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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 09 2016 03:23 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 01:22 mierin wrote:On January 08 2016 22:15 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 08 2016 21:44 aQuaSC wrote:Out of curiosity - how this quoted statement, "I'm already close to the level I had" would look like if it was said by a native English speaker? Just wondering  "I'm already close to my old level", I think. Or "The level I was at". Natives wouldn't end sentences with prepositions... ...or sadly enough we would, haha. From one of my favorite plays. Show nested quote +HOSTESS Ah, there you are at last, Nepommuck. Have you found out all about the Doolittle lady?
NEPOMMUCK I have found out all about her. She is a fraud.
HOSTESS A fraud! Oh, no.
NEPOMMUCK Yes, yes. She cannot deceive me. Her name cannot be Doolittle.
HIGGINS Why?
NEPOMMUCK Because Doolittle is an English name. And she is not English.
HOSTESS Oh, nonsense! She speaks English perfectly.
NEPOMMUCK Too perfectly. Can you show me any English woman who speaks English as it should be spoken? Only foreigners who have been taught to speak it speak it well.
HOSTESS Certainly she terrified me by the way she said How d'ye do. I had a schoolmistress who talked like that; and I was mortally afraid of her. But if she is not English what is she?
NEPOMMUCK Hungarian.
ALL THE REST Hungarian!
NEPOMMUCK Hungarian. And of royal blood. I am Hungarian. My blood is royal.
Haha I'd only seen a small part of that before, makes me want to look the actual play up now.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 09 2016 05:17 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 04:57 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Clearly you haven't seen WoL MC PvP. It was easily his weakest matchup at the time and I am pretty sure PvZ has statistically been his best? Remember we talking about MLG Orlando 2011 here You're incredibly incorrect. Check his stats- his best matchup till 2013 was PvP. MC excelled in the aggresive microfest that PvP was before it became standardized. http://aligulac.com/players/36-MC/
Yeah, MC was considered unbeatable PvP until he lost to Seed (it was seed right?) in GSL finals.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Yea it was Seed. I still find it funny that SangHo thought he could beat Inca.
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cmon youve made us wait long enough, reveal!!11
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On January 09 2016 11:10 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:42 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 07:32 Cyro wrote:
You don't become the most successful (in terms of $$ earned) sc2 pro with pvp as your best matchup if you're bad at pvp Were you only ever talking about his skill level in PvP? If so, then I'm not qualified to argue. But your statement about absolute skill sounded a lot broader than that. On January 09 2016 07:41 jmbthirteen wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40. My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. so you are arguing that MC isn't one of the most skilled sc2 players of all time? Define "one of." herO, Zest, sOs, PartinG, Rain, Classic, Dear, and Stats are all much more skilled Protoss players. MC has a limited skillset which works wonders for him when the game is new (WoL, start of HotS, start of LotV) or during weekend tournaments with no room for preparation. Today yes, but MC won 2 GSL and was without a doubt the best protoss in WoL.
There are a lot of flattering ways to describe a player, eg "the best" or "the most successful" or "the most skilled" and they aren't all synonyms. Hell, you could even break "most successful" down into financial success and prestige. MC is the most financially successful Protoss to date. In terms of prestige, though, his results all come either from WoL (by far the easiest expansion) or foreign weekend tournaments, whereas someone like sOs got two Blizzcons and a Korean Hot6ix Cup all in HotS, which are much more prestigious victories IMO.
MC can be the best Protoss in WoL and still not be one of the most skilled Protoss of all time. The skill level of the game rises all the time. The 32nd best GSL player in 2016's s1 is still more skilled in terms of mechanics and multitasking than 90% of anyone who played in 2011.
Do people call Boxer the most skilled Terran of BW? Of course not, because he wasn't, even though he may have been the most influential.
On January 09 2016 11:20 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. What? Who are you exactly to dispute MC's skill level? An armchair SC2 pro scene expert? MC is a SC2 legend. When he was wrecking nerds and winnings GSLs, there was not a single other Protoss anywhere in the world, who could even compare. The race was in a terrible state back then. MC was the player who showed the rest how to properly play the race.
