On January 11 2016 09:50 RCCar wrote: Update on sonic: http://gall.dcinside.com/starcraft_new/4070963 Fraud confirmed. Sonic currently on the lam Sbenu currently the hot keyword of korean portal sites
On January 11 2016 09:50 RCCar wrote: Update on sonic: http://gall.dcinside.com/starcraft_new/4070963 Fraud confirmed. Sonic currently on the lam Sbenu currently the hot keyword of korean portal sites
:o
Can someone translate, or at least a bit more elaborate summary?
i just started doing a rough summary, just asking to make sure its not wasted effort and someone whos better at translating is already doing one?
horangnabi please
very rough summaries/translations of the dcinside link. its a summary some guy did of the tv segment that came out about sbenu
1. starts with one factory executive in the nude (t/n: on article I read about this guy, he basically went to sbenu hq took off his clothes and was yelling "give me my money!") money he is owed 2,800,000,000 Won ($2,318,456 USD)
2. this factory and many others related businesses in busan are all in danger of bankruptcy.
3. the guy who was heard in phone recordings (found here: http://blog.naver.com/sbenu2016) comes out (he's a sbenu investor/branch owner) : - after the overstock/clearance stores showed up he was selling like 0~3 shoes a day. - the branch stores sell shoes at 790,000 Won but clearance stores sell same shoe for 390,000 Won. customer come get mad come yell at him and demand refund - some dude who bought sbenu shoes at regular price gets mad saying he paid so much money for shitty shoes
4. sonic comes out: - comes out with the mosaic voice change identity hiding state you see most criminals show up on tv - says same thing he said in wikitree interview "clerance store merchandise is not from us, that's all 하이키/highkey(?) (management agency) doing" - mbc checks in with clearance store and they tell them "we got these shoes from sbenu" - next day they contact sonic again and he says "i didnt know so i said i dont know!"
5. reason why branch stores cant close business - this detail wasnt included in the 부산공장 (t/n: this guy is highkey ceo's son from what i know) online leaks (t/n: there were a ton regarding phone calls, pictures, legal documents suing sonic, log of all the different cars leased with sbenu money etc..) - the stock left in branch stores have been seized - branch owners cant even sell the stuff they have so they cant close down the business - money invested to open branch minimum 30,000,000 Won to sometimes 200,000,000 Won. also when branch sells one 990,000 Won shoe, sbenu gets 540,000 Won - but they are selling the same shoe at clearance for 490,000 Won
6. sbenu management director comes out: - says same stuff sonic been saying blaming highkey saying they seized the funds - but does say that the cause of all this is crappy management from parties involved with sbenu - even this sbenu director is saying all the money they wasted on marketting kinda backfired on them - summarizer points out that this director says "this company" instead of "our company" so he seems like a third party (t/n: the 부산공장 guy who was posting details online said there were a bunch of new people sonic brought in to try and clean up the mess and cover tracks and stuff) - says sonic sold all his supercars
in between you see one of his fancy super cars (부산공장 added this picture in this post http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=starcraft_new&no=4071302&page=1&exception_mode=recommend showing 14 different cars leased using sbenu money but a lot of them were under a third party company name) and articles saying how well his business is doing, and how much profit he plans to make in 2015
7. lies that are snowballing out of control - since october sonics been saying he brought in some big company rep who would invest in sbenu so the money is coming - turns out this was a lie - mbc contacted this big company, says they dont have that guy employed and there was no discussion regarding investment - the management director says they were tricked by this big company rep for 3 months - dude looked real mad, seems like a victim
8. conclusion and next step(?) (t/n: i think this last part is a lot of personal opinion from the guy who wrote this summary) - even in this situation, factory and branch owners dont want the brand to fail - of course, if the brand fails and dies out then all these ppl lose their jobs - but its progressed too far, past the point of return - personally i think they should reveal all the evidence lower the cost of merchandise, everyone buy a pair or two out of pity or government or big business intervenes and we send the shoe abroad - of course the person responsible for this mess should be punished accordingly and spend the rest of his life repaying his debts. (t/n: some last end bits kinda poking fun at the situation of sonic collecting pity balloons of afreeca has his loan shark count the money)
im sure theres ppl who are better at korean that can point out any mistakes i made in translation. of course this is a summary some other guy wrote but i read a lot of the indvidual stuff thats been surfacing the past couple weeks and this seems to line up a lot with what I know
edit: i dunno why but when ever scandulous shit happens its just so entertaining :S
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
from my understanding its like this
1. sonic spends a fortune on advertisement and marketing, ppl see IU AOA and ppl in drama wearing sbenu shoes and they start to sponsor many different esports stuff (sc2 lol bw etc) it seems really successful and gains rep
2. sbenu goes to factory and uses their rep as some kind of giant super growing company and asks to began shoe production and signs contracts saying funds will be delivered in due time. the highkey ceo's son made public online a bunch of different written contracts sonic stamped saying this will be promised that will be promised etc. but sbenu continues to lag it and blames highkey the management agency saying they have the money. factory has no choice but to sell shoes they have stocked up for cheap. sbenu comes in and buys this posing as a third party for very cheap.
