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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On February 20 2016 02:06 ivancype wrote: Siege Tank pick up was one of the craziest and coolest ideas Blizzard had for LotV, please dont remove it (at least not entirely). Some people have suggested being able to pick up tanks in siege mode, but they get dropped in tank mode. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
#editor #lulz I think I like all of these changes. Though--and I've been saying this for ages--the Liberator upgrade being on Fusion Core tech is crazy-talk. If you're going to nerf the vast majority of Liberator usage, please at least make the upgrade slightly more accessible. This is going to nerf TvP again. | ||
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CheddarToss
534 Posts
On February 19 2016 23:26 ZAiNs wrote: You don't need to response with double Stargate immediately if you are using a Stalker-based composition. They need to commit hard to a ridiculous number of Mutalisks in order to make Phoenix necessary, and Zerg can't really do that without dying unless the Protoss never even tries to be aggressive or scout. The only time you need to be really careful is when going Chargelot Archon Immortal without a Stargate, then yes it's extremely difficult to play if they surprise you with Mutalisks, but if you skip the Stargate tech then be sure you have the game sense to sniff out Muta play. Protoss currently has enough variety in unit composition against Zerg that it's not a problem that the Mutalisk restricts it slightly. So the fact that almost every Korean Protoss player goes for double gate into double stargate is "restricts it slightly" in your opinion? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On February 20 2016 03:49 TimeSpiral wrote: Mmmm. Tanks. I've been waiting a long time to fulling my fantasy. #editor #lulz I think I like all of these changes. Though--and I've been saying this for ages--the Liberator upgrade being on Fusion Core tech is crazy-talk. If you're going to nerf the vast majority of Liberator usage, please at least make the upgrade slightly more accessible. This is going to nerf TvP again. Making the upgrade researchable directly at fusion core would help. So you don't have to cut liberator production to get a techlab. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3489 Posts
Yes it's strong vs Tanks, but so many things are strong vs Tanks, which is why I believe you should be able to retreat with them in Medivacs and not drop them in Siege Mode again. If Corrosive Bile didn't do damage to structures I don't think that it would enable Forge expands, but it would be cool if it did. As in all diversity is good for the game. Banes should be the counter to wallins, not Corrosive Bile. Even Zergs should be able to Spine up and be somewhat safe in ZvZ, this is not achieved by the current change. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17479 Posts
On February 20 2016 00:58 Garmer wrote: not with the upgrade of +10 shield which will bring marine to a 55 if the Siege mode were an upgrade then i could see them moving it up to 45+. i'll be surprised if they bump it up to 45+ while still having no upgrade requirement. i play at about 130 apm and so the first thing i reach for are buffs that require zero micro. so for me that combat shield upgrade is as essential as water and oxygen. so guys like me should really get that shield thing all the time. i'm not so sure that is the case with higher APM play levels though. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Marine maybe not. I just never want to see people picking up tanks in siege mode and boosting them to chase a retreating enemy. That's just... SO NOT what the tank is about... I'd watch it though with the tank buffs. I played Terran in BW... i had my fair share of tank fun so I get it... But also the tank can always be used with Bio and Liberators. 1/1/1 pushes with super tanks are going to be tough to stop. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On February 20 2016 03:49 TimeSpiral wrote: Mmmm. Tanks. I've been waiting a long time to fulling my fantasy. #editor #lulz I think I like all of these changes. Though--and I've been saying this for ages--the Liberator upgrade being on Fusion Core tech is crazy-talk. If you're going to nerf the vast majority of Liberator usage, please at least make the upgrade slightly more accessible. This is going to nerf TvP again. That would force zerg to go 2 base spire every game. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
I'm gonna mech it happen man. lol | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On February 20 2016 04:32 ejozl wrote: I think Corrosive Bile should deal less damage to structures instead (maybe no damage at all to make it simple). As Snute said it is crucial for fighting against Protoss and as already seen in the balance patch, it is crucial vs Liberators. Yes it's strong vs Tanks, but so many things are strong vs Tanks, which is why I believe you should be able to retreat with them in Medivacs and not drop them in Siege Mode again. If Corrosive Bile didn't do damage to structures I don't think that it would enable Forge expands, but it would be cool if it did. As in all diversity is good for the game. Banes should be the counter to wallins, not Corrosive Bile. Even Zergs should be able to Spine up and be somewhat safe in ZvZ, this is not achieved by the current change. It all depends on what exactly Blizzard is comfortable with in terms of bonus damage. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a reduced damage to x modifier for any unit. For instance, when Blizzard nerfed the old snipe they refashioned it into dealing bonus damage to psionic instead of dealing reduced damage to massive, which was a popular community suggestion. And I don't think there is any unit which deals common bonus damage to structures, similar to how bonus damage to armored/light/bio works. There existed (afaik) two units with special bonus damage to structures in banelings and reapers (with old grenades), but that's about a different choice in targets which triggers a different attack, it's not about the same attack hitting and dealing bonus damage. (though your suggestion of corrosive bile not damaging structures at all could work I guess) So it might be that bonus damage to bio is Blizzard's only acceptable compromise in nerfing corrosive bile vs structures, and they rationalize it by pointing out the ravager's strength vs protoss. And they might be happy having the ability to target specific match-ups in the future by e.g. changing the bonus damage to bio to +10 or +20 from +15 in the future. And maybe there is an edict in the SC2 team that you can not have abilities which deal reduced damage to certain targets because 1. players feel like they are punished 2. players will interpret subtraction as addition due to habit and 3. humans are worse at subtraction than addition, since I'm sure this is a piece of player psychology Blizzard is aware of. I don't really know of course, but it's fun to speculate. | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
