The problem is that the 'Cyclone's Lock on Range.' (This bug has been currently reported by PlayXP's ID:[분열기])
The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, So, if the lock-on is casted, it must has to be locked at range of 7. but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5! This is a huge problem because you can actually get hit by immortal(range 6) first though you casts Lock-on(range 7)... -> Synergize with Cyclone's low HP We will be glad if you guys help this thing out.
To use the Lock On ability, a Cyclone must approach a target lock on to a target (range: 7). If Lock On is activated, a Cyclone can move away from the target. The Lock On lasts over 14 seconds and its range is 12.
and one little more thing, which would mean world to us actually using cyclones is give them tab priority vs hellions. One of rare unit that have spell and doesnt have priority
On February 06 2016 22:02 Psychobabas wrote: I really hope they fix Cyclone into a decent enough unit because honestly it is such a disappointment.
If you had seen what it originally looked like in the beta you'd see how it got to where it is. It was stupidly overpowered.
The design just doesn't seem to work well. It's either too weak or too strong. The lock on mechanic and insane range and dps just makes it a nightmare to balance properly.
On February 06 2016 22:02 Psychobabas wrote: I really hope they fix Cyclone into a decent enough unit because honestly it is such a disappointment.
If you had seen what it originally looked like in the beta you'd see how it got to where it is. It was stupidly overpowered.
The design just doesn't seem to work well. It's either too weak or too strong. The lock on mechanic and insane range and dps just makes it a nightmare to balance properly.
In Beta it was too strong, now to weak. How about going for a middleground instead of calling them unbalancable.
I played a monobattle and got cyclone, while someone in the other team got marauders: It was impossible to lock on while not getting hit by the slow shells and thus lose cyclones during fights. I thought it was an intended behaviour that the lock on range is lower then 6.
I just tried this in the unit tester with a cyclone against a marine in a bunker. It's not true. You can lock-on to the bunker at range 7 without taking a hit from bunkered marine (range 6). But the annoying thing is that the cyclone will try to close for a normal attack unless you move command it away once you get the lock.
What I _think_ is happening is that the scan range is 7, which is larger than the range of the normal attack. So it'll try to move in to attack using the normal weapon even though it's already locked-on.
On February 06 2016 22:02 Psychobabas wrote: I really hope they fix Cyclone into a decent enough unit because honestly it is such a disappointment.
If you had seen what it originally looked like in the beta you'd see how it got to where it is. It was stupidly overpowered.
The design just doesn't seem to work well. It's either too weak or too strong. The lock on mechanic and insane range and dps just makes it a nightmare to balance properly.
Yes it was overpowered but now it's just a meh unit with no real purpose. Just make it into a goliath already lol.
On February 07 2016 01:59 chipmonklord17 wrote: Nathanias discovered a different bug while streaming that the cyclone didn't do anything at all while in range, attack or lock on
On February 07 2016 01:59 chipmonklord17 wrote: Nathanias discovered a different bug while streaming that the cyclone didn't do anything at all while in range, attack or lock on
Wouldn't even move into attack range?
It was being surrounded by units and it just didn't attack, he sent the vod in to Blizzard, or at least said he was going to. You could see it turn to face a unit but wouldn't attack or lock on, even after getting picked up and dropped
On February 07 2016 01:59 chipmonklord17 wrote: Nathanias discovered a different bug while streaming that the cyclone didn't do anything at all while in range, attack or lock on
Wouldn't even move into attack range?
It was being surrounded by units and it just didn't attack, he sent the vod in to Blizzard, or at least said he was going to. You could see it turn to face a unit but wouldn't attack or lock on, even after getting picked up and dropped
"said he was going to" ye of little faith ;p yeah I reported to blizz it's being looked at as we speak.
As far as the issue mentioned in this thread goes, I think the cyclone when left alone will always try to move into normal attack range of any targets nearby. If you manually lock on + shift move away you can avoid this but yeah it's a bit silly.
Very odd how these bugs could go unnoticed for so long. It's a good thing though, perhaps the "buff" will make them a more worthwhile investment. But perhaps the lock on range is an error with the description of the unit, and not the unit itself? Would hope not.
The lock-on range is 7. You can easily verify this in the unit tester. The "bug" is that your cyclones will close to 5 range even after they lock on, unless you tell them not to.
The obvious fix is to disable the regular weapon when lock-on is active. Or just increase the regular weapon range to 7 to match the lock-on range.
The normal weapon doesn't fire when locked-on, but the cyclone does try to get into weapon range (5). Disabling that behavior is what I mean by disabling the normal weapon.