3. investors are like "wow we totally want a piece of this action" so they invest heavily, 100+ stores nation wide, minimum ~30k$ investment up to like ~200k$
4. sbenu supplies (probably also runs) clearance overstock store with shoes they scammed from factory as third party and sells the same shoes they sell at branch stores for 40~60% discounted prices. sbenu for a while stated they did not give these stores they shoes but this was found out to be a lie in the phone recordings 부산공장 posted online. of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
5. now according to very recent stuff that 부산공장 posted on dc, apparently the money sbenu makes from these they launder through some kind of unnamed entertainment agency.
also I read that everything sbenu hasnt been able to get trademark rights since june 2014, because
A)
their logo is like 90% copied from something else
B) theres a shoe brand called SOBENU and they were basically like "yo your brand name is too similar to ours" and did some legal stuff to which sbenu gave no response
"The chairman of SBENU, a fashion company, is being investigated by the police for fraud.
Today, 'The society for SBENU Victims' held press conferences to announce that they would be taking the case to the court, to try to demand compensation for the delayed payment of the bill *.
... Mr. Hwang, CEO of SBENU, stated that he`ll counter-charge SBENU`s agency for defalcating bills that were supposed to go factories, insisting that he got circumstantial evidences. "
*It is known that Sonic did not pay 30.3 billion Won to the manufacturing facilities. (approximately $25.59m)
"... The problem is, in spite of all these external developments, The company’s financial position is shaky; Though Mr. Hwang announced that SBENU got 50 bill. Won ($42.22m) in sales last year, actually it earned 10.4 bill. Won($8.78m) in sales and posted an operating loss of 210 mill. Won ($170K), according to mediumsized enterprise information system."
To fully understand: The factories, that produce SBENU products, say, that SBENU has to pay them an open bill of 30.3 Billion WON. Mr Hwang, CEO of SBENU, says, they wanted to pay, but the agency (bank?) fucked up and he, Mr Hwang, has evidence, that it is not his fault, but the fault of the agency who had to send the payment.
"It is known that Sonic did not pay 30.3 billion Won". Who knows that? The public by news? And from where do they got the knowledge?
The last sentence has clearly alot of money errors: Mr. Wong says SBENU made 50 bil. Won in sales ($42.22). You mean Million $??. And the gouvernment says the company made 210k Won loss (you mean 210Million Won??) because after you say 210k Won are (170k $). And the latest number is 104 Bil. Won and you state that are 8.78M $ in sales. But when 30.3 Billion Won are 25.59 Million $, 50 Billionen Won can be 42.22 Million $, but then 104 bil. Won cant be 8,78 mil. $. That should be then over 84 mil. $.
I am confused and my text just gave me even more of that.
He expanded really really fast in the last 2 years, just like StarUps usually do it. But in this state, Start-Ups allways make alot of losing money and have to find new investors to carry on till you reach the black numbers sometimes. Or even sell the company while it still loses money. But Sonik seemed to have larger problems to find new investors and thus has payment problems.
It's going to be important to see how this develops. It might turn out that it's mostly harmless overall and just sounds bad, it might turn out to seriously hurt the company and all its eSports teams...
