SSL will now have a full Loser's bracket from Loser's Round 1 that consists of the players defeated from Ro16.
Schedule: Jan 14th: remains the same Jan 21st: 4th week of Ro16's games will be played also. Jan 28th: Losers Bracket Round 1 games Feb 4th: Winners Ro8 game 1 and 2 Feb 11th: Winners Ro8 game 3 and 4 Feb 18th: Losers Round 2 games Feb 25th: Winners Ro4 Games March 3rd: Losers Round 3 March 10th: Losers Rounnd 4 March 17th: Losers Semi-final March 24th: Winners final March 31st: Losers final April 9th: Grand final
*The winner of winners final will choose the first map of the grand final.
If you are a fan of Soo or Innovation, there may be good news. All the Ro16 games are now going to be a double elimination.
...
One e-sports associates said "because games end way too early, they will change the Ro16 to a double elimination groups of 4. Already agreed by the first week's players and their teams."
Another explained, "As it has been only a short time since the release of the LoTV, they are trying to make it have more games, but still Blizzard's last confirmation is needed."
And another one, " If you watch the first week's games, you can check that the games got significantly shorter. The whole games took only about an hour. Fans complained about the (single elimination) Bo3 format, and after some careful examination, it was decided. "
"Blizzard also confirmed that the rule change is being considered, 'the last moment mediation is remaining. We will do our best to make go through the best way. '
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
2. RIP INnoVation, soO, they were sacrifices that Legacy of the Void demanded.
edit: or would this mean Group A comes back to finish out their bracket? The cynic in me didn't even consider this as a possibility, but the quote in OP is totally vague on this.
Isn't SSL tomorrow? It hought the last games were last Thursday. Can't find anything in the calendar. Actually can't find any information anywhere (google etc.).
I'd prefer something more tasty with bacon and extra fries, but i guess kespa is not in charge of that and a free upgrade to double cheeseburger is kind of nice
On January 13 2016 11:15 Big J wrote: I'd prefer something more tasty with bacon and extra fries, but i guess kespa is not in charge of that and a free upgrade to double cheeseburger is kind of nice
I asked for a double cheeseburger, but they gave me 2 single cheeseburgers instead, and I said "Eh, good enough", because I figured they're just some weird foreigners who don't know what a double cheeseburger is.
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
Hopefully seeding for losers bracket is changed up so it's not as awkward as winner of soO/INno up against loser of RagnaroK/ByuN in the next losers round
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
BO1??? How could they even consider that...
I can't believe that's actually true. If they wanted to do BO1 they might as well not do the tournament in the first place.
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
BO1??? How could they even consider that...
I can't believe that's actually true. If they wanted to do BO1 they might as well not do the tournament in the first place.
Some days would have literally been PvZ 6 pool, PvT Oracle, the end.
Blizzard insisting on bo5... they must have been in panic mode after realizing the full shrinkage that is 2016 Korea.
Well, this suddenly got a lot better. It's actually kind of cool they decided to change to a much better format. Even if it's already into the tournament.
And I also see that Bo5 is taking over rapidly, which is good. With LOTV games taking -5 minutes each less, pretty much at minimum, a normal 4 Game Bo5 will take generally less than a previous 3 game Bo3 did. That's good.
I didn't think they would change the Ro16 format yet since games were already played, but looks like I was wrong and the players were completely okay with it.
Is this fair though? I mean for Ragnarok and Byun who won eliminated their opponents fair and square. Seems unprofessional to me changing the brackets like that after season started. I wouldn't be too happy if I were in the shoes of the other players still in the tournaments.
On January 13 2016 14:00 RichardNPL wrote: Is this fair though?
Is it fair that a game ships imbalanced, and certain players playing certain MUs have to lose so it can get better?
I'm sure whatever annoyance ByuN and RagnaroK feel for innovation and soO getting a second chance is offset by the fact that now they, too, will have a second chance when they lose.
