| Forum Index > SC2 General |
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51540 Posts
On December 23 2015 22:44 Thouhastmail wrote: If you do not mind my expanding, maybe I can tell you the story. However, do not judge too soon, because 'certain points are not certain' yet. I don't want any room for interpretation because of uncertain points, I'd like to wait until everything is clear. | ||
|
EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
Does it look like there's any way to save Sbenu/Sonic/SOSPA? What would be the best outcome for the BW scene that could emerge? How about the worst? What's Sonic's current relation to SOSPA? Can it operate without his management/funding? Thanks in advance. | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6322 Posts
On December 23 2015 22:44 Thouhastmail wrote: If you do not mind my expanding, maybe I can tell you the story. However, do not judge too soon, because 'certain points are not certain' yet. More information would always be welcome. My conclusions are only based on the information we have available now after all. | ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51540 Posts
On December 23 2015 23:12 EngrishTeacher wrote: I don't have time to read through the entire thread, so can someone just give me a real quick breakdown on a few points? Does it look like there's any way to save Sbenu/Sonic/SOSPA? What would be the best outcome for the BW scene that could emerge? How about the worst? What's Sonic's current relation to SOSPA? Can it operate without his management/funding? Thanks in advance. SOSPA isn't an actual thing its just what he calls the events run by him, if he pays off his debts then SBENU will continue under him, hes been too busy running SBENU to focus on BW so techincally speaking if you want him to return to the scene you'd either want him to have huge success or cut himself from SBENU and return to being BJ Sonic that we know and love. The worst that can happen is that there wont be any more SSLs for a while, and I suspect thats mostly because he'd never want to downsize on it, he'd want another season to be on OGN and nothing less. BW scene will continue without him, just that it'll be unlikely that it will improve as much as it did this year. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 23 2015 23:00 BLinD-RawR wrote: I don't want any room for interpretation because of uncertain points, I'd like to wait until everything is clear. Okay then, I`ll tell you what is certain. 1. Sonic did not pay his payments to manufactures. 2. Sonic insists that he didn`t pay it, because vendor is profiteering; while manufactures(and vendor) says he is just excusing himself. 3. Sonic sued manufactures, insisting that they sold SBENU shoes to warehouse stores arbitrarily. However, manufactures insists that it was Sonic himself who sold SBENU shoes to warehouse stores located next to branches for slush funds, without paying his bills to manufactures. In this sense, they seized shoes in order to prohibit Sonic from selling shoes arbitrarily.(I dunno whether this is true, but shoes are seized anyway.) This pissed franchise owners off - hence, they all filed lawsuits against Sonic. 4.SBENU is in state of full-scale capital erosion; which means the company has zero capital. (actually, it`s minus.) 5. And this means, he has to pay other 170 manufactures` payment and dept all by himself. 6. And this also means, he`s screwed. It took a time because I have to distinguish what is certain. | ||
|
Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic. For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 24 2015 00:21 Clonester wrote: At least his girlfriend got a RR... I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic. For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts. It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though. | ||
|
Nabe
51 Posts
On December 24 2015 00:24 Thouhastmail wrote: It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though. Care to go into a little bit of detail about this please? What corporation? Is leasing something completely different in Korea? When the lease is done, you return the car. I could believe the Fiat, I could believe what I assume to be a Porsche (First picture where it's showing the center console.), but a Rolls Royce Wraith? They start at 300,000+ USD. Even if he was leasing to own or whatever, I can't imagine him paying it off in the time since Sbenu has been successful enough for him to even consider a car like that. Even if some random corporation decided to lease such a car to him and then went bankrupt or something, they can still cancel the lease to get the car back or sell it to another company to recover some of the losses. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 24 2015 02:08 Nabe wrote: Care to go into a little bit of detail about this please? What corporation? Is leasing something completely different in Korea? When the lease is done, you return the car. I could believe the Fiat, I could believe what I assume to be a Porsche (First picture where it's showing the center console.), but a Rolls Royce Wraith? They start at 300,000+ USD. Even if he was leasing to own or whatever, I can't imagine him paying it off in the time since Sbenu has been successful enough for him to even consider a car like that. Even if some random corporation decided to lease such a car to him and then went bankrupt or something, they can still cancel the lease to get the car back or sell it to another company to recover some of the losses. I mean, his cars are in SBENU`s name in order to pay his lease payments with the company funds. When the lease is done(commonly 3 yrs), the leaser can own it by paying the rest of the price.(or simply returns it.) The car becomes company`s property but effectively it becomes leaser`s car since he owns the company. This kind of expedient is used by the heads of company occasionally. Strictly speaking, it`s a kind of misappropriation. However, it can cause serious chain problems if the company`s fiscal situation goes wrong. The solution is very simple: If Sonic pays $30m to manufactures without company funds (cause there`s nothing left), it`s done. If he doesn`t, he`ll be in big trouble for fraud and embezzlement. | ||
|
mca64Launcher_
Poland629 Posts
| ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6322 Posts
