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On March 29 2016 13:22 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 05:10 Pseudorandom wrote:On March 29 2016 04:42 MaxTa wrote:
Here are my suggestions for balance :
TERRAN
- Tankivac: Increase delay time on shooting + damage buff to siege (what blizzard talked about for the last 2 months)
- Liberator: 4 supply cost, radius nerf but gets it back with the range upgrade, reduce move speed to 4 (instead of 4.72)
- Thor: new upgrade that requires fusion core and give 15 range in AA (similar to Bw goliath range upgrade)
- Cyclone: Lower cost to 150/75/2, Increase Hp to 150
ZERG
- Ravager: Increase corrosive bile cooldown, Increase morph time to 20 sec (instead of 9 sec Hots time)
- Lurker: Reduce range to 7
- Nydus: Remove invulnerability, decrease cost to 150/100
- Ultra: 6 armor in total (instead of 8)
- Brood lord: 8 supply cost
PROTOSS
- Warp Prism: Increase cost to 200/100
- Phenix: Reduce move speed to 5 (instead of 5.95)
- Voidray: Increase Charge cooldown to 75 sec (instead of 60 sec hots time)
- Tempest: 6 supply cost
- Carrier: 8 supply cost 8 supply broods? 8 supply carriers? Excluding everything else, these should not happen at the least. No one is going to waste 24 supply to have 3 broods. With those changes Immortal/archon/charge zealot composition would be even more difficult for zerg to beat. At this point they often walk trough even heavy lurker lines. You would need to nerf immortals quite heavily to compensate for those nerfs.
Nah, you missed that he included a nerf to Phoenix to be notably slower than Mutalisks (which have a speed of 5.6), so Protoss probably just rolls over and dies to any sort of Muta play.
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So they will show MMR now instead of 5 years ago when I actually cared ...
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On March 29 2016 15:40 Kyadytim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 13:22 RaFox17 wrote:On March 29 2016 05:10 Pseudorandom wrote:On March 29 2016 04:42 MaxTa wrote:
Here are my suggestions for balance :
TERRAN
- Tankivac: Increase delay time on shooting + damage buff to siege (what blizzard talked about for the last 2 months)
- Liberator: 4 supply cost, radius nerf but gets it back with the range upgrade, reduce move speed to 4 (instead of 4.72)
- Thor: new upgrade that requires fusion core and give 15 range in AA (similar to Bw goliath range upgrade)
- Cyclone: Lower cost to 150/75/2, Increase Hp to 150
ZERG
- Ravager: Increase corrosive bile cooldown, Increase morph time to 20 sec (instead of 9 sec Hots time)
- Lurker: Reduce range to 7
- Nydus: Remove invulnerability, decrease cost to 150/100
- Ultra: 6 armor in total (instead of 8)
- Brood lord: 8 supply cost
PROTOSS
- Warp Prism: Increase cost to 200/100
- Phenix: Reduce move speed to 5 (instead of 5.95)
- Voidray: Increase Charge cooldown to 75 sec (instead of 60 sec hots time)
- Tempest: 6 supply cost
- Carrier: 8 supply cost 8 supply broods? 8 supply carriers? Excluding everything else, these should not happen at the least. No one is going to waste 24 supply to have 3 broods. With those changes Immortal/archon/charge zealot composition would be even more difficult for zerg to beat. At this point they often walk trough even heavy lurker lines. You would need to nerf immortals quite heavily to compensate for those nerfs. Nah, you missed that he included a nerf to Phoenix to be notably slower than Mutalisks (which have a speed of 5.6), so Protoss probably just rolls over and dies to any sort of Muta play.
So the answer to Immortal/archon/charge is to go muta´s and not use lurkers any more? That would be terrible design. Now we don´t really see mutas because of phoenix and this would just possibly make muta/corruptor OP or the only viable option.
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Nah, you missed that he included a nerf to Phoenix to be notably slower than Mutalisks (which have a speed of 5.6), so Protoss probably just rolls over and dies to any sort of Muta play
Mutas have 5.6 and I'm sugesting lowering phoenix to around 5.4. I think this would greatly improve PvP (instead of putting oracle armored) and mutas would still easily be countered with the phoenix range upgrade (that no one even bothers to get most of the time) Also, medivacs would be able to evade when boosting (T currently has no way to evade and all harass gets shut down as soon as phoenix are out) I really do think protoss air overall is a little too strong and easy to do and I can see future PvP only being stargate wars if nothing is done...