On January 13 2016 14:13 DJThwomp wrote: I dont understand why they arent made bo5 now that games are way shorter...
It seems that SpoTV has no interest in doing anywhere near as much SC2 as they did last year.
But even if the recent backlash did convince them otherwise, changing the Bo format mid-season is a lot tougher than just adding a losers bracket. What do they do about Group A, count the results as is? Replay from scratch? Finish off the series from where they left off? There's no neat solution.
I'm happy with these changes. Not sure what SpoTV's reasoning for pursuing Bo1s.. I really detested those OSL Bo1s in the Ro32. with LOTV they should be more liberal with Bo5s/Bo7s.
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
When i said I thought it should be bo5, not only did i mean in this tournament... It seems that a bo5 in lotv would take almost the same average time as a hots bo3, with the added benefit of the better player having a greater chance at winning...
To me, it is just plain logical, yet i have heard no discussion about this from ppl in positions that matter... Boggles my mind...
On January 13 2016 16:45 DJThwomp wrote: When i said I thought it should be bo5, not only did i mean in this tournament... It seems that a bo5 in lotv would take almost the same average time as a hots bo3, with the added benefit of the better player having a greater chance at winning...
To me, it is just plain logical, yet i have heard no discussion about this from ppl in positions that matter... Boggles my mind...
As this thread demonstrates, these discussions absolutely are taking place. They're just taking place behind closed doors where fans have zero access and input. To us these might be questions of tournament and competitive integrity, but to some of the owners and investors involved, they're just questions of money. "Can we make more by running fewer games and more commercials? Can we phase out SC2 in favor of other games?"
That SpoTV reacted this quickly and this strongly to fan backlash bodes pretty well for fans in the long run, I think.
This is good news for the korean sc2 scene ! Even tho think the korean scene will struggle this year with so little to play for :/ Hopefully there will be a few "smaller tourneys" in between the GSL and SSL seasons.
One more victory for the (fictional) Players' Union ! edit : though changing a tournament format after it started is clearly a sign of bad organization and panic-mode
I wonder why the format from 2015 (ro16 groups & ro8 single elim) needed to change in the first place. But of course now a full double elimination is nice because you can mess up once in ro8-ro4 as well and bracket luck plays a lesser role.
On January 13 2016 13:38 Draconicfire wrote: Bo1? That would've been a terrible idea.
This is much better.
I agree. Bo1 is a terrible idea no matter what imo. Too much luck involved. Spawning locations, build-orders etc.
...the important question is how the hell did they come up with this idea for something as big as the SSL? even regarding possible commercials/ads venues it makes absolutely no sense...
I like the new format more but changing the format of a tournament after the tournament has already started just reeks of unprofessionalism to me. How about you just start off with a reasonable format in the first place?
On January 13 2016 18:35 ClysmiC wrote: I like the new format more but changing the format of a tournament after the tournament has already started just reeks of unprofessionalism to me. How about you just start off with a reasonable format in the first place?
... they were convinced their format was reasonable but were convinced to change it by the way the first broadcast turned out?
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I thought the single elimination was there to stay no matter what we say, it's pretty cool to see the SKT players back (inb4 they lose again and be out of the competition for good)
On January 13 2016 21:28 NinjaToss wrote: I thought the single elimination was there to stay no matter what we say, it's pretty cool to see the SKT players back (inb4 they lose again and be out of the competition for good)
They're playing each other, one of them is out already
On January 13 2016 21:28 NinjaToss wrote: I thought the single elimination was there to stay no matter what we say, it's pretty cool to see the SKT players back (inb4 they lose again and be out of the competition for good)
They're playing each other, one of them is out already
ah you're right, I forgot they were playing each other, but I guess one game is better than nothing. Hard one since I like both of them
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
Lovely! Also I think the winner of winners bracket choosing the first map in the finals is probably the best way it's ever been done. Playing from 1 map up, or starting 2-1, or 2-0 was simply too much and made for a shitty finals.
