SBENU representative said, "We agreed that SBENU stops sponsoring SC2 Team, We`ll settle balance soon." while stating "Nothing changes with LOL team."
Legend responded, "As it is known, sponsorship is done. However, we`ll keep our name SBENU till other naming sponsor appears. We want to participate in Proleague with new sponsor."
I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
My Korean elitism will not approve of ProLeague getting stained by foreigners.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
What foreign team is in Korea? The game is played offline, it would be weird to see just 1 team in studio.
Edit: Also the foreign scene won't make up for it. Because foreign scene was winning huge money in the beginning of SC2 and we see where it is now.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikely
I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
Fixed that for you.
It was an understatement
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
You guys broke my dream hard, anyway I'll go on about it because hope doesn't hurt.
What do you think would create more hype and attract more viewers and interest into SC2? "Decaffeinated" tourneys (is this even valid English? in Spanish we use it to describe stuff with little interest) where only foreigners play each other and even then a Korean resident in NA/EU may win the whole thing? Or a western guy competing head to head with a korean with real chances to win?
I mean, look at Champions League. Arguably, the 10th best team in Spain's Liga or Premier League will probably better than the best Macedonian or Austrian team (no offense), but everyone agrees that there should be a limit on how many teams from the same country play. Let me remind everyone that there was a time when only the league champion played the next year's European Cup. That meant that Barça or R.Madrid (or both if the championship was won by someone else) missed one edition every year. That was crazy.
In SC2 I don't think Koreans should flood all foreign tournaments because it doesn't make sense from a product/marketing/viewership standpoint. But the option should be there to see how far away foreginers are when compared to Koreans. Wasn't it great when sjow beat life or when lilbow owned Hydra in last WCS finals?
I know (sadly) that it's not gonna happen, but still I am ready to convince anyone that it would actually be a good move to gather very good foreigners in a team and, yes, send them to Korea to compete. Giving away easy WCS money and such would be a minor loss compared to how big they'd become if they performed well, and sponsor-wise why would it be a bad move? Have your brand reach a market by advertising in one of its deepest rooted cultural entertainment?
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
The audience numbers were getting bigger, so it looked that Korean SC2 scenes was getting better. Not sure from whom I saw this information though.. But even PL/GSL/SSL audience was getting bigger. No more empty places, unless that was payed crowd of course
And yes, that thing about players is said, but teams need less players and the Korean SC2 scene is over-saturated. New WCS thingy didn't help with that, that's right
On January 20 2016 18:06 JonnySC2 wrote: Guess the chances for 8 team PL are about zero percent right now
They were already. KeSPA was only debating whether they go ahead with SBENU and have 7 teams or whether they ditch SBENU and go with 6.
Personally, I hope they let the team play regardless of sponsoring because the players would be too fucked otherwise.
Well I'm sure they would be let to play. But without sponsor no mney, who wants to play in PL without getting paid?
It's not like they have much of a choice if they want their career to keep going. There's 2 seasons each of GSL and S2SL, and 1 confirmed KeSPA Cup. Players who don't get into either league/are eliminated early have literally nothing to do for months if they don't play Proleague.
On January 20 2016 18:16 noobPride wrote: You guys broke my dream hard, anyway I'll go on about it because hope doesn't hurt.
What do you think would create more hype and attract more viewers and interest into SC2? "Decaffeinated" tourneys (is this even valid English? in Spanish we use it to describe stuff with little interest) where only foreigners play each other and even then a Korean resident in NA/EU may win the whole thing? Or a western guy competing head to head with a korean with real chances to win?
I mean, look at Champions League. Arguably, the 10th best team in Spain's Liga or Premier League will probably better than the best Macedonian or Austrian team (no offense), but everyone agrees that there should be a limit on how many teams from the same country play. Let me remind everyone that there was a time when only the league champion played the next year's European Cup. That meant that Barça or R.Madrid (or both if the championship was won by someone else) missed one edition every year. That was crazy.
In SC2 I don't think Koreans should flood all foreign tournaments because it doesn't make sense from a product/marketing/viewership standpoint. But the option should be there to see how far away foreginers are when compared to Koreans. Wasn't it great when sjow beat life or when lilbow owned Hydra in last WCS finals?
I know (sadly) that it's not gonna happen, but still I am ready to convince anyone that it would actually be a good move to gather very good foreigners in a team and, yes, send them to Korea to compete. Giving away easy WCS money and such would be a minor loss compared to how big they'd become if they performed well, and sponsor-wise why would it be a bad move? Have your brand reach a market by advertising in one of its deepest rooted cultural entertainment?