On December 24 2015 02:35 Thouhastmail wrote: I mean, his cars are in SBENU`s name in order to pay his lease payments with the company funds. When the lease is done(commonly 3 yrs), the leaser can own it by paying the rest of the price.(or simply returns it.) The car becomes company`s property but effectively it becomes leaser`s car since he owns the company. This kind of expedient is used by the heads of company occasionally. Strictly speaking, it`s a kind of misappropriation. However, it can cause serious chain problems if the company`s fiscal situation goes wrong. The solution is very simple: If Sonic pays $30m to manufactures without company funds (cause there`s nothing left), it`s done. If he doesn`t, he`ll be in big trouble for fraud and embezzlement. Where is the fraud and embezzlement in this though? I can see mismanagement and because of that Sonic can become liable for the debt but I don't see a crime. | ||
|
Nabe
51 Posts
On December 24 2015 02:35 Thouhastmail wrote: I mean, his cars are in SBENU`s name in order to pay his lease payments with the company funds. When the lease is done(commonly 3 yrs), the leaser can own it by paying the rest of the price.(or simply returns it.) The car becomes company`s property but effectively it becomes leaser`s car since he owns the company. This kind of expedient is used by the heads of company occasionally. Strictly speaking, it`s a kind of misappropriation. However, it can cause serious chain problems if the company`s fiscal situation goes wrong. The solution is very simple: If Sonic pays $30m to manufactures without company funds (cause there`s nothing left), it`s done. If he doesn`t, he`ll be in big trouble for fraud and embezzlement. Thanks, that clears things up. Going back and looking at his facebook photos it seems he didn't own or drive anything particularly expensive until around 2014. He only opened his first actual store around that time. So I always assumed this was around the time Sbenu actually took off. But since then the sponsorships, teams, massive headquarters, cars, celebrities, the company costs he actually did pay, and all the rest. I can't imagine this turning out well at all. | ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
Where is the fraud and embezzlement in this though? I can see mismanagement and because of that Sonic can become liable for the debt but I don't see a crime. Uh, I believe that`s what people call 'fraud'; not keeping one`s words. He ordered shoes and promised that he`ll pay for them; but he did not pay nor give it back to manufactures. (even though he returns those shoes to manufactures, still it`s violating contracts. Manufactures are supposed to get money, not shoes that they made) Then, he sold`em to the warehouse stores; this is clearly a breach of contract, because franchise branches have a right for exclusive distribution in return for their investments. And those 'shoes' are assets of the company, which means Sonic cannot dispose them personally. Everything should be gone through the legal process; if he got money from those shoes, it must be written in certain documents. If not, it`s misappropriating. Edit: Somehow I feel like being a Sonic`s prosecutor... | ||
|
_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
But now its real life and he cant get away just like that. | ||
|
RoninKenshin
Canada97 Posts
The reason why he doesn't have money to pay back the manufacturers is because he spent it all. He suddenly had a huge influx of cash, and decided that SBENU was bigger than it was, and created an insane amount of overhead. He leased very expensive and large stores when he could have just distributed his shoes through any other store. He hired a LOT of A-list (in Korea) celebrities to advertise his shoes, when he should have just either used only one or instagram models or something. I understand hiring one A-list to get SBENU's name out, but anything following that up is redundant, and also just makes the branding confusing. Maybe he just wanted to party with the girls or something. Finally, for the reason why we love him, he haphazardly sponsored everything Starcraft. Let's be honest here. Every dollar he put into Starcraft probably saw zero return, or a few cents at the most. IU commercials gave him infinitely more relevant exposure than all the Starcraft leagues and tournaments in the world. He sponsored out of love for the game, but he should have really slowed down and done it at a stable pace, not one that assumes initial growth will be constant. All of these expenses are stupid, but legal and on board. There's no criminal element to them. Obviously he had his splurges: parties and expensive things and an expensive girlfriend. Every company does this though. The problem was the massive monthly overhead that he had (and likely the margins were pretty low looking at the revenue vs profit). | ||
|
Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
| ||
|
fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
| ||
|
Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On December 24 2015 08:26 RoninKenshin wrote: Fraud is wrongful or criminal deception, defined by malicious intent from the beginning in most countries. I don't know Korean law, but there should be no reason for Sonic to stand in front of criminal court for his actions.. Unfortunately, it is perfectly illegal if all those things are true, according to Korean penal system. The law states, "Deception includes any commission or omission of the person violating his/her duty of good faith contracts in business transaction" It also states, "A person who, having the custody of another's property, embezzles or refuses to return it, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years or by a fine not exceeding fifteen million won" Korean law applies fraud widely; it includes advertent negligence. | ||
|
RoninKenshin
Canada97 Posts
On December 24 2015 14:39 Thouhastmail wrote: Unfortunately, it is perfectly illegal if all those things are true, according to Korean penal system. The law states, "Deception includes any commission or omission of the person violating his/her duty of good faith contracts in business transaction" It also states, "A person who, having the custody of another's property, embezzles or refuses to return it, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years or by a fine not exceeding fifteen million won" Korean law applies fraud widely; it includes advertent negligence. Sonic (or his corporation) is guilty of the first part, but does involve criminal court? In the second part, I think there's a strong case that he neither embezzled or refused to return any property if he did his books correctly. | ||
|
ChillingFrog89
25 Posts
| ||
| ||
StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 Super Smash Bros Heroes of the Storm Other Games summit1g8229 JimRising  625PiGStarcraft296 ArmadaUGS142 Sick132 Maynarde127 RuFF_SC288 Livibee70 ViBE56 |
|
The PondCast
OSC
Stellar Fest
OSC
Stellar Fest
CranKy Ducklings
Online Event
FEL
AI Arena Tournament
BSL: Ladder Tournament
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