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:41 cheekymonkey wrote: F double elimination. I just despise this format.
Wait so you don't like single elimination and you dislike double elimination? :O
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:41 cheekymonkey wrote: F double elimination. I just despise this format.
Wait so you don't like single elimination and you dislike double elimination? :O
I mean bo1 single elimination. bo3's into bo5's is pretty much standard at this point. GSL even has/had group stages with bo3's, which is/was pretty good. It's just too sad to see great players knocked out by chance. I hate double elimination too, because it makes for such an anticlimactic grand finals.
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:41 cheekymonkey wrote: F double elimination. I just despise this format.
Wait so you don't like single elimination and you dislike double elimination? :O
I mean bo1 single elimination. bo3's into bo5's is pretty much standard at this point. GSL even has/had group stages with bo3's, which is/was pretty good. It's just too sad to see great players knocked out by chance. I hate double elimination too, because it makes for such an anticlimactic grand finals.
Why does it make for anticlimactic grand finals? Because there's a chance you see the same series in the semifinals? I dunno, I like a good comeback story.
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:41 cheekymonkey wrote: F double elimination. I just despise this format.
Wait so you don't like single elimination and you dislike double elimination? :O
I mean bo1 single elimination. bo3's into bo5's is pretty much standard at this point. GSL even has/had group stages with bo3's, which is/was pretty good. It's just too sad to see great players knocked out by chance. I hate double elimination too, because it makes for such an anticlimactic grand finals.
Why does it make for anticlimactic grand finals? Because there's a chance you see the same series in the semifinals?
Partly, but also because it's a like a dual tournament featuring the lesser players, which I don't find that interesting, even though the winner will be a finalist. I just dislike the dynamic, IMO a tournament should be a linear progression to the top. Maybe I'm just scarred from past MLG formats, where the loser bracket finals got a 0-2 /0-3 initial score or something because he faced off against the "real" finalist previously. THAT's an anticlimactic finals.
Thats a good format change. The best they could do after the 2 games of the stupid bo3 format have been played already. Next season, they can rethink their format again.
On January 13 2016 22:07 Clonester wrote: Thats a good format change. The best they could do after the 2 games of the stupid bo3 format have been played already. Next season, they can rethink their format again.
What does this say? Pls it's too early in the morning to try to google guess korean
It's the schedule
Jan 7: Rag vs Inno, ByuN vs soO Jan 14: ByuL vs Trust, Soulkey vs Solar Jan 21: Other Ro16 matches Jan 28: loser bracket 1st round Feb 4: Ro8 matches 1 and 2 Feb 11: Ro8 matches 3 and 4 Feb 18: loser bracket 2nd round Feb 25: semifinals March 3: loser bracket 3rd round March 10: loser bracket 4th round March 17: loser bracket decider March 24: winner bracket final March 31: loser final April 9: Grand Finals
On January 13 2016 23:15 SeriousLus wrote: it takes 4 months???????????? to finish a ro16!?!?!?!?!? tournament? holy cow
Well, it's double elimination, that takes some time. And they only get 2 seasons per year. So they have to stretch.
On January 13 2016 23:14 MrMischelito wrote: Maybe, if the map pool becomes more stable and rounded they can consider making it all bo7 series. Games are generally shorter in lotv anyways...
They're not that much shorter. In the most recent BO69 the game time averaged ~14 minutes in 49 games in LotV. A previous BO69 in HotS averaged ~17 minutes.