I think Cyclone is just bad game design. In the beta it was massively over powered, now its really awful. Something is bad about the basic design if there is no middle ground between op and useless.
On February 06 2016 21:57 [Disruptor] wrote: The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, ... but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5!
This isn't true, and can be verified in a unit tester.
Excuse the low quality GIF (I have no idea what I'm doing), but here you can see a Cyclone locking on to an Archon at Range 7, in contrast to a Reaper attacking an Archon at Range 5.
One thing I did notice is that although the Lock On Range is, in fact, 7, the Cyclone is kind of stupid and wants to keep charging at the Archon until it is at Range 5. While you can avoid that by simply controlling the Cyclone, I agree that Blizzard should remove this behavior in a future patch.
On February 06 2016 21:57 [Disruptor] wrote: The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, ... but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5!
This isn't true, and can be verified in a unit tester.
Excuse the low quality GIF (I have no idea what I'm doing), but here you can see a Cyclone locking on to an Archon at Range 7, in contrast to a Reaper attacking an Archon at Range 5.
One thing I did notice is that although the Lock On Range is, in fact, 7, the Cyclone is kind of stupid and wants to keep charging at the Archon until it is at Range 5. While you can avoid that by simply controlling the Cyclone, I agree that Blizzard should remove this behavior in a future patch.
Playing around further in the unit tester, it seems the best way to avoid this behavior is to shift-queue both locking on and moving away. Here's an example:
Well, if it is possible to lock-on on range 7 then the best solution is to change its default "attack" range to 7 or something like that while its activated. If you set it to 12, it will stop chasing a retreating unit until it is out of range or out of vision while on attack move. IMO its default range should be 7 anyway.
The question is why would anyone build a 120hp armored unit that costs 150/150 3 supply in the first place. The cyclone needs some serious buffs if Blizzard want it to be anything but a troll unit.
Blizzard how about giving back the cyclone that you promised us in the beta:
On February 07 2016 07:51 Jaaaaasper wrote: I think Cyclone is just bad game design. In the beta it was massively over powered, now its really awful. Something is bad about the basic design if there is no middle ground between op and useless.
Yeah they nerfed it because they don't want people mass cyclone.Compare with disruptor you can't mass it too because in direct engage you can't micro too much ball while you micro other unit but in small number they are very cost effect if use correctly. And cyclone.....Like disruptor it's very bad when en masses but when you build small number it's nowhere has the same impact as disruptor despite same cost and supply. Even with current issue disruptor's design is much better than cyclone imo.
On February 06 2016 21:57 [Disruptor] wrote: The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, ... but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5!
This isn't true, and can be verified in a unit tester.
Excuse the low quality GIF (I have no idea what I'm doing), but here you can see a Cyclone locking on to an Archon at Range 7, in contrast to a Reaper attacking an Archon at Range 5.
One thing I did notice is that although the Lock On Range is, in fact, 7, the Cyclone is kind of stupid and wants to keep charging at the Archon until it is at Range 5. While you can avoid that by simply controlling the Cyclone, I agree that Blizzard should remove this behavior in a future patch.
Playing around further in the unit tester, it seems the best way to avoid this behavior is to shift-queue both locking on and moving away. Here's an example:
Thats if you have 1 cyclone and you are controlling only that 1 cyclones, as you get more units and, more importantly, more cyclones, it becomes much less responsive.
On February 06 2016 21:57 [Disruptor] wrote: The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, ... but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5!
This isn't true, and can be verified in a unit tester.
Excuse the low quality GIF (I have no idea what I'm doing), but here you can see a Cyclone locking on to an Archon at Range 7, in contrast to a Reaper attacking an Archon at Range 5.
One thing I did notice is that although the Lock On Range is, in fact, 7, the Cyclone is kind of stupid and wants to keep charging at the Archon until it is at Range 5. While you can avoid that by simply controlling the Cyclone, I agree that Blizzard should remove this behavior in a future patch.
On February 06 2016 21:57 [Disruptor] wrote: The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, ... but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5!
This isn't true, and can be verified in a unit tester.
Excuse the low quality GIF (I have no idea what I'm doing), but here you can see a Cyclone locking on to an Archon at Range 7, in contrast to a Reaper attacking an Archon at Range 5.
One thing I did notice is that although the Lock On Range is, in fact, 7, the Cyclone is kind of stupid and wants to keep charging at the Archon until it is at Range 5. While you can avoid that by simply controlling the Cyclone, I agree that Blizzard should remove this behavior in a future patch.
really? so I did experiments again.
but Very different results came out.
