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On January 09 2016 06:04 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 05:49 Tenks wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? Still more accomplished than any foreigner then Naturally.
I remember when people made fun of Moon, one of the jokes of the GSL. Then he dream crushed Dreamhack and showed the foreigner scene that ladder hero does not equal korean godhood.
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On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time?
If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"?
Those statistics include all of his WOL GSL runs - and he had many deep ones.
He could not have had a lot more korean games than he had, nor any higher level competition because he was regularly competing, placing high and winning the hardest tournaments in the world. You can't get any better statistics - people just always look for excuses.
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On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that.
Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40.
My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
You don't become the most successful (in terms of $$ earned) sc2 pro with pvp as your best matchup if you're bad at pvp
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On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40. My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable.
so you are arguing that MC isn't one of the most skilled sc2 players of all time?
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On January 09 2016 07:32 Cyro wrote:
You don't become the most successful (in terms of $$ earned) sc2 pro with pvp as your best matchup if you're bad at pvp
Were you only ever talking about his skill level in PvP? If so, then I'm not qualified to argue. But your statement about absolute skill sounded a lot broader than that.
On January 09 2016 07:41 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40. My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. so you are arguing that MC isn't one of the most skilled sc2 players of all time?
Define "one of." herO, Zest, sOs, PartinG, Rain, Classic, Dear, and Stats are all much more skilled Protoss players. MC has a limited skillset which works wonders for him when the game is new (WoL, start of HotS, start of LotV) or during weekend tournaments with no room for preparation.
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iirc MC used to practice with HuK around the time of that MLG, and stated that he didnt feel confident in PvP at that time, in an interview.
Why are players prefered matchups not allowed to, in your mind, fluctuate over time and patches? :oooO
Taking TLPD for a lifetime of a volatile game with over 40 patces (arguably fewer game-changing ones  ) does not a good argument make :D
On Topic; I am sad it is not Idra 
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Checking this thread multiple times a day every day, feels like forever since the original tweet lol
Still no revelation D=
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On January 09 2016 07:42 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:32 Cyro wrote:
You don't become the most successful (in terms of $$ earned) sc2 pro with pvp as your best matchup if you're bad at pvp Were you only ever talking about his skill level in PvP? If so, then I'm not qualified to argue. But your statement about absolute skill sounded a lot broader than that. Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:41 jmbthirteen wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40. My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. so you are arguing that MC isn't one of the most skilled sc2 players of all time? Define "one of." herO, Zest, sOs, PartinG, Rain, Classic, Dear, and Stats are all much more skilled Protoss players. MC has a limited skillset which works wonders for him when the game is new (WoL, start of HotS, start of LotV) or during weekend tournaments with no room for preparation.
rofl wtf is this? a philosophy lesson? either he is or he isnt, and i think 99% of all pro players would side with MC being one of the best players throughout SC2
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On January 09 2016 11:00 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:42 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 07:32 Cyro wrote:
You don't become the most successful (in terms of $$ earned) sc2 pro with pvp as your best matchup if you're bad at pvp Were you only ever talking about his skill level in PvP? If so, then I'm not qualified to argue. But your statement about absolute skill sounded a lot broader than that. On January 09 2016 07:41 jmbthirteen wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40. My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. so you are arguing that MC isn't one of the most skilled sc2 players of all time? Define "one of." herO, Zest, sOs, PartinG, Rain, Classic, Dear, and Stats are all much more skilled Protoss players. MC has a limited skillset which works wonders for him when the game is new (WoL, start of HotS, start of LotV) or during weekend tournaments with no room for preparation. rofl wtf is this? a philosophy lesson? either he is or he isnt, and i think 99% of all pro players would side with MC being one of the best players throughout SC2
While I completely agree that MC is one of the best players throughout SC2 his point isn't a philosophical definition of "one of". TerrorPrime, one of the worst players to ever play in proleague is one of the best Zerg's of all time, given the vast majority of players in the world are much much worse. The point they were trying to make (I think) is that if you're definition of "one of the best" is top 10, you could argue MC isn't one of the best.
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On January 09 2016 07:50 Goolpsy wrote:iirc MC used to practice with HuK around the time of that MLG, and stated that he didnt feel confident in PvP at that time, in an interview. Why are players prefered matchups not allowed to, in your mind, fluctuate over time and patches? :oooO Taking TLPD for a lifetime of a volatile game with over 40 patces (arguably fewer game-changing ones ) does not a good argument make :D On Topic; I am sad it is not Idra
We know for sure it's no Idra? I really don't know who it could be that's even worth freaking out over then. Idra, Naniwa, and Stephano are the only truly great ones. BUT. STILL A BIT CURIOUS. GL HF TO WHOEVER IT IS~~
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France12907 Posts
Well he talks about PartinG but isn't PartinG a lesser MC? Good at allins and stuff, at winning cash against foreigners but he did it less successfully than MC :o.