What does this say? Pls it's too early in the morning to try to google guess korean
It's the schedule
Jan 7: Rag vs Inno, ByuN vs soO Jan 14: ByuL vs Trust, Soulkey vs Solar Jan 21: Other Ro16 matches Jan 28: loser bracket 1st round Feb 4: Ro8 matches 1 and 2 Feb 11: Ro8 matches 3 and 4 Feb 18: loser bracket 2nd round Feb 25: semifinals March 3: loser bracket 3rd round March 10: loser bracket 4th round March 17: loser bracket decider March 24: winner bracket final March 31: loser final April 9: Grand Finals
On January 13 2016 23:14 MrMischelito wrote: Maybe, if the map pool becomes more stable and rounded they can consider making it all bo7 series. Games are generally shorter in lotv anyways...
They're not that much shorter. In the most recent BO69 the game time averaged ~14 minutes in 49 games in LotV. A previous BO69 in HotS averaged ~17 minutes.
Did you convert HotS minutes to LotV minutes or vice versa though?
What does this say? Pls it's too early in the morning to try to google guess korean
It's the schedule
Jan 7: Rag vs Inno, ByuN vs soO Jan 14: ByuL vs Trust, Soulkey vs Solar Jan 21: Other Ro16 matches Jan 28: loser bracket 1st round Feb 4: Ro8 matches 1 and 2 Feb 11: Ro8 matches 3 and 4 Feb 18: loser bracket 2nd round Feb 25: semifinals March 3: loser bracket 3rd round March 10: loser bracket 4th round March 17: loser bracket decider March 24: winner bracket final March 31: loser final April 9: Grand Finals
On January 13 2016 23:15 SeriousLus wrote: it takes 4 months???????????? to finish a ro16!?!?!?!?!? tournament? holy cow
Well, it's double elimination, that takes some time. And they only get 2 seasons per year. So they have to stretch.
On January 13 2016 23:14 MrMischelito wrote: Maybe, if the map pool becomes more stable and rounded they can consider making it all bo7 series. Games are generally shorter in lotv anyways...
They're not that much shorter. In the most recent BO69 the game time averaged ~14 minutes in 49 games in LotV. A previous BO69 in HotS averaged ~17 minutes.
Did you convert HotS minutes to LotV minutes or vice versa though?
Approximated game length via broadcast length, provided by Feardragon. Maybe both should be a bit shorter because he didn't calculate without breaks afaik.
On January 13 2016 22:07 Clonester wrote: Thats a good format change. The best they could do after the 2 games of the stupid bo3 format have been played already. Next season, they can rethink their format again.
According to another source, "http://m.sports.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=311&aid=0000565684", Spotv at first wanted Bo1 format, and after negotiating with Blizzard who wanted it Bo5, it became Bo3.
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:41 cheekymonkey wrote: F double elimination. I just despise this format.
Wait so you don't like single elimination and you dislike double elimination? :O
Triple elimination is the answer
Problem is with grand finals. If we have grand final with one player coming unbeatable and the other with 2 loses what will you do? Give 2 series advantage to a player? Hardly a final. Make it even? Hardly fair (though given the different amount of games played maybe it is)
On January 13 2016 17:44 cheekymonkey wrote: They actually considered bo.1? I don't think that would make a legitimate tournament in sc2. More like a joke tournament.
Bo1 was used in Brood War OSL Ro16s and in the WoL OSL Ro16. Granted, those were 4 player round robin groups, so each player played three games. But that still makes Bo1 carry the air of skillfullness.
I remember the WoL OSL, and it had a pretty lousy format as well IMO. But single elimination is something else entirely, and pretty much absurd given the variance of the game at this point.
On January 13 2016 17:41 cheekymonkey wrote: F double elimination. I just despise this format.
Wait so you don't like single elimination and you dislike double elimination? :O
Triple elimination is the answer
Problem is with grand finals. If we have grand final with one player coming unbeatable and the other with 2 loses what will you do? Give 2 series advantage to a player? Hardly a final. Make it even? Hardly fair (though given the different amount of games played maybe it is)
EPT![[image loading]](http://game.xportsnews.com/contents/images/upload/article/2016/0113/1452655555697.jpg)
Go soO!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T8UeCEr.png)
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