The Cyclone locks on at Range 7, but moves forward until Range 5. This is visible in both GIFs you linked. The easiest way to demonstrate this is to shift-queue a move command after ordering a Lock On, like so:
..or tell the Cyclone to Hold Position as soon as you hear the unit Lock On.
You can prevent the Cyclone from moving forward by issuing another command, but it will still want to drift and 'chase' whatever is in front of it/whatever it's attacking, much like a Marine will move towards a group of Stalkers if they're close enough.
In my opinion, the best way to fix this issue would be to increase the default attack range of the Cyclone from 5 to 7. It doesn't make sense for its base range to be so low, even when not Locked On.
There are people that have been complaining cyclone's AI behavior for a while Surprised so many people here still don't know and mistake it as a lock-on range bug EDIT: and the amount of people don't read the comments : P
"In my opinion, the best way to fix this issue would be to increase the default attack range of the Cyclone from 5 to 7. It doesn't make sense for its base range to be so low, even when not Locked On."
On February 06 2016 21:57 [Disruptor] wrote: The normal Attack of Cyclone has range of 5, and the Lock-on has a range of 7, ... but somehow, it locks target on range of 5, which is the range of normal attack! We also tested by casting Lock-on Skill manually, still, it casts it's lock-on on range of 5!
This isn't true, and can be verified in a unit tester.
Excuse the low quality GIF (I have no idea what I'm doing), but here you can see a Cyclone locking on to an Archon at Range 7, in contrast to a Reaper attacking an Archon at Range 5.
One thing I did notice is that although the Lock On Range is, in fact, 7, the Cyclone is kind of stupid and wants to keep charging at the Archon until it is at Range 5. While you can avoid that by simply controlling the Cyclone, I agree that Blizzard should remove this behavior in a future patch.
really? so I did experiments again.
but Very different results came out.
The Cyclone locks on at Range 7, but moves forward until Range 5. This is visible in both GIFs you linked. The easiest way to demonstrate this is to shift-queue a move command after ordering a Lock On, like so:
..or tell the Cyclone to Hold Position as soon as you hear the unit Lock On.
You can prevent the Cyclone from moving forward by issuing another command, but it will still want to drift and 'chase' whatever is in front of it/whatever it's attacking, much like a Marine will move towards a group of Stalkers if they're close enough.
In my opinion, the best way to fix this issue would be to increase the default attack range of the Cyclone from 5 to 7. It doesn't make sense for its base range to be so low, even when not Locked On.
So it works if you target an individual unit but not if your move/attack command goes inside of 7 yards?
I think this debate whether lock-on is 5 range or 7 range is all for naught. The cyclone is so worthless right now nobody in their mind would actually use it to win games. Blizzard needs to completely revamp this unit or remove it.
On February 07 2016 16:25 phantomfive wrote: That explains how Maru lost his cyclone against Zest, when it wandered a little too far forward into the range of the pylon attack
Also how taeja got into pylon range with his cyclone before he killed the Protoss 3rd.
On February 07 2016 19:48 Loccstana wrote: I think this debate whether lock-on is 5 range or 7 range is all for naught. The cyclone is so worthless right now nobody in their mind would actually use it to win games. Blizzard needs to completely revamp this unit or remove it.
7 range is a big deal because it means outranging PO and Stalkers. Right now terrans everywhere are derping their cyclones into taking hits whenever trying to lock on, especially with more than one. With the scan range effect thing in legacy and 7 range, they'd never take a single hit
So it works if you target an individual unit but not if your move/attack command goes inside of 7 yards?
No, it will lock-on at range 7 with autocast as well.
Yes, but will it continue the a-move command to within 5 unless you target (r-click) a specific unit? (Unless you a-move right to the scan range) Also, what's the scan range? (Will it move from 8 -> 7 on it's own to engage lock on if it's not on hold-command?)
I would guess this is because the regular attack of the Cyclone is not properly deactivated while locking on. If the attack was deactivated the Cyclone would not try to move closer. So I presume this should be a trivial fix.
On February 07 2016 23:35 RoomOfMush wrote: I would guess this is because the regular attack of the Cyclone is not properly deactivated while locking on. If the attack was deactivated the Cyclone would not try to move closer. So I presume this should be a trivial fix.
It's not just about deactivating regular attack. What should it do, act like an infestor and walk into the enemy on attack move? Most reasonably it should have attack range 7.
On February 07 2016 23:35 RoomOfMush wrote: I would guess this is because the regular attack of the Cyclone is not properly deactivated while locking on. If the attack was deactivated the Cyclone would not try to move closer. So I presume this should be a trivial fix.