Everything I said above applies in response to you, but also: lol, "who am I to dispute his skill level"? How about a person who lives in a country with free speech? Would you like to do away with all power ranks and GOAT lists, or just the ones with whose results you personally disagree?
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
MC can be the best Protoss in WoL and still not be one of the most skilled Protoss of all time. The skill level of the game rises all the time
The discussion isn't about MC in 2016 - It's about MC in WOL, and it's over from the statistics on the last page (win ratio's and earnings)
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On January 09 2016 12:30 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +MC can be the best Protoss in WoL and still not be one of the most skilled Protoss of all time. The skill level of the game rises all the time The discussion isn't about MC in 2016 - It's about MC in WOL, and it's over from the statistics on the last page (win ratio's and earnings)
Quoting myself from the previous page:
"Were you only ever talking about his skill level in PvP? If so, then I'm not qualified to argue. But your statement about absolute skill sounded a lot broader than that. "
I misunderstood your original intent (you have to admit your language was vague), so I was not talking about MC in the context of WoL/PvP/whatever historic context you want to look at. I assume that anyone who continues to disagree with me understands that and disagrees about my opinion on MC in the context of SC2 as a whole.
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On January 09 2016 04:10 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 04:01 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 03:51 BronzeKnee wrote:On January 09 2016 02:19 HugoBallzak wrote:
Can anyone imagine what a 100% committed stephano can do to a WCS roster lacking any top level Koreans? Stephano is smart enough to realize the kind of money he can make in 2016 before this game completely fizzles out. Pretty sure his education can hold off for a year. We don't need to imagine. It happened. Stephano beat everyone. On January 09 2016 02:27 InfCereal wrote:On January 09 2016 02:26 A_needle_jog wrote:On January 09 2016 02:19 HugoBallzak wrote:
Can anyone imagine what a 100% committed stephano can do to a WCS roster lacking any top level Koreans? Stephano is smart enough to realize the kind of money he can make in 2016 before this game completely fizzles out. Pretty sure his education can hold off for a year. Maybe LOTV might not be suited to Stephano well. It could happen that even with training he will not be ever good again. Look at HuK. There was a time where he was really good and now he is bad because game changed so much and his style is impacted by it. Same could happen to Stephano. Huk's not bad, he just has no results. He's still a good player, and easily one of the best NA players. No results? Were you born yesterday? Yeah winning an MLG chock full of Code S Koreans and going through them like a hot knife thru butter is definitely no results. We're talking about beating MC, MKP and July (among others) in their prime for SC2. You must be trolling. They're talking about LotV HuK, yo. Besides MKP hadn't hit his peak at that point, MC was horrid at PvP. Honestly from what I saw the biggest challenge for HuK that MLG was STC
MC was horrid at PvP? Oh boi, you need a history lesson.
Sorry I started this whole discussion. Someone ignorantly said Huk had no results and I reminded them of MLG Orlando, where Huk went thru a slew of Code S Koreans, including MC, the PvP master, in his prime.
Apparently they meant to say only in LOTV, which is also a pretty ignorant statement because LOTV just began and we've only had a handful of tournaments. Tons of good players have "no results" in LOTV at this point, and that doesn't mean they are bad.
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Should this player reveal himself in todays DH qualies? Both, eu and us are today.
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On January 09 2016 18:57 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
Should this player reveal himself in todays DH qualies? Both, eu and us are today.
Unless he's invited, a barcode or a ladder hero, I'd say yes
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Socke is streaming right now so maybe...
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I thought it was already safe to say that Vortix and Lucifron play SC2 again
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I'm much more hyped if it's Vortix than any other names in this thread, because I can actually see VortiX come back to being one of the best foreigners again
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On January 09 2016 19:30 Boysetsfire wrote:
Socke is streaming right now so maybe...
...but he said on stream it isn't him
+ Show Spoiler +but maybe more heroes player are coming back, not only the myserious Mr X Kaelaris mentioned...believe!