MC is def top 10 protoss of all time haha.
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On January 09 2016 07:42 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:32 Cyro wrote:
You don't become the most successful (in terms of $$ earned) sc2 pro with pvp as your best matchup if you're bad at pvp Were you only ever talking about his skill level in PvP? If so, then I'm not qualified to argue. But your statement about absolute skill sounded a lot broader than that. Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:41 jmbthirteen wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. Eh, I shouldn't have said top 50. I was grossly overestimating how many GSL champions and runner-ups there have been over the last 5 years. It's actually 33. And if InCa maybe cracks the top 60, there's zero percent chance of him being anywhere near the top 40. My point being that results are results and skill is skill. The relationship between the two is correlative, not causative. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. so you are arguing that MC isn't one of the most skilled sc2 players of all time? Define "one of." herO, Zest, sOs, PartinG, Rain, Classic, Dear, and Stats are all much more skilled Protoss players. MC has a limited skillset which works wonders for him when the game is new (WoL, start of HotS, start of LotV) or during weekend tournaments with no room for preparation.
Today yes, but MC won 2 GSL and was without a doubt the best protoss in WoL.
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On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable.
What? Who are you exactly to dispute MC's skill level? An armchair SC2 pro scene expert? MC is a SC2 legend. When he was wrecking nerds and winnings GSLs, there was not a single other Protoss anywhere in the world, who could even compare. The race was in a terrible state back then. MC was the player who showed the rest how to properly play the race.
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On January 09 2016 11:20 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. What? Who are you exactly to dispute MC's skill level? An armchair SC2 pro scene expert? MC is a SC2 legend. When he was wrecking nerds and winnings GSLs, there was not a single other Protoss anywhere in the world, who could even compare. The race was in a terrible state back then. MC was the player who showed the rest how to properly play the race.
if you're talking about 2010/2011, protoss wasn't in a bad state - it was in a meh state.
Zerg was in a dreadful state at that stage.
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On January 09 2016 11:25 coolprogrammingstuff wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 11:20 CheddarToss wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. What? Who are you exactly to dispute MC's skill level? An armchair SC2 pro scene expert? MC is a SC2 legend. When he was wrecking nerds and winnings GSLs, there was not a single other Protoss anywhere in the world, who could even compare. The race was in a terrible state back then. MC was the player who showed the rest how to properly play the race. if you're talking about 2010/2011, protoss wasn't in a bad state - it was in a meh state. Zerg was in a dreadful state at that stage.
And yet there were multiple Zergs who looked like they could win a GSL. On the Protoss side there was only MC.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
On January 09 2016 11:25 coolprogrammingstuff wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 11:20 CheddarToss wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. What? Who are you exactly to dispute MC's skill level? An armchair SC2 pro scene expert? MC is a SC2 legend. When he was wrecking nerds and winnings GSLs, there was not a single other Protoss anywhere in the world, who could even compare. The race was in a terrible state back then. MC was the player who showed the rest how to properly play the race. if you're talking about 2010/2011, protoss wasn't in a bad state - it was in a meh state. Zerg was in a dreadful state at that stage.
Mid-late 2011 protoss was arguably the highest state of imbalance in sc2 history. Zerg was doing better but it was a time of terran dominance (gomTvT)
+ Show Spoiler +
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Hoping for Thorzain or Dimaga!~
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On January 09 2016 11:31 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2016 11:25 coolprogrammingstuff wrote:On January 09 2016 11:20 CheddarToss wrote:On January 09 2016 07:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 06:38 Nebuchad wrote:On January 09 2016 05:44 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 09 2016 04:16 Cyro wrote:MC was horrid at PvP MC used to be known as one of if not the absolute best pvp player in the world and PvP has still statistically been his best matchup. I don't know how you can say such a thing. He's also the highest earning player of all time in sc2 (from tournament winnings) so his absolute skill level is not in question. Since when does stomping foreigners translate into "absolute skill"? InCa once made it to a GSL finals, I guess that makes him one of the top 50 skilled players of all time? If he isn't top 50, then he's not much lower than that. MC's absolute skill level is absolutely disputable. What? Who are you exactly to dispute MC's skill level? An armchair SC2 pro scene expert? MC is a SC2 legend. When he was wrecking nerds and winnings GSLs, there was not a single other Protoss anywhere in the world, who could even compare. The race was in a terrible state back then. MC was the player who showed the rest how to properly play the race. if you're talking about 2010/2011, protoss wasn't in a bad state - it was in a meh state. Zerg was in a dreadful state at that stage. Mid-late 2011 protoss was arguably the highest state of imbalance in sc2 history. Zerg was doing better but it was a time of terran dominance (gomTvT) + Show Spoiler +
Yep, but it wasn't much better in the Open Season 3, with only 12 out of 64 players playing Protoss. Or GSL March 2011, with almost as many Terrans as Zerg and Protoss combined.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4gsVWuR.png)