Anyway not gonna happen
People keep bringing up football to defend the WCS system when it's actually the worst analogy possible. In football, teams are based in one country / region, where they compete; but essentially there are no limits on who they can sign (some exceptions granted, like in Germany / Italy, but not wholly applicable to this situation).
What does that equate to in Starcraft? Exactly what we had in 2013/14, where teams signed Koreans and sent them to play in the regions where that team was based.
Stop using football as an analogy
On January 20 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote: The audience numbers were getting bigger, so it looked that Korean SC2 scenes was getting better. Not sure from whom I saw this information though.. But even PL/GSL/SSL audience was getting bigger. No more empty places, unless that was payed crowd of course
And yes, that thing about players is said, but teams need less players and the Korean SC2 scene is over-saturated. New WCS thingy didn't help with that, that's right
The issue isn't even that it's oversaturated; it's that there's no inflow of talent at all. It might look 'healthy' now, but what do you reckon is going to happen in a couple of years when the current generation head off to the military?
On January 20 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote: And yes, that thing about players is said, but teams need less players and the Korean SC2 scene is over-saturated. New WCS thingy didn't help with that, that's right
The foreign scene is even more oversaturated technically. What is done? They're given more opportunities. Meanwhile in Korea, opportunities are reduced and there's barely any new players to begin with.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
Do you remember 2012-2013 proleague? that was sooo bad. Production is not good, audience is very low. After SPOTV starts proleague, audience/viewers get bigger, offline final was great success both 2014/2015. Of course they may be viewbotting/audiencebotting kappa.
Though that sponsorship cancellation is not so surprising, the fact that they announced to everyone (including the player I assume) that the would keep it is just so irresponsible. I don't see what could be the benefits of pretending this apart from keeping the players is a (dark) grey area.
On January 20 2016 18:16 noobPride wrote: You guys broke my dream hard, anyway I'll go on about it because hope doesn't hurt.
What do you think would create more hype and attract more viewers and interest into SC2? "Decaffeinated" tourneys (is this even valid English? in Spanish we use it to describe stuff with little interest) where only foreigners play each other and even then a Korean resident in NA/EU may win the whole thing? Or a western guy competing head to head with a korean with real chances to win?
I mean, look at Champions League. Arguably, the 10th best team in Spain's Liga or Premier League will probably better than the best Macedonian or Austrian team (no offense), but everyone agrees that there should be a limit on how many teams from the same country play. Let me remind everyone that there was a time when only the league champion played the next year's European Cup. That meant that Barça or R.Madrid (or both if the championship was won by someone else) missed one edition every year. That was crazy.
In SC2 I don't think Koreans should flood all foreign tournaments because it doesn't make sense from a product/marketing/viewership standpoint. But the option should be there to see how far away foreginers are when compared to Koreans. Wasn't it great when sjow beat life or when lilbow owned Hydra in last WCS finals?
I know (sadly) that it's not gonna happen, but still I am ready to convince anyone that it would actually be a good move to gather very good foreigners in a team and, yes, send them to Korea to compete. Giving away easy WCS money and such would be a minor loss compared to how big they'd become if they performed well, and sponsor-wise why would it be a bad move? Have your brand reach a market by advertising in one of its deepest rooted cultural entertainment?
Anyway not gonna happen
People keep bringing up football to defend the WCS system when it's actually the worst analogy possible. In football, teams are based in one country / region, where they compete; but essentially there are no limits on who they can sign (some exceptions granted, like in Germany / Italy, but not wholly applicable to this situation).
What does that equate to in Starcraft? Exactly what we had in 2013/14, where teams signed Koreans and sent them to play in the regions where that team was based.
On January 20 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote: The audience numbers were getting bigger, so it looked that Korean SC2 scenes was getting better. Not sure from whom I saw this information though.. But even PL/GSL/SSL audience was getting bigger. No more empty places, unless that was payed crowd of course
And yes, that thing about players is said, but teams need less players and the Korean SC2 scene is over-saturated. New WCS thingy didn't help with that, that's right
The issue isn't even that it's oversaturated; it's that there's no inflow of talent at all. It might look 'healthy' now, but what do you reckon is going to happen in a couple of years when the current generation head off to the military?