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On January 09 2016 20:24 Boysetsfire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 19:30 Boysetsfire wrote:
Socke is streaming right now so maybe... ...but he said on stream it isn't him + Show Spoiler +but maybe more heroes player are coming back, not only the myserious Mr X Kaelaris mentioned...believe!
I don't follow Heroes, is that game not doing well for players to switch?
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On January 09 2016 20:38 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 20:24 Boysetsfire wrote:On January 09 2016 19:30 Boysetsfire wrote:
Socke is streaming right now so maybe... ...but he said on stream it isn't him + Show Spoiler +but maybe more heroes player are coming back, not only the myserious Mr X Kaelaris mentioned...believe! I don't follow Heroes, is that game not doing well for players to switch?
I don't follow Heroes either so idk, but i know that some of the players who switched from Sc2 never switched completely (White Ra, Suppy, Dimaga). And Starcraft is the game they played the most (competitive) so some of them might consider to switch back especially with the changes lotv and the new WCS system brought with. Maybe their hopes in heroes where higher but idk. The players who started with Broodwar might be the most likely ones to consider coming back to lotv, but that doesn't mean they will play it super competitive.
Also players who tried other Moba's switched back (at least partly) like Naniwa (LOL) or Scarlett (Dota2).
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No updates yet? Just teasing, eh?
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On January 09 2016 13:50 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 04:10 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 09 2016 04:01 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 03:51 BronzeKnee wrote:On January 09 2016 02:19 HugoBallzak wrote:
Can anyone imagine what a 100% committed stephano can do to a WCS roster lacking any top level Koreans? Stephano is smart enough to realize the kind of money he can make in 2016 before this game completely fizzles out. Pretty sure his education can hold off for a year. We don't need to imagine. It happened. Stephano beat everyone. On January 09 2016 02:27 InfCereal wrote:On January 09 2016 02:26 A_needle_jog wrote:On January 09 2016 02:19 HugoBallzak wrote:
Can anyone imagine what a 100% committed stephano can do to a WCS roster lacking any top level Koreans? Stephano is smart enough to realize the kind of money he can make in 2016 before this game completely fizzles out. Pretty sure his education can hold off for a year. Maybe LOTV might not be suited to Stephano well. It could happen that even with training he will not be ever good again. Look at HuK. There was a time where he was really good and now he is bad because game changed so much and his style is impacted by it. Same could happen to Stephano. Huk's not bad, he just has no results. He's still a good player, and easily one of the best NA players. No results? Were you born yesterday? Yeah winning an MLG chock full of Code S Koreans and going through them like a hot knife thru butter is definitely no results. We're talking about beating MC, MKP and July (among others) in their prime for SC2. You must be trolling. They're talking about LotV HuK, yo. Besides MKP hadn't hit his peak at that point, MC was horrid at PvP. Honestly from what I saw the biggest challenge for HuK that MLG was STC MC was horrid at PvP? Oh boi, you need a history lesson. Sorry I started this whole discussion. Someone ignorantly said Huk had no results and I reminded them of MLG Orlando, where Huk went thru a slew of Code S Koreans, including MC, the PvP master, in his prime. Apparently they meant to say only in LOTV, which is also a pretty ignorant statement because LOTV just began and we've only had a handful of tournaments. Tons of good players have "no results" in LOTV at this point, and that doesn't mean they are bad.
The only PvP MC played I remember from back then was getting slaughtered by HuK in that tournament PartinG in MLG and Seed in GSL
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I'm alright with calling MC the BoXeR of SC2
Twas definitely the weakest race before he came along. People have mentioned time and time again how his skill is not what it used to be and that he should just retire, only to prove them wrong. His micro and aggression is what defined him.
Anyways for the PvP discussion I think it's no secret that MC never really truly learned and excelled in that matchup. He had much better micro than all the rest and every game was 4gate, which suited him just fine. I do remember the hype that tastosis did for him, but I think they went a little out of their way to do this.
I'd say the matchup held him back, when you consider what a beast he is in the other matchups.
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EPT