![[image loading]](http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/142946/4882402-siege+tank+-+maelstrom+rounds.jpg) Maelstrom Rounds Siege tanks do +40 damage to their primary target. Splash damage remains the same. Maelstrom Rounds have an armor-piercing tip that inflicts devastating damage on the primary target. Splash damage is identical to the standard round. If siege tanks struck fear into the hearts of our enemies before, they will inspire abject terror when firing the Maelstrom Round. | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
I'm really on the fence about the tankivac change. I kinda, sorta like seeing tankivac play, but it does basically crush the core identity of the unit. Like other posters have mentioned, maybe it needs a range buff more than a damage buff, if tankivac pick-ups go away. I'll be interested to see how it plays out. Terrans will definitely being doing a lot more 1-1-1 style all ins against protoss if the change goes through (and they might be nearly unstoppable if the liberator range doesn't get nerfed). | ||
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CyanApple
48 Posts
It shouldn't be possible for terrans to go mech only, just like it isn't possible for protoss to go robo only. Terrans should have their basic/core units (marines+medivacs) which they supplement with favoured (or situationally necessary) units. This solves many problems, as there's no need for mech AA and no necessity for a hard transition from mech to air, as you have bio to at least half-effectively trade with air and tanks to put pressure on the opponent at the front, while transitioning. With the update, tanks can get to the front faster by medivacs, without engaging unfairly into defenses, since they have to siege first. For this to be viable, MMM shouldn't be AS strong on their own as they are right now and supplementary units should have more impact. The same holds for protoss, as they aswell produce out of production buildings. Their core unit should be stalker (less so the adepts - they should be a situational/harass unit that trades off well in earlygame), as it can fight against ground and air. It is then supplemented with further tech units. Due to basically the same unit production method, this matchup is to some degree sort of a mirror matchup, in which it is risky to open with tech, as it can be hardcountered. Against zergs however this is different, as they are not bound to production buildings. As a tradeoff, zergs dont have an early core unit, but can mass-transition easier to put pressure on the oponent later in the game. Imo this puts the races into perspective and should stop discussions about massive redesigns of certain tech paths. I have a question, though. Why is it, that an early ravager push is hard to stop and comes with such a low risk? Terrans and protoss can't produce enough air units (or other ravager-countering units) early enough, right? This is the only problem I see currently after this "test update". To avoid this, ravagers should be delayed (eventhough they are a great counter to reapers due to their range) - their damage doesn't need to be reduced. For that cause and to avoid mass ravagers, spamming biles on immobile targets, their supply should be increased. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On February 20 2016 06:18 HardlyNever wrote: I'm really on the fence about the tankivac change. I kinda, sorta like seeing tankivac play, but it does basically crush the core identity of the unit. The deck seems highly stacked against the siege tank. Smart and self-conscious, it is burdened with expectations by the success of its older brother and lives to disappoint. Ill-suited to the new environment it keeps trying and when it finally does become useful it is accused of selling out and abandoning its core identity. Still we all have a soft spot for it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17479 Posts
On February 20 2016 04:49 DinoMight wrote: I just never want to see people picking up tanks in siege mode and boosting them to chase a retreating enemy. That's just... SO NOT what the tank is about... as much as i liked Siege Tank hot pickups.. you've got a good point here. | ||
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quesquecest
1 Post
In any case, if medivacs can't pickup tanks in siege mode, surly phoenix should have the same limitation. They are either bolted to the ground or they are not. I thought this was so weird back in the previous expansion logic-wise. | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On February 20 2016 06:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as much as i liked Siege Tank hot pickups.. you've got a good point here. Well, Siege Tanks are also really terrible examples of real tanks. It really should be a called something else we are talking about verisimilitude. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 20 2016 06:18 Loccstana wrote: What if they buff the siege tank by giving Terran one of the WoL campaign upgrades? Maelstrom Rounds Siege tanks do +40 damage to their primary target. Splash damage remains the same. Maelstrom Rounds have an armor-piercing tip that inflicts devastating damage on the primary target. Splash damage is identical to the standard round. If siege tanks struck fear into the hearts of our enemies before, they will inspire abject terror when firing the Maelstrom Round. You cannot buff the tanks with this and don't give them overkill. Can you imagine the mayhem this would create with smart fire? Probably not. | ||
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