You cannot grow a talent when you have enough players. We need more retirements to get some talents. It's a terrible thing to write :/
On January 20 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote: And yes, that thing about players is said, but teams need less players and the Korean SC2 scene is over-saturated. New WCS thingy didn't help with that, that's right
The foreign scene is even more oversaturated technically. What is done? They're given more opportunities. Meanwhile in Korea, opportunities are reduced and there's barely any new players to begin with.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
I heard a rumor that Leenock has a part time job outside esports, I wouldn't be surprised if the Korean scene moves closer to the foreign scene in terms of dedication and we see the overall level of play drop due to the players not being supported as well as before.
On January 20 2016 18:35 sharkie wrote: You can blame a lot on the WCS changes but they aren't the reason SC2 is declining in Korea...
No, they're just the reason the players on SBENU can't afford to miss Proleague.
Look at it this way. Imagine you dumped the whole Korean prize pool for the year into one tournament in January, and that it is the only tournament run for Koreans all year.
What do you reckon is going to happen? Will players hang around for another year practicing for a tournament in 2017?
Reduce the number of opportunities, and it's going to lead to retirements
I mean the team exists and it's not going away (atleast for now). I really don't get why KeSPA is still holding out. So what if they rebrand mid season? It's still the same team and they want to compete.
On January 20 2016 18:51 REyeM wrote: I mean the team exists and it's not going away (atleast for now). I really don't get why KeSPA is still holding out. So what if they rebrand mid season? It's still the same team and they want to compete.
I assume that the issue is that without a sponsor, there's no guarantee they'll be able to maintain funding to last the full year.
I assume KeSPA is gonna decide soon though, since apparently the original plan was apparently to announce everything on Jan 18th. Don't see them delaying everything for much longer.
If they don't allow former-sbenu in PL it's just going to accelerate the decline of the region, i don't see much benefit at all. don't tell me in 2016 kespa is still too proud to allow something to go " wrong " mid season of proleague, the whole thing is much more informal than it used to be.
I don't think this is bad news at all tbh. Yes it sucks to lose a sponsor but who wants to be affiliated with Sbenu now anyway. It looks like it's only a matter of time before Sbenu goes belly up so better get it done with now instead of having to deal with the fallout later.
Anyone who tries to blame this on WCS changes and not the rise of LoL in Korea and better take a good hard look in the mirror and appreciate just how dumb you are. This literally has nothing to do with WCS, and everything to do with sonic being a shady as fuck businessman and LoLs ridiculous dominance in popularity.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
I think he was talking about viewers, thinking about what the KeSPA guy said in about growth, like there was enormours growth in 2014 and some growth in 2015 when it comes to viewers (but never enough to support the scene if foreign tournaments fall away I don't think, also one has to remember the scene was almost dead coming into 2014)
The big problem I see currently, is that there is no incentive for new players to start playing professionally so it will fade away, which is kinda really sad
On January 20 2016 19:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Anyone who tries to blame this on WCS changes and not the rise of LoL in Korea and better take a good hard look in the mirror and appreciate just how dumb you are. This literally has nothing to do with WCS, and everything to do with sonic being a shady as fuck businessman and LoLs ridiculous dominance in popularity.
since when are you the voice of reason i want the old sgtk back
On January 20 2016 19:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Anyone who tries to blame this on WCS changes and not the rise of LoL in Korea and better take a good hard look in the mirror and appreciate just how dumb you are. This literally has nothing to do with WCS, and everything to do with sonic being a shady as fuck businessman and LoLs ridiculous dominance in popularity.
SBENU folding might have nothing to do with WCS, but the fallout from it is everything to do with WCS
On January 20 2016 19:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Anyone who tries to blame this on WCS changes and not the rise of LoL in Korea and better take a good hard look in the mirror and appreciate just how dumb you are. This literally has nothing to do with WCS, and everything to do with sonic being a shady as fuck businessman and LoLs ridiculous dominance in popularity.
Yea even Riot fucking up big time with OGN didn't hurt that, OGN currently is too depending on LoL to do what they did to Blizzard when Blizzard tried something similiar (but a bit less extreme even)
On January 20 2016 19:07 REyeM wrote: I like how everyone is so focused on Korean region declining. Korean region IS competitive Starcraft.
Sure it is now, but given enough time with current conditions eventually Korea will become an amateur scene just as the foreign one is.
hahaha good joke. lazy foreigners will never be able to compete with koreans. even semi-pros like mc and dragon are owning most of the top foreigners atm with ease.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
Fixed that for you.
