EPTCommunity Feedback Update - March 24 - Page 6
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PressureSC2
122 Posts
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PressureSC2
122 Posts
I think you solve alot of issues for Terran and the air massing overall if you either make the Thor more manageable (more speed, mobility, maybe a bit smaller for pathing, etc.), or if you focus on the Cyclone instead of the Banshee which many feel will create problems anyhow. If Cyclone or Thor could actually get in range to challenge Tempest/BL - we would see some very interesting exchanges and much more varied games. Maybe protoss transitions out of Tempests, or Zerg make a tech switch after BL, etc. An earlier and somewhat mobile Cyclone might actually make TvT enjoyable again, because you could zone out flying entrenched Artillery drops (lol?) to some degree. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
On March 25 2016 23:08 BaronVonOwn wrote: Zerg has no counter to the liberator. I put 4 liberators (600 mins 600 gas) and 5 corruptors (750/500) into the unit tester, pressed attack and the corruptors lost. WTF David? Is this sarcasm? Spread the corruptors. Or build vipers. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 25 2016 23:08 BaronVonOwn wrote: Zerg has no counter to the liberator. I put 4 liberators (600 mins 600 gas) and 5 corruptors (750/500) into the unit tester, pressed attack and the corruptors lost. WTF David? You need to have Vipers. Also 4 liberators isn't that hard to stop, it's more when they get 15 that you need the vipers. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20323 Posts
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On March 25 2016 23:36 Empirimancer wrote: Is this sarcasm? Spread the corruptors. Or build vipers. No, it's not. The only joke here is liberators. Maybe we've all forgotten what a well-designed RTS looks like. That must be convenient for Blizzard's revenues. Vikings are countered by spore colonies, scourge, hydralisks, and devourers all without imposing a lopsided micro burden on one player. How did they do it (actual sarcasm)? Liberators force zerg to go spire just to keep their base from getting wrecked, because on top of great harassment, an extremely strong ground attack, and very efficient AA trades, liberators are extremely fast and can easily outrun corruptors so just building the faux counter unit doesn't mean you're going to actually kill them. All this from a basic starport unit that can be reactor-pumped. Lol? Now you're saying you need Hive tech and vipers on top of that because there is no 1 single unit that can counter it. QED | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 25 2016 23:08 BaronVonOwn wrote: Zerg has no counter to the liberator. I put 4 liberators (600 mins 600 gas) and 5 corruptors (750/500) into the unit tester, pressed attack and the corruptors lost. WTF David? I put 4 liberators (12 supply) and 5 corruptors (10 supply) into the unit tester and did no micro and the corruptors won. WTF David? If the corruptors are microed that fight isn't even close. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On March 26 2016 03:57 BaronVonOwn wrote: No, it's not. The only joke here is liberators. Maybe we've all forgotten what a well-designed RTS looks like. That must be convenient for Blizzard's revenues. Vikings are countered by spore colonies, scourge, hydralisks, and devourers all without imposing a lopsided micro burden on one player. How did they do it (actual sarcasm)? Liberators force zerg to go spire just to keep their base from getting wrecked, because on top of great harassment, an extremely strong ground attack, and very efficient AA trades, liberators are extremely fast and can easily outrun corruptors so just building the faux counter unit doesn't mean you're going to actually kill them. All this from a basic starport unit that can be reactor-pumped. Lol? Now you're saying you need Hive tech and vipers on top of that because there is no 1 single unit that can counter it. QED At this point I'm pretty sure I'm responding to a troll. For starters you say "Vikings" and then talk about units from Brood War. So I'm not even sure what version of Starcraft we're playing right now. Then we talk about "lopsided micro" like somehow in some universe magic boxing air units became sick micro. Terrans have to split marines versus banes to trade efficiently. The concept of micro or die isn't something unheard of in this game. Then you complain you can't just build hard counters to kill a unit. Which is it? Do you want your pure RTS like Brood Wars which required certain units in low numbers combined with other units to counter or do you want the one finger death punch unit? | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On March 26 2016 04:17 Tenks wrote: For starters you say "Vikings" and then talk about units from Brood War. So I'm not even sure what version of Starcraft we're playing right now. Then we talk about "lopsided micro" like somehow in some universe magic boxing air units became sick micro. Terrans have to split marines versus banes to trade efficiently. The concept of micro or die isn't something unheard of in this game. Then you complain you can't just build hard counters to kill a unit. Which is it? Do you want your pure RTS like Brood Wars which required certain units in low numbers combined with other units to counter or do you want the one finger death punch unit? No, your problem isn't that you're talking to a troll. It's that you have the reading comprehension of a special needs 5th grader and you have no absolutely no fucking clue how Starcraft or strategy games in general work. Apparently, in a discussion of game design I now have to spell out the fact that when I bring up examples from a well-designed game, it is meant to compare and contrast with the present subject and inform conclusions and changes. Seriously are you home-schooled? Is English not your first language? I fear for the future. Also, banelings are a counter unit for marines. Pure marines are not supposed to trade efficiently with banelings. Jesus Christ. No wonder Donald Trump is going to be our next president. User was warned for this post | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
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Marl
United States694 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Ape_Island
29 Posts
Five is good. What do they mean in GM ladder? GM players can drop out to Master's and back into GM often? | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On March 25 2016 14:07 Spyridon wrote: I actually agree on air units in general. Either air should be nerfed globally, or anti air should be buffed globally. Air should never truly be "game enders" except in rare cases that the ground units are able to completely prevent the ground units from getting in range. The biggest niche for Protoss capital ships at the moment is dealing with an excessively defensive opponent. Nerf that and you're encouraging slower games by destroying Protoss' main weapon for fighting overly defensive play. Couple that with Avilo's campaign to "make mech great again" and all you've done is replace the swarmhost era with the mass Thor / tank / planetary era. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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crazedrat
272 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On March 26 2016 04:30 ZackAttack wrote: Am I just being bitter if I am disgusted at how long it has taken to consider showing MMR? It seems like Blizzard is consistently 4-5 years late of obvious changes people have been begging for since release. They already have a huge problem with new player frustration and retention rates. Showing MMR will only make that worse, then again, at this point I think they pretty much gave up about expanding the multiplayer player base. | ||
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Archeon
3262 Posts
On March 26 2016 15:09 crazedrat wrote: Still don't think ovi drop is a good nerf, just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. Would much rather see a mothership core strengthened or just expect people to deal with the drops. If the queen ling drop is such a problem than just change the ovi speed upgrade, make it slower or something. But I don't really see the need for this nerf. Don't screw with drops Honestly the solution should just be to make gateway stronger. Protoss have been begging for that since WoL. It's just retarded that the only way one race can survive a timing is by abusing choke points and the moment they are gone the army can't trade (read: gets annihilated). The MSC is a band-aid fix to begin with and fixes like that can only carry you so far until they feel clunky (which the msc has been from the beginning). I understand where BaronVonOwn is coming from (although he could actually read posts and be nicer about it). The moment a unit that's supposed to be a counter gets countered by the thing that's supposed to be weak to it without any micro involved things get one-sided. If a player micros his countered unit to get an even trade out of it, sure fine. But the micro burden should be on the one who has the weaker composition. Also I'm not an expert in sc1, but from what I could tell in sc1 you countered one unit with one unit. Protoss f.e. got arbiter/carrier to deal with tanks and goons against vultures. They used temps to deal with hydras and massed corsairs against mutas. I agree that mass air should never be the solution. Air has the high mobility advantage, it shouldn't also have an advantage in fights. Goes less for capital ships bc capital ships aren't mobile. | ||
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