On December 20 2015 00:44 Thouhastmail wrote: well, I have never liked Sonic since he had defended Savior.
However, I understand your bitterness about the news.
Well, I don't care about Sonic himself. But if his company goes broke, his eSports teams will be in trouble. And those players I do care about. I mean, especially with the new WCS changes, what are the odds SBENU would find a new big sponsor for their team if the company actually collapsed? Probably not too great considering Startale was struggling forever to find a sponsor to begin with.
SBENU is generally known as the shit quality and overpriced brand in Korea (although they're being sold at clearance prices now). He just spent a shit ton on marketing a brand that he can't even get trademarked because there's already another shoe brand called SOBENU.
On December 19 2015 23:51 WrathSCII wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOT THE BROOD WAR SAVIOR!!!
From SAVIOR to sAviOr...
SavioUr seems more legit.
On December 20 2015 04:20 mikumegurine wrote: so there really is a "sobenu" brand of shoes hmm
"sbenu" isnt and cant even be trademarked?...
sbenu has AOA, Seolhyun, even IU marketing the shoes wow
even Hollywood actress like Chloe Moretz
Also they recently partnered with Manchester United. He sponsored SC2 SSL and bought Startale, had his brand new BBARAS BW amateur team which showed their great performance in VANT Starleague against real ex pros recently. Everything was promising and company was skyrocketed. He called literally "Jesus" by TL users after he said he revives BW on OGN. But I already started to feel something wasn't right with it after not long ago Sonic said there won't be in near future new SBENU Starleague because he couldn't find sponsors. Sonic was fucking everywhere but now... T_T
that sort of money for a startup just doesn't appear from nowhere now that they have large bills to pay. now that it's brought to light, there is no end to this fiasco until sbenu revives itself like a phoenix or is doused as a gigantic pit of fire
On December 20 2015 18:18 digmouse wrote: Is this the worst week/month for Starcraft ever? Flash retiring, new WCS, MMA retiring, Rain retiring and now this?
November was worse, it witnessed the birth of the abomination
On December 20 2015 18:18 digmouse wrote: Is this the worst week/month for Starcraft ever? Flash retiring, new WCS, MMA retiring, Rain retiring and now this?
November was worse, it witnessed the birth of the abomination
i literally wonder, why do you stick around as a known sc2 hater (moved onto sc:bw supposedly) and continue to jab at the game in literally every thread you can imagine. do you want to see the jengas crumble? looking for justification as a joy and hobby? nobody likes a downer at a party. what is the paradox here? do you actually enjoy the game and want it to succeed and to be proven wrong? otherwise what is your problem that you have to voice the contrary to anything and everything related to this game?
"sc2 sucks? sc:bw is waaaay better?" you've already snuck this sentiment in a few dozen times already, at the very least you could get more creative here. you certainly have a lot of practice.
i'm not going to tell you to grow up, but it should be an obvious thing to think about at some point.
On December 20 2015 18:18 digmouse wrote: Is this the worst week/month for Starcraft ever? Flash retiring, new WCS, MMA retiring, Rain retiring and now this?
November was worse, it witnessed the birth of the abomination
i literally wonder, why do you stick around as a known sc2 hater (moved onto sc:bw supposedly) and continue to jab at the game in literally every thread you can imagine. do you want to see the jengas crumble? looking for justification as a joy and hobby? nobody likes a downer at a party. what is the paradox here? do you actually enjoy the game and want it to succeed and to be proven wrong? otherwise what is your problem that you have to voice the contrary to anything and everything related to this game?
"sc2 sucks? sc:bw is waaaay better?" you've already snuck this sentiment in a few dozen times already, at the very least you could get more creative here. you certainly have a lot of practice.
i'm not going to tell you to grow up, but it should be an obvious thing to think about at some point.
It is a really common occurence in game forums. Mostly done by people that still have an interest, but want to avoid getting back into the game. It is a form of self reassurence to have done the right thing, while at the same time not being able to let go completely.