It was an understatement
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
I think he was talking about viewers, thinking about what the KeSPA guy said in about growth, like there was enormours growth in 2014 and some growth in 2015 when it comes to viewers (but never enough to support the scene if foreign tournaments fall away I don't think, also one has to remember the scene was almost dead coming into 2014)
The big problem I see currently, is that there is no incentive for new players to start playing professionally so it will fade away, which is kinda really sad
I can realistically see a future where GSL/SSL/Proleague are gone and Kespa is no longer involved in sc2, the ban on South Korean players playing in WCS is lifted and the game continues to live on in the foreign scene.
Of course in this future the level of play at the very top is much worse and very few Korean players are still playing sc2 professionally.
On January 20 2016 17:48 noobPride wrote: I really hope the foreign scene makes up for the death of Korean SC2
I also think this is actually the best time to throw a foreign team into PL, with an early meta and the game still evolving and definitely not figured out by anyone (just look at HOTS powerhouses and how quite a few of them have dropped off the radar)
Finding a team of foreigners who will be competitive, and also willing to give up that WCS $$$ is unlikelyimpossible
Fixed that for you.
It was an understatement
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
How has the Korean scene got better since 2014? For every new player who's emerged, you can name 10 who have retired. Look at the fact that half the competitive player pool is now out of action in GSL for half a year; they might be getting $2k for making Code A, but on top of minimal salaries that's a laughable annual wage.
Anyone who thinks the Korean scene is healthy after the WCS changes is kidding themselves
I think he was talking about viewers, thinking about what the KeSPA guy said in about growth, like there was enormours growth in 2014 and some growth in 2015 when it comes to viewers (but never enough to support the scene if foreign tournaments fall away I don't think, also one has to remember the scene was almost dead coming into 2014)
The big problem I see currently, is that there is no incentive for new players to start playing professionally so it will fade away, which is kinda really sad
I can realistically see a future where GSL/SSL/Proleague are gone and Kespa is no longer involved in sc2, the ban on South Korean players playing in WCS is lifted and the game continues to live on in the foreign scene.
Of course in this future the level of play at the very top is much worse and very few Korean players are still playing sc2 professionally.
If wcs isnt really successful this year the future will be a dying game in 2017 and a dead game in 2018. Tbh at this point I've way more hope for bw in Korea
On January 20 2016 19:54 sagi wrote: If going back to StarTale isn't an option, they might as well rename themselves to "Sonic's Shoe Circus".
Just don't give free advertising like LG IM did... that didn't end well.
I simply don't understand how this idea can even come up in their mind, giving free advertising for a company that let you down is downright retard in my world... I suppose it's something about Korean culture that leads them to think otherwise...
On January 20 2016 19:07 REyeM wrote: I like how everyone is so focused on Korean region declining. Korean region IS competitive Starcraft.
Sure it is now, but given enough time with current conditions eventually Korea will become an amateur scene just as the foreign one is.
Right and when that happens we wont have anything
On January 20 2016 19:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Anyone who tries to blame this on WCS changes and not the rise of LoL in Korea and better take a good hard look in the mirror and appreciate just how dumb you are. This literally has nothing to do with WCS, and everything to do with sonic being a shady as fuck businessman and LoLs ridiculous dominance in popularity.
I think it's all a part of a plan conceived to brutally decentralize hardcore competition with the aim of creating more official leagues operating online, ultimately merging Korean and non-Korean scenes where there is no more need for a region lock. Also severing all ties with remains of KeSPA-style organization that can only go so far when the game is most popular and not being overtaken by games like League of Legends. All of it ultimately makes SC2 a reliable esport discipline that doesn't require great life and money sacrifices such as relocation given it's an individual game therefore making it less intimidating to enter and compete and more accessible around the world in the end. Then, great amount of money aimed at making all of it a weekly show in Korea (hiring girls to cheer, studios etc) goes to players sustaining the scene for very very long, while leaving the show-style of thing for important finals WCS Circuit-style.
It's a perfect plan until it turns out that more people only watch this game than play
EDIT: I wonder how many B-teamer salaries could be paid for the money that now goes for handling players' on-stage make up
On January 20 2016 20:53 OtherWorld wrote: Real question though, is about whether they'll wear new 'we need a sponsor' shirt of if they use the old one
I think they need to spend someone's salary on new, since old ones have not only StarTale logo, but also logo of YoeFlashWolves. Maybe this time they will have shoes with "we need a sponsor" label?