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On March 29 2016 23:20 MaxTa wrote:
and mutas would still easily be countered with the phoenix range upgrade (that no one even bothers to get most of the time)
um, what?
everyone gets phoenix range any time they go above 5-6 phoenix... like phoenix vs phoenix or phoenix vs mass muta... why would anyone ever NOT get it? you dont get it vs muta is if its only a small number of muta and zerg is transitioning, which is more common, but if zerg ever goes mass muta its necessary
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um, what?
everyone gets phoenix range any time they go above 5-6 phoenix... like phoenix vs phoenix or phoenix vs mass muta... why would anyone ever NOT get it?
Honestly in pvz with their current speed you don't even have to until late mid-game at least. Also, getting 4-5 pheonix should not shut down muta play for good like it is doing right now. Countering mutas should be a mix of phoenix with stalkers blink, canons for defense and even archons but right now you don't even need that... And like I said I'm seeing the future of PvP being phoenix wars basically...
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On March 29 2016 23:31 MaxTa wrote:Show nested quote +um, what?
everyone gets phoenix range any time they go above 5-6 phoenix... like phoenix vs phoenix or phoenix vs mass muta... why would anyone ever NOT get it? Honestly in pvz with their current speed you don't even have to until mid-game at least. Also, getting 4-5 pheonix should not shut down muta play for good like it is doing right now. Countering mutas should be a mix of phoenix with blink stalkers, canons for defense and even archons but right now you don't even need that... And like I said I'm seeing future PvP being phoenix wars basically...
I think 5-6 pheonix shutting down mutas is fine. You can still trade with those numbers, as zerg. It just forces zerg to make units other than mutas, which in turn forces the protoss to make units other than pheonix.
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On March 29 2016 05:29 tokinho wrote:
Also, as far as ravager balance. The biggest issue is not ravager damage. It's the ability to choose between, burrow, nydus, lurker, mutas, ling drops, or ravagers when the units are already across the map. There is no commitment to the unit until morphing and it kills many openers if you don't prepare for it. I don't understand why there isn't a ravager den in the game like a lurker den. This could be used to allow more scouting, fine tune upgrades for the unit, and keep all the great features that ravagers have. It would bring back much more stabilty to PvZ with forge openers. (that could be bypassed by ling drops if you skip the cannon in the main.) Why this options isn't being discussed is confusing? Did the koreans say it was a bad idea? As far as the ones i'm talked to they all agree its a good idea, similar to the oracle changes proposed.
The ravager is the way it is so that zerg has at least one early game threat and I don't think it should be changed. They're fun to use and they're needed to help deal with liberators as well. But I could easily part with invulnerable nydus worms and the overlord drop change.
I get that workers shouldn't be able to stop nydus worms. But a more reasonable solution would be to buff their armor/HP instead of giving them straight-up invulnerability. They could have a high armor value like 4 only while morphing and workers would literally be doing 1 damage to them. After morph they might have like 250 HP and 2 armor. I always felt like nydus worms were too fragile but invulnerability as a solution is pretty gross.
As for overlord drops... Honestly just put this back to lair. If you want to buff overlord drops I have a question: why are speed upgraded overlords as slow as a high templar or a thor, in fact much slower than workers, whereas terran and protoss transports are some of the fastest units in the game?
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I think 5-6 pheonix shutting down mutas is fine. You can still trade with those numbers, as zerg. It just forces zerg to make units other than mutas, which in turn forces the protoss to make units other than pheonix.
But spire play is basically gone because of that and instead all we are seing is lurkers because they outrange immortals and even trade with colossus... So P has no other option but to tank up lurker's damage with immortal's shield and charge in with zealots and archons... If mutas become slightly better because they could get saved from phoenix, then we would see more of them to counter zealots/immortals so P would make more stalkers. Also, with a nerf on the range of Lurker, Colossus would be back...
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Carriers are just getting insane now in PvZ
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Regarding mid-season demotions and their pros/cons: just separate season rewards from current ranking.
