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Ej_
47656 Posts
On March 12 2016 14:17 GTR wrote: crossing my fingers the new map pool comes out before round 2 of proleague. PL should just get own maps, such a waste that team that gave us KSS is now left watching games played on Ulrena and Orbital Shipyard | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 12 2016 19:34 Cyro wrote: Either way we have at least one "boring defensive race" by such logic No, for example ZvP : if P defends early drop, then he has agressive options (oracle/dt/warprism/adept), and Zerg defends. But if zerg has not these agressive options, zerg defends, then defends, then defends, then defends, etc... Back to HOTS zerg with swarm host remplaced by lurkers. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Drops or Ravager nerf I still think ravager bile could be so much more interesting with a longer cooldown, damage reduction (with a bonus to bio) and an AOE increase that makes it similar to the tank attack (with a damage reduction as it moves away from the center). Would also help clear two Forcefields with one shot, which was the main selling point of this ability when first introduced. Better players than me are saying that drops are more problematic to begin with tho, so I would listen to them first  Maps Good shit. Cyclone Terrible stats per cost, anything that helps it (either cost reduction or health increase) will be good. Just compare the stats with the mighty liberator to see why this sees no play after the early game. Liberator & Banshee Liberator has needed either a range or damage nerf since forever. It's the most glaring example of an air unit that is way stronger against ground than most anti-air ground units. I'd -1 the base range and switch the range upgrade for something else (like an upgrade that gives it bonus damage against massive). Could also remove the AOE from the anti-air attack (has proven problematic in lategame TvZ) but buff the damage to compensate. Another interesting idea is switching the tech lab requirement (banshee should not require it, liberator should). There's just so many possibilites with the liberator. AA from the factory A cyclone buff should deal with this. Cyclones, thors and widow mines seem plenty good antiair from the factory compared to what other races have. If this were to be a real problem in the future, Thor AA buff could be considered, but these things are just too slow atm to consider building other than to defend against ultras anyway. Giving such a slow unit a really strong AA attack just screams turtle, and I'm sure that is not what people want to see. Mech: I would merge all the nice ideas regarding the tankivac: Make the medivac unable to boost while carrying a sieged tank or thor, give the tank the big cooldown after dropping sieged and boost the tank damage. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On March 12 2016 19:52 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Easier banshee speed is going to be super strong imo This, double banshee is already insane when a good Terran is microing them, they can bully down spores and Queen easily or at the very force minimum 2 spores per base or substantial drone losses will be taken. It's not like Mutalisks are very viable against Starport in general with the Liberator able to be reactored and I think Corruptors are a tad bit too slow to catch the Banshees so I wouldn't be surprised to see a Banshee meta surface again. Speed buff would make them just broken or force Spire play. | ||
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Elentos
55583 Posts
On March 12 2016 20:26 Salteador Neo wrote: Liberator & Banshee I'd -1 the base range and switch the range upgrade for something else (like an upgrade that gives it bonus damage against massive). A buff against massive affects like 1 unit per race and seems like a complete waste of resources on a unit with the DPS of the liberator. Not to mention removing all range upgrades and locking it at 4 removes so much utility as a zoning tool, which is really needed especially against Protoss. Could also remove the AOE from the anti-air attack (has proven problematic in lategame TvZ) but buff the damage to compensate. That just makes vikings even worse. What you could also do is keep the base range as it is now (maybe up it to 6) and lower the radius of defender mode, then have the upgrade be one that increases the radius. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9443 Posts
Thanks for your comments @colossus0445 Racism. Your only thanking him because he is korean ^^ | ||
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
However, unfortunately for me, a low level Terran (I am in low Platinum), LotV is unplayable. Terran is too difficult to play, it's too much about survival and all sort of extremely intensive (in the sense of micro and multitasking) timing attacks before the late game. In the late game there is no point for me to play vs Z. Simply the game became too difficult for me, I stopped playing because I have no fun anymore. SC2 in LotV became fast, almost arcade game. It no longer feels like strategy game. I never liked to play as P and I don't want to play as Z because it would mean playing almost exclusively ZvZ nowadays. So I just switched back to WoL  Anyway, LotV is great to watch, very enjoyable. But, for me, a low level Terran and a complete casual, it is far, far from being fun to play. And one more thing. I seriously hope for new ladder map pool and that Ulrena will be gone. I may not play LotV but I watch a lot of streams and would love to see games on new maps  | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20338 Posts
No, for example ZvP : if P defends early drop, then he has agressive options (oracle/dt/warprism/adept), and Zerg defends. But if zerg has not these agressive options, zerg defends, then defends, then defends, then defends, etc... Z has more effective tools to end games early-mid right now. If you feel that's too defensive, imagine how other players are feeling | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On March 12 2016 20:57 Elentos wrote: A buff against massive affects like 1 unit per race and seems like a complete waste of resources on a unit with the DPS of the liberator. Not to mention removing all range upgrades and locking it at 4 removes so much utility as a zoning tool, which is really needed especially against Protoss. That just makes vikings even worse. What you could also do is keep the base range as it is now (maybe up it to 6) and lower the radius of defender mode, then have the upgrade be one that increases the radius. All fair points. I thought about reducing the circle of freedom radius a while ago too, but for some reason didn't post it. I agree with you that it would probably be a better solution than removing the range upgrade, overall it's just better than my earlier suggestion. It might still need the -1 the base AG range tho, atm it just limits mapmaking too much. The air damage could have +damage to bio instead of the AOE, to make it more different to the viking then? The range is also way different. On a different topic: No mention of Nydus from Blizz is surprising. Giving it like +6 or +8 armor instead of pure invincibility sounds so much more smooth to me. It's like the old warp tech problem on crack. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 12 2016 21:08 Cyro wrote: Z has more effective tools to end games early-mid right now. If you feel that's too defensive, imagine how other players are feeling Sure, i suggest oracle, phoenix, adept shade, warprism speed will have the same than overlord speed, if T2 ovie drop is fine as a harass option... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17656 Posts