On January 20 2016 19:54 sagi wrote: If going back to StarTale isn't an option, they might as well rename themselves to "Sonic's Shoe Circus".
Just don't give free advertising like LG IM did... that didn't end well.
I simply don't understand how this idea can even come up in their mind, giving free advertising for a company that let you down is downright retard in my world... I suppose it's something about Korean culture that leads them to think otherwise...
Maybe they're hoping that it will get them more recognition?
New shirts are expensive, the old ones still got Yoe logo on em. Rebranding costs money and I dont see them spending any cent on anything not 100% important.
If they have SBENU on their shirts or not, for them it changes nothing. They look for a fast new title sponsor or they are dead anyway. And rebranding twice in 6th month (thats the time I give em without new title sponsor) is stupid. Also potential title sponsor will see, where their brand is shown.
The biggest problem will be: When they cant play in SPL, they wount find a title sponsor and stay dead. When they cant find a title sponsor and play in SPL, they will die and fall out of the league...
Shit situation. Give me money, I want to sponsor them.
On the SBENU case, i think they kept the name simply to improve their chances to take part in PL (having a name, the same one they always had), and to be recognized by fans, as mentioned above, no new shirts, name or whatever until they get a new sponsor. No new sponsor and they might disband soon. About giving free sponsorship, i guess its sad but they have priorities and don't really care as long as they can frickin play in PL...
On January 20 2016 21:59 Superbanana wrote: On the SBENU case, i think they kept the name simply to improve their chances to take part in PL (having a name, the same one they always had), and to be recognized by fans, as mentioned above, no new shirts, name or whatever until they get a new sponsor. No new sponsor and they might disband soon. About giving free sponsorship, i guess its sad but they have priorities and don't really care as long as they can frickin play in PL...
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
I'm really sad they didn't keep the same system from 2015 and then just added the SSL+GSL points system on top of it. 2015 Korean SC2 was a fucking blast man. It was amazing especially during that twilight zone during the last couple of months where HotS seemed to finally stabilise as a game.
SBENU representative said, "We agreed that SBENU stops sponsoring SC2 Team, We`ll settle balance soon." while stating "Nothing changes with LOL team."
Legend responded, "As it is known, sponsorship is done. However, we`ll keep our name SBENU till other naming sponsor appears. We want to participate in Proleague with new sponsor."
I read this as "We have some back-pay to catch up on, but we'll do that soon", which of course means, for SBENU and the state they are in right now "We will not pay you the back-pay". So that part confirms my fears that startale won't get the money they were promised even up to now, and may now be in debts and all kinds of troubles as they have planned with that money.
Does anyone have any actual information on that? More than the me speculating on 4 words from a SBENU representative...
On January 20 2016 18:00 Horiken wrote: I thought 2016 WCS system is OK, because Korean SC2 scene seems getting better and better since 2014. They have SSL/GSL and solid solid proleague, so i thought they can do well without foreign tournament. But after Prime matchfix and Sonic scandal, Korean SC2 is in huge trouble, new WCS system may be finishing blow.
I'm really sad they didn't keep the same system from 2015 and then just added the SSL+GSL points system on top of it. 2015 Korean SC2 was a fucking blast man. It was amazing especially during that twilight zone during the last couple of months where HotS seemed to finally stabilise as a game.
If only GSL/SSL has 3 seasons... This is my biggest disappointing point. I don't know this is Blizzard's decision or Afreeca/SPOTV's decision (I think the latter). I heard the rumor that WCS Premier is gone because ESL refused to run. Blizzard may have to try to run tournament by theirselves. MLG may help this?
I'm surprised for ST doesn't change back its name. I saw curious wearing that old "we need sponsor" black shirt during Bomber's stream on Douyu. I expected they would change back to ST.
On January 20 2016 23:15 SystemXN wrote: I'm surprised for ST doesn't change back its name. I saw curious wearing that old "we need sponsor" black shirt during Bomber's stream on Douyu. I expected they would change back to ST.
lotv and new wcs is really looking like the final blow done to sc2. most bungled esport title? Id have to give that nod to cs source, but sc2 is a whole different example of incompetence. Shame we cant really discuss these issues here seriously though.