If a player capped out at Diamond rank 24, let that be their "season high" which gets displayed for bragging rights, even if their current position is Platinum rank 67. No reason to complicate the ranking system and artificially keep players above their actual skill level, just so they can feel good about playing the game without fear of losing their accomplishments. Refusing to allow for fluid movement between leagues has the effect of either:
1. inflating the player % in higher leagues, reducing their value (if league % isn't strictly upheld)
2. locking out players that become more deserving of being in higher leagues (if league % is strictly upheld)
Heck, you could even add on a new reward tier for players that both reach a certain league and are actively part of said league, and allow ranking/mmr decay on inactive players (who still retain their "season best" rewards). For example:
1. Player 1 reached Masters and then stopped playing. He decays back into Diamond, but gets a "season best" of Masters.
2. Player 2 reached Masters and remained active. He gets both "season best" of Masters and an additional reward for ending the season in that league.
Adding decay to inactives removes the old "reach League X and stop playing" mentality caused by mid-season demotion, because you're going to lose it anyway if you stop playing (so, you know, keep playing and don't worry about it -- you got your "season best").
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Don't want to refer to all those changes, but regarding the playerbase, in my opinion StarCraft should just be free to play.
What kind of Pay-Features Blizz's gonna add, could be thought of afterwards.
This step is way more important than any kind of MMR change.
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On March 30 2016 07:42 EXRNaRa wrote:
Don't want to refer to all those changes, but regarding the playerbase, in my opinion StarCraft should just be free to play.
What kind of Pay-Features Blizz's gonna add, could be thought of afterwards.
This step is way more important than any kind of MMR change.
no, it will have too many hackers.
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On March 30 2016 08:03 coolmiyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2016 07:42 EXRNaRa wrote:
Don't want to refer to all those changes, but regarding the playerbase, in my opinion StarCraft should just be free to play.
What kind of Pay-Features Blizz's gonna add, could be thought of afterwards.
This step is way more important than any kind of MMR change. no, it will have too many hackers.
If thats the reason why we have no free to play i could not stop laughing.
In League and CS its managable, and so it would be in SC2.
Thats an hilarious argument tbh.
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The "Apple" side of Blizzard was okay when it had some kind of quality seal. You knew you payed more than for another game, but you were ensured quality. LOTV took a big stinking dump on this concept. I'm not surprised by the playerbase shrinking, and I'm not surprised by the overall lack of hype about Overwatch (unless I missed something massive).
Simple solution for expanding LOTV's playerbase : designing the game to be played ("by the average Joe" can be added, but the first part would already be a big step), and then balance it for the top levels.
I'm still baffled on how WOL introduced so much cool new RTS units. Colossi being able to walk cliffs but are suceptible to AA. Banelings. Roaches. Man, you take BW and WOL, you see some real innovation. You take WOL and LOTV, and you only have your eyes left to cry ("disruptor wow such a good RTS unit wow much good design wow great innovation").
Still preordered the nova mission pack because I'm a massive moron though.
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On March 30 2016 07:42 EXRNaRa wrote:
Don't want to refer to all those changes, but regarding the playerbase, in my opinion StarCraft should just be free to play.
What kind of Pay-Features Blizz's gonna add, could be thought of afterwards.
This step is way more important than any kind of MMR change.
At least make the SC2 multiplayer part F2P and sell single-player-content and skins/sounds.
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They should start by making the Liberator cost 250/150 and 4 supply like a Void Ray. The Liberator should also require a tech-lab to build.
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On March 31 2016 02:25 _Croc wrote:
The Liberator should also require a tech-lab to build.
It's currently the key Terran unit, it keeps the entire race afloat in TvZ late game and TvP in general. But if you can't make it with the same add-on as medivacs it becomes ridiculously bad compared to now even if you don't change its cost or stats.
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On March 31 2016 02:33 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2016 02:25 _Croc wrote:
The Liberator should also require a tech-lab to build. It's currently the key Terran unit, it keeps the entire race afloat in TvZ late game and TvP in general. But if you can't make it with the same add-on as medivacs it becomes ridiculously bad compared to now even if you don't change its cost or stats.
True but this just shows how badly messed up terran is in LOTV. Having one really OP unit propping up an entire sewer full of shit is hardly good design nor should it continue.
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On March 31 2016 02:49 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2016 02:33 Elentos wrote:On March 31 2016 02:25 _Croc wrote:
The Liberator should also require a tech-lab to build. It's currently the key Terran unit, it keeps the entire race afloat in TvZ late game and TvP in general. But if you can't make it with the same add-on as medivacs it becomes ridiculously bad compared to now even if you don't change its cost or stats. True but this just shows how badly messed up terran is in LOTV. Having one really OP unit propping up an entire sewer full of shit is hardly good design nor should it continue.
Mothership core?
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EPT
