralisks are a move bio stompers. The solution is to nerf Liberator AA capabilities so 25 + Mutalisks don't get a moved by 6 Liberators and remove the extra armor or nerf Chitinous Plating. Oh. and then while they're at it, they can actually do what they said they were going to do with the tanks because in reality nobody besides David thinks that tankivacs is cool and the entire community just wants tanks that do their job better. Boom, there you go, ZvT the best and most balanced match up to watch and play again, problem solved. I love all you retards that think you can speak for everybody. I fucking love Legacy. I love tankivacs. I main T. I think the Ultra buff is fine. Plenty of active players are thoroughly enjoying the game.
Did I say anywhere that I wasn't enjoying the game? Did I say anywhere that I'm speaking for everyone? Yea, didn't think so. All I was saying is that a few balance problems is making the former greatest match up in the game no longer what it used to be.
So you think the tank sucking at it's originally designed purpose and only being viable through a gimmick ability is the right direction? You think that the Ultralisk a moving through stimmed bio lines is a good move for the game? Okaaay...
Your entitled to your opinions, no matter how asinine they are lol..
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Can someone explain "buff over nerf" to me? I've pondered over its meaning for like three years and I still don't get it. I must be dense.
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Instead of buffing colossus, Blizzard should:
- Reduce build time of carriers
- Increase armour of carriers so that marines don't laugh at them
Now, you may be able to use carriers in late PvT and maybe PvZ, too. It will be a good change because tempests are so bad in PvT, they're only made to counter liberators. Other than that, they're just awful.
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protoss diversity over zerg? lol. how about zerg diversity over protoss...go ling, they go adept, go roach ravager, they go phoenix void/blink, go hydra, they go anything and win, go lurker, they go disruptor. only comp that does decent against toss is corruptor ling, if u survive that long #balance #nigga
User was warned for this post
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On April 17 2016 00:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2016 00:40 TronJovolta wrote:On April 16 2016 08:51 Beelzebub1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:47 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On April 16 2016 08:33 armazingerz1 wrote:On April 16 2016 08:14 Charoisaur wrote:On April 16 2016 08:08 armazingerz1 wrote:
The problem with liberators is that's the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to harass in the whole game. They kill some workers very fast, then they stop you from mining for a long time and make you some casualties when trying to kill it. And it's SO easy to produce and use. Nerfing the AA damage won't fix that, I don't think that reducing the reticule would be solution either (because it's hard to deploy them properly while defending), I would go with a range reduction plus a slight rate of fire reduction, so you would lose lesser workers and you would take lesser casualties while killing him. that's one of the misconception non-terran players have. Liberators are far from being little commitment because every liberator is a medivac you didn't make and you have to divide your starport production between medivacs and liberators. Every liberator you lose is huge because if you remake them you probably won't have enough medivacs to sufficiently heal your army and if you don't remake you won't have their zoning potential in your army. That's quite a little commitment if you consider that P and Z players have to build a specific building and air units to deal with it or asume casualties. It's by far the riskless way to harass oh noes! you have to make units to counter stuff. if only lings could fly as well....or wait, a flying ultralisk. so you dont have to build anything else. This is a dumb response to a valid point . Not saying Liberators are imbalanced means you play Terran and you like Liberators being imbalanced. Just like Zergs like to think that Zerg end game isn't OP vs. Terran with the Ultralisk. Liberators are ez mode damage, just like Ultralisks are a move bio stompers. The solution is to nerf Liberator AA capabilities so 25 + Mutalisks don't get a moved by 6 Liberators and remove the extra armor or nerf Chitinous Plating. Oh. and then while they're at it, they can actually do what they said they were going to do with the tanks because in reality nobody besides David thinks that tankivacs is cool and the entire community just wants tanks that do their job better. Boom, there you go, ZvT the best and most balanced match up to watch and play again, problem solved. I love all you retards that think you can speak for everybody. I fucking love Legacy. I love tankivacs. I main T. I think the Ultra buff is fine. Plenty of active players are thoroughly enjoying the game. i'd ease up on using "retards" to describe these people.. i'd say they are narcissists. that said, i basically agree. i'm having fun. what i love is the implication that they are somehow smarter. and have a deeper understanding of everything. the guys who've been playing for years and say they've hated the game for years.. they're the best of all! this is a great game.. Greg Black and David Kim are doing a great job.
Eh, No. Greg Black was also the reason why Red Alert 3 was a mess balance wise and it had some potential. Maybe he is doing great job with Co-op mode yes but not the multiplayer. In fact SC 2 has similar problems RA 3 had:
- Air Units too strong while Anti-Air is too weak
- Listening too much to the wrong people (In RA 3 they listen too much to noobs,in SC 2 they listen too much to pros)
- One race underpowered compared to the others being too strong
- Overnerfing Units/strategies
Im sure there are more points that I can´t remember now.
And if DK would be doing a good job there wouldn´t be a lot of complains from the playerbase. Sure there are biased played but a large percentage of people are also worth listening too. Look at some Threads on US B.net. While there are a lot of said biased players its also the most active forum. People there are telling the devs they need to stop bufing harass Units, need to focus more on the general playerbase etc.
But a lot of players also got scared off when DK said "the best moments in SC 2 history come from worker harassment" . I think that made a lot of people stop playing SC 2 similar to the Infestor/BL era where a HUGE amount of players lost their faith and their interest in this game.
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EPT