No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh? I´m just mad at Sonic and if I had to choose between droping my lol team or Sc2 team I would drop my Sc2 team aswell. Where are the Pitchforks guys, can´t we just be sad and torch SBENU for a bit?
On January 20 2016 23:25 HugoBallzak wrote: lotv and new wcs is really looking like the final blow done to sc2. most bungled esport title? Id have to give that nod to cs source, but sc2 is a whole different example of incompetence. Shame we cant really discuss these issues here seriously though.
I heard you didn't play SC2 anymore, CS:GO could use your passion
On January 20 2016 23:25 HugoBallzak wrote: lotv and new wcs is really looking like the final blow done to sc2. most bungled esport title? Id have to give that nod to cs source, but sc2 is a whole different example of incompetence. Shame we cant really discuss these issues here seriously though.
I don't know new wcs is success or false( because it's just started), at least I can say lotv is better game than wol/hots.
Things are looking good for brood war though. Again, similar to cs source, the original and more well polished esport outlasts the new kid on the block despite the marketing and hype. it all boils down to the competitive gameplay and viability in the end.
On January 20 2016 23:25 HugoBallzak wrote: lotv and new wcs is really looking like the final blow done to sc2. most bungled esport title? Id have to give that nod to cs source, but sc2 is a whole different example of incompetence. Shame we cant really discuss these issues here seriously though.
I don't know new wcs is success or false( because it's just started), at least I can say lotv is better game than wol/hots.
I disagree. lotv feels like an unrefined amateur custom game. Cool concepts but really bad execution.
On January 20 2016 23:34 HugoBallzak wrote: Things are looking good for brood war though. Again, similar to cs source, the original and more well polished esport outlasts the new kid on the block despite the marketing and hype. it all boils down to the competitive gameplay and viability in the end.
Hey hey we are just losing biggest brood war sponsor now! how is this good for brood war?
On January 20 2016 23:25 HugoBallzak wrote: lotv and new wcs is really looking like the final blow done to sc2. most bungled esport title? Id have to give that nod to cs source, but sc2 is a whole different example of incompetence. Shame we cant really discuss these issues here seriously though.
I don't know new wcs is success or false( because it's just started), at least I can say lotv is better game than wol/hots.
I disagree. lotv feels like an unrefined amateur custom game. Cool concepts but really bad execution.
No, people haven't fully figured the game out. It needs time, and clearly it's getting better. Today's GSL proves it imo.
Very sad but hardly surprising Kinda sad that all the lower/poorer teams seem to be falling off while SKT could probably field a second 4-man squad and make it to playoffs with both
the solution for this should be letting SKT buy them and let them become SKT T2 or let Blizzard/David Kim sponsor it and call them team Adept, Bomber would approve but in all seriousness, I think SBENU is a team with a lot of potential and young talents, if team SBENU dies then we just lose most of our hopes for new blood
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh? I´m just mad at Sonic and if I had to choose between droping my lol team or Sc2 team I would drop my Sc2 team aswell. Where are the Pitchforks guys, can´t we just be sad and torch SBENU for a bit?
Well first SBENU dumped their BW Starleague over their Sc2 sponsorships, now they dump that to keep their Lol sponsorship. It makes sense ofc, Lol is the biggest game in Korea, but it's sad.
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh? I´m just mad at Sonic and if I had to choose between droping my lol team or Sc2 team I would drop my Sc2 team aswell. Where are the Pitchforks guys, can´t we just be sad and torch SBENU for a bit?
Well first SBENU dumped their BW Starleague over their Sc2 sponsorships, now they dump that to keep their Lol sponsorship. It makes sense ofc, Lol is the biggest game in Korea, but it's sad.
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh?
Don't be silly. The WCS changes are far, FAR worse
Seriously though. I kind of get where KeSPA is coming from and there's really two people to blame if SBENU are locked out of Proleague. Sonic of course...and Gerard.
I think that's the problem, not the fact that SBENU might fold, I don't think KeSPA would allow that to happen if they let them play , but they're scared of another PRIME scenario. An noncompetitive team, short on money that figures it's going to lose any way and with the changes to the scene there's not much hope anywhere else, why not make some money before I go?
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
They announced that they spend over 4M to Heroes, which is at the moment performing worse then starcraft, so money is there.