On March 12 2016 03:56 vult wrote: Map Data Please keep in mind that although data contributes towards the big picture, it doesn’t say everything about the situation and is not the absolute source from which we draw conclusions. That’s why we approach gauging the state of the game by looking into many factors such as ladder data, community feedback, pro feedback, current meta game on the ladder/tournaments, tournament results, checking past experiences, and so on. i like DKs approach to Stats/BI/Analytics/Database-Marketing. Of course it might get him banned from the Sloan Analytics conference. ) its also cool that he gives us a glimpse into his philosophy/approach to decision-making. | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On March 12 2016 05:30 Charoisaur wrote: What's the point in buffing banshees when mech is not viable. With bio you won't ever make banshees outside of the early game because you have no techlabbed starport Thats sad because banshees with speed upgrade are really good in every stage of the game. People havent discovered it yet thats all. Please dont let us go back to hots and please buff everything instead of nerfing it. Make everything viable instead of making it useless. There are two kind of balance skill vs reward and everything overpowered. One does apply to mass unit compositions and the last to a small amount of units. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20338 Posts
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On March 12 2016 07:21 Nerchio wrote: I am fine with them discussing overlords and ravagers but I wish they would think about doing something with Immortals  I'm surprised they haven't mentioned that 7 immortals can rip through an entire zerg army by themselves yet | ||
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Athenau
575 Posts
On March 12 2016 20:26 Salteador Neo wrote: It might still need the -1 the base AG range tho, atm it just limits mapmaking too much. Reducing the radius reduces the range. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
AA from the Factory We are currently exploring your feedback of potentially bringing in a generally solid AA option on the Factory to allow for a reliable ground based AA solution. We can definitely explore this angle with the Cyclone (if we don’t go the route proposed above), but Thor is definitely another area we can go. For example, because splash AA is covered pretty well by Widow Mines, one potential route we can go is more of a single-target, flat damage option on the Thor. Let’s discuss so that we can start exploring this front soon. Or, you know, use that unit that has existed for 20 years and would have saved you 5 years of attemting to balance Mech... | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3505 Posts
Overlord drop should become a unit in itself like the Overseer, it shouldn't be just another Overlord that can drop. Give it a cool name. Then remove the Mineral Costs of both Overseer and Droplord morphs, but make it so neither of them provides Supply. This makes the effective costs of the units 100/25 and 100/50 respectively. They are easier to get to, which means less dying to DT's and Cloaked Banshee's that happens to catch you off guard, but the strats would still be viable and every Overseer you force, is a bigger investment for the Zerg. The Droplord would be a bigger investment as well and makes it so you cannot just force reactions from Protoss, while macroing up in your own base and getting super far ahead as we see currently. However, once you've morphed a Droplord that also means that should the unit die, it's a smaller investment, as you save the 25 Minerals. We'll see less dropping, but you can be more aggressive with them. It would also be possible to give Droplords 1 armour, just like the Overseer, since it wouldn't break the early game. This would be a small buff to the mass Bane bombs and similar cool tactics. The Overseer could also receive a small speed buff, pre-Overlord Speed. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On March 12 2016 23:15 ejozl wrote: Okay so here's a thought regarding the Overlord that I think would be super interesting. Overlord drop should become a unit in itself like the Overseer, it shouldn't be just another Overlord that can drop. Give it a cool name. Then remove the Mineral Costs of both Overseer and Droplord morphs, but make it so neither of them provides Supply. This makes the effective costs of the units 100/25 and 100/50 respectively. They are easier to get to, which means less dying to DT's, Cloak Banshee's that caught you off guard, but the strats would still be viable and every Overseer you force, is a bigger investment for the Zerg. The Droplord, would be a bigger investment as well and makes it so you cannot just force reactions from Protoss, while macroing up in your own base and getting super far ahead, as we see currently. However, once you've morphed a Droplord that also means that should the unit die, it's a smaller investment, as you save the 25 Minerals. We'll see less dropping, but you can be more aggressive with them. It would also be possible to give Droplords 1 armour, just like the Overseer, since it wouldn't break the early game. This would be a small buff to the mass Bane bombs and similar cool tactics. The Overseer could also receive a small speed buff, pre-Overlord Speed. If they give no supply they are actually more expensive. Also, seems like a silly and annoying quirk in design when you can destroy your own supply... | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
? | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3505 Posts
On March 12 2016 23:18 SC2Toastie wrote: If they give no supply they are actually more expensive. Also, seems like a silly and annoying quirk in design when you can destroy your own supply... Yes they are bigger investments, untill the unit dies. | ||
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