It's not just about deactivating regular attack. What should it do, act like an infestor and walk into the enemy on attack move? Most reasonably it should have attack range 7.
That is a good point. So, what you say is to change the attack range to 7 only during lock on? That would probably work.
On February 07 2016 19:48 Loccstana wrote: I think this debate whether lock-on is 5 range or 7 range is all for naught. The cyclone is so worthless right now nobody in their mind would actually use it to win games. Blizzard needs to completely revamp this unit or remove it.
7 range is a big deal because it means outranging PO and Stalkers. Right now terrans everywhere are derping their cyclones into taking hits whenever trying to lock on, especially with more than one. With the scan range effect thing in legacy and 7 range, they'd never take a single hit
Photon Overcharge has range 7, so that wouldn't change anything. They would outrange Stalkers but like most units they'd still have to stop to fire so they would take hits unless they use their ability.
On February 07 2016 19:48 Loccstana wrote: I think this debate whether lock-on is 5 range or 7 range is all for naught. The cyclone is so worthless right now nobody in their mind would actually use it to win games. Blizzard needs to completely revamp this unit or remove it.
7 range is a big deal because it means outranging PO and Stalkers. Right now terrans everywhere are derping their cyclones into taking hits whenever trying to lock on, especially with more than one. With the scan range effect thing in legacy and 7 range, they'd never take a single hit
Photon Overcharge has range 7, so that wouldn't change anything. They would outrange Stalkers but like most units they'd still have to stop to fire so they would take hits unless they use their ability.
Ah, wasn't 100% sure on the numbers
They would outrange Stalkers but like most units they'd still have to stop to fire so they would take hits unless they use their ability.
Stalkers outrange marines by 1 and have to stop to fire with a pretty long animation, they still don't get hit with good control. Higher range + higher speed gives better kiting now than before
On February 07 2016 19:48 Loccstana wrote: I think this debate whether lock-on is 5 range or 7 range is all for naught. The cyclone is so worthless right now nobody in their mind would actually use it to win games. Blizzard needs to completely revamp this unit or remove it.
7 range is a big deal because it means outranging PO and Stalkers. Right now terrans everywhere are derping their cyclones into taking hits whenever trying to lock on, especially with more than one. With the scan range effect thing in legacy and 7 range, they'd never take a single hit
Photon Overcharge has range 7, so that wouldn't change anything. They would outrange Stalkers but like most units they'd still have to stop to fire so they would take hits unless they use their ability.
They would outrange Stalkers but like most units they'd still have to stop to fire so they would take hits unless they use their ability.
Stalkers outrange marines by 1 and have to stop to fire with a pretty long animation, they still don't get hit with good control. Higher range + higher speed gives better kiting now than before
Stalkers do get hit even with good control, but they have shields. Also stalkers are faster than marines, but have the same speed as cyclones.
Seems to me, the reason the default attack range is 5 instead of 7 is to keep players from deactivating Auto-Cast on Lock-On and using the Cyclone's default attack to kite marines forever. If you increase the default attack range to 7, I think you'll see that.
How about getting rid of the Cyclone's default attack entirely? Is it used much? I'd swap it out for a Lock-On cooldown buff (4 -> 3 seconds) or an extra 40HP.
Seems to me, the reason the default attack range is 5 instead of 7 is to keep players from deactivating Auto-Cast on Lock-On and using the Cyclone's default attack to kite marines forever. If you increase the default attack range to 7, I think you'll see that.
I don't think anyone's going to build cyclones to kite stimless marines, and if they did, I don't see why that's a problem?
cyclone is a glass cannon now, you can't obtain a similar damaging unit like him
you need to separate the cyclones to the main group, and put them near the units you want to snipe, the cyclones automatically snipe the enemy units , meanwhile you can distract the enemy units with, for example, BCs
other form is to make the cyclones follow a BC or other unit, the cyclones automatically target a valid target, so you need to move your bc to the enemy units... but you need to be VERY near to acomplish that, so is preferable to move then near
On April 13 2022 06:05 MVFGrant1 wrote: is a bit tricky
cyclone is a glass cannon now, you can't obtain a similar damaging unit like him
you need to separate the cyclones to the main group, and put them near the units you want to snipe, the cyclones automatically snipe the enemy units , meanwhile you can distract the enemy units with, for example, BCs
other form is to make the cyclones follow a BC or other unit, the cyclones automatically target a valid target, so you need to move your bc to the enemy units... but you need to be VERY near to acomplish that, so is preferable to move then near
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgflip.com/yqkms.gif)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgflip.com/yql5j.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lEEJnjj.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hUyT2rM.gif)