The general news about sc2 are kind of depressing as a sc2 fan. It doesn´t really get better. Apart of the new team apocalypse gaming (we will see how this turns out) it seems like no investment what so ever is beeing made into sc2. I expected a big viewer influx for LotV, like a new reboot, trying to get sc2 big again, not like LoL or DotA, but you know what i mean. I felt LotV was a good game with potential to be more attractive for casual enjoyment, but apart the lackluster Dreamhack and an okay HSC last year, tournaments are taking a terrible long time to start the new year. The biggest mistake was the late (as fcking) always WCS 2016 announcement, making it for organizer really hard. The WCS system is weird and even progamers are confused about where to play, how to qualify etc. I am just really disappointed about pretty much everything right now and how this game is handled.
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
They announced that they spend over 4M to Heroes, which is at the moment performing worse then starcraft, so money is there.
Yes, but the problem is that they consider it a 1v1 not a team game. The whole team concept was developed under KeSPA's system back in BW and was moved on to SC2.
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
They announced that they spend over 4M to Heroes, which is at the moment performing worse then starcraft, so money is there.
Heroes is making money off microtransactions, though. Was just reading a Forbes article about it.
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
They announced that they spend over 4M to Heroes, which is at the moment performing worse then starcraft, so money is there.
I don't think HotS is perfoming worse than SC2... at least they have far more playerbase. In the long run, HotS will earn more money than SC2 thx to microtransaction, that is why Blizz is investing so much money into HotS.
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
They announced that they spend over 4M to Heroes, which is at the moment performing worse then starcraft, so money is there.
Yes, but the problem is that they consider it a 1v1 not a team game. The whole team concept was developed under KeSPA's system back in BW and was moved on to SC2.
Therein lies the entire problem, really. No one outside of Korea - players, teams, tournaments, Blizzard - has ever really realized how important teams are to making a real pro scene.
On January 21 2016 00:45 imCHIEN wrote: I really hope Blizzard marketing team will do something. Even Hearthstone has more viewer than Sc2 and Sponsors they doesn't care about the game. 😐
Unfortunately, Blizzard does not support teams for StarCraft...
They announced that they spend over 4M to Heroes, which is at the moment performing worse then starcraft, so money is there.
Yes, but the problem is that they consider it a 1v1 not a team game. The whole team concept was developed under KeSPA's system back in BW and was moved on to SC2.
Therein lies the entire problem, really. No one outside of Korea - players, teams, tournaments, Blizzard - has ever really realized how important teams are to making a real pro scene.
The only team league ever existed and is considered a serious thing was ProLeague managed by KeSPA, Blizzard had to create something similar for foreigner team to participate in for money prizes and create a team atmosphere in general. Players now join team for the sake of having a sponsor not getting practice and coaching. How many coaches do the foreign team have? Literally 0.
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh? I´m just mad at Sonic and if I had to choose between droping my lol team or Sc2 team I would drop my Sc2 team aswell. Where are the Pitchforks guys, can´t we just be sad and torch SBENU for a bit?
Well, the WCS format is not to blame that the team is in trouble, but it is that the players are. Koreans that didn't qualify for SSL or GSL and are not in Proleague are just screwed now. So basically, if StarTale does not get a new sponsor... guess where their players are going.
I still don't get why they're continuing with the Sbenu name, even though their agreement seems to be completely over. Is it because KeSPA is concerned with rebranding costs on their end and that's why they don't want them to become Startale again, threatening to run ProLeague with only 6 teams. It's just all very strange.
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh?
Don't be silly. The WCS changes are far, FAR worse
Seriously though. I kind of get where KeSPA is coming from and there's really two people to blame if SBENU are locked out of Proleague. Sonic of course...and Gerard.
I think that's the problem, not the fact that SBENU might fold, I don't think KeSPA would allow that to happen if they let them play , but they're scared of another PRIME scenario. An noncompetitive team, short on money that figures it's going to lose any way and with the changes to the scene there's not much hope anywhere else, why not make some money before I go?
Yeah that's what i figured too. Gerard doing his best to kill of SC2 in Korea.
On January 21 2016 02:00 IceBerrY wrote: The general news about sc2 are kind of depressing as a sc2 fan. It doesn´t really get better. Apart of the new team apocalypse gaming (we will see how this turns out) it seems like no investment what so ever is beeing made into sc2. I expected a big viewer influx for LotV, like a new reboot, trying to get sc2 big again, not like LoL or DotA, but you know what i mean. I felt LotV was a good game with potential to be more attractive for casual enjoyment, but apart the lackluster Dreamhack and an okay HSC last year, tournaments are taking a terrible long time to start the new year. The biggest mistake was the late (as fcking) always WCS 2016 announcement, making it for organizer really hard. The WCS system is weird and even progamers are confused about where to play, how to qualify etc. I am just really disappointed about pretty much everything right now and how this game is handled.
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh?
Don't be silly. The WCS changes are far, FAR worse
Seriously though. I kind of get where KeSPA is coming from and there's really two people to blame if SBENU are locked out of Proleague. Sonic of course...and Gerard.
I think that's the problem, not the fact that SBENU might fold, I don't think KeSPA would allow that to happen if they let them play , but they're scared of another PRIME scenario. An noncompetitive team, short on money that figures it's going to lose any way and with the changes to the scene there's not much hope anywhere else, why not make some money before I go?
Yeah that's what i figured too. Gerard doing his best to kill of SC2 in Korea.
To be fair that's kinda silly to blame Gerrard and Sonic for all of Korean SC2's troubles. Matchfixing scandals didn't kill football in Italy, NASCAR in the US, and it won't kill international Tennis. The real reason we've got a 6-team PL is to be found somewhere else, Gerrard and Sonic only made it happen in 2016 rather than 2017 or 2018.
On January 20 2016 23:28 Lemartes wrote: No matter what happens, everyone is blaming the new wcs system... If North Korea nukes the South tomorrow it´s also the new WCS that weakend Korea so much that Kim Jong Un saw his chance eh?
Don't be silly. The WCS changes are far, FAR worse
Seriously though. I kind of get where KeSPA is coming from and there's really two people to blame if SBENU are locked out of Proleague. Sonic of course...and Gerard.
I think that's the problem, not the fact that SBENU might fold, I don't think KeSPA would allow that to happen if they let them play , but they're scared of another PRIME scenario. An noncompetitive team, short on money that figures it's going to lose any way and with the changes to the scene there's not much hope anywhere else, why not make some money before I go?
Yeah that's what i figured too. Gerard doing his best to kill of SC2 in Korea.
To be fair that's kinda silly to blame Gerrard and Sonic for all of Korean SC2's troubles. Matchfixing scandals didn't kill football in Italy, NASCAR in the US, and it won't kill international Tennis. The real reason we've got a 6-team PL is to be found somewhere else, Gerrard and Sonic only made it happen in 2016 rather than 2017 or 2018.
I wasn't blaming them for all the troubles of Korean SC2. Merely SBENU's troubles and why there might be hesitation in putting them in Proleague without a sponsor. While match fixing scandals haven't killed off SC2 another scandal might put it into BW territory as an esport in Korea.
I don't blame them for the troubles currently in the scene as a whole. The majority of that upheaval lies in the letters W, C and S
You can understand why KeSPA is reluctant to let Startale play again. Last time a team wasn't getting paid look what happened. If it was to happen again you could pretty much write off Proleague and thus KR SC2 i reckon. And that's due to Gerard and his being a knob. If Prime had just been losing legit and then disbanded I'm sure KeSPA would be more willing to allow Startale the chance to keep playing, bit as it is they can't afford another scandal.
Sad but inevitable once news broke about Sonic's sham. Despite my hero DRG leaving (after quietly dominating PL last season), was really excited to see the former Startale team in 2016. They had an exciting mesh of old talent and young potential. Thought Keen and Leenock were overlooked pickups with big potential upside.
Really hope their team is able to still compete even if it requires KESPA to initially support them until a viable sponsor can take over. Sounds like a terrible situation for all their players who probably aren't even going to get paid their past due wages let alone having a now unknown present and future down to the very basics of living situation and operating expenses.
Seemed hard enough to add an 8th team for PL before this happened. Now anything other than six teams to start the season would be shocking. Crummy all around, since PL is a much better place with more competitive teams providing opportunities for all the talented players, especially newcomers which the game so desperately needs to grow. Just don't want to see something like last year where Prime (honorable mention to STY in R2 being sponsorless ) was left out to dry and their players completely forsaken. Which tainted the prestige and most importantly, the legitimacy of PL even before the final betrayals.
honestly, blizzards need new way to introduce starcraft 2... it's just a shame to see a game like starcraft go to waste just bcuz majority of people hate using their brains.
sad news for SC2 fan. I don't play anymore but still follow the pro scene esp. ProLeague, I hope we get at least 2 more years of PL in SC2 before everything go up in flame lol.
EPT