Not too surprised by this tbh. SBENU's sudden explosion of sponsorships in eSports gave me that "too good to be true" feeling about the entire business. Not to say I felt SBENU was shady, but that there was no way Sonic's ambitions were sutainable
Hwang (boardmember of Sbenu?) owes 3 billion won (~$2.5 mil) to a shoe manufacturer. He gives them assurances to pay back but reneges. The shoes Hwang bought are collateralized for loans from 3rd parties and he sells the shoes to warehouse stores for fraction of the price. These stores set up shop next to the franchise locations and Hwang accuses the vendor of selling illegally to the warehouses. The manufactuer, franchise owners, and warehour store owners all filed lawsuits against Sbenu/Hwang. The pictures of Hermes/Rolls-Royce are gifts that Hwang gave to his girlfriend.
Can't tell if fact but with the pictures of Hwang's handwritten note about borrowing the money it seems to carry some weight.
On December 23 2015 19:33 Wala.Revolution wrote: Is Sonic's name Hwang Hyo-jin?
Hwang (boardmember of Sbenu?) owes 3 billion won (~$2.5 mil) to a shoe manufacturer. He gives them assurances to pay back but reneges. The shoes Hwang bought are collateralized for loans from 3rd parties and he sells the shoes to warehouse stores for fraction of the price. These stores set up shop next to the franchise locations and Hwang accuses the vendor of selling illegally to the warehouses. The manufactuer, franchise owners, and warehour store owners all filed lawsuits against Sbenu/Hwang. The pictures of Hermes/Rolls-Royce are gifts that Hwang gave to his girlfriend.
Can't tell if fact but with the pictures of Hwang's handwritten note about borrowing the money it seems to carry some weight.
The point is, there are tons of factories that have this sort of contract dispute.
Picture 1: sonic's handwritten agreement that he'll pay back 3 billion won by Sep 15th, 2015 to the shoe manufacturer (Haiki). If not, 100% of shares of Sbenu will be given to Haiki.
Picture 2: I think it's a paper that says picture 1 was notarized by a public notary.
Picture 3: Notice of seizure from a district court.
Picture 4: Repayment plan from Sonic? Dunno.
Picture 5: picture of protest placards against Sbenu accusing them of screwing franchisees by opening cheap(er) warehouses stores close to franchise locations.
Pictures 6-9: Hermes bracelet, Rolls Royce given to Sonic's girlfriend (I assume she is).
Picture 10: Handwritten agreement that if debts aren't repaid until Dec 31st, 2015, Sbenu's brand rights and selling rights will be given to Busan Factory.
So wait, this is not a fraud in the classical sense, ie. Sonic doing something illegal to advance his company?
He promised to pay a company that manufactures his shoes until a certain date and to assure them that he'll pay, he signed an agreement that said he'll sign over his shoe brand if he doesn't pay. Then he bought one too many Rolls Royces and Lamborghinis, and couldn't afford to pay them back? Seems like a scummy thing to do, but not really illegal. And now it's up to judge to determine the legitimacy of the agreement Sonic signed. Potentially, he could be in quite a bit of trouble, financially.
But then again, Sonic is also accusing other parties of doing something illegal? That definitely complicates the situation and might explain why Sonic didn't pay (especially since $2.5 million seems like less money than SBENU spends on advertising and I assume could easily afford for something so crucial like their product). Can anyone clarify this bit:
"The shoes Hwang bought are collateralized for loans from 3rd parties and he sells the shoes to warehouse stores for fraction of the price. These stores set up shop next to the franchise locations and Hwang accuses the vendor of selling illegally to the warehouses."
The way I read it is that the shoes were used as colleteral. Since Sonic didn't pay the ones who provided the loans sold the shoes for cheap to warehouse stores. These stores set up next to Sbenu stores and then sell the shoes.
edit: but yeah I don't see anything illegal here either just a lot of financial trouble.
On December 23 2015 22:17 RvB wrote: The way I read it is that the shoes were used as colleteral. Since Sonic didn't pay the ones who provided the loans sold the shoes for cheap to warehouse stores. These stores set up next to Sbenu stores and then sell the shoes.
Ah yeah, that makes sense. I didn't imagine Sonic being irresponsible to the point of not paying the manufacturer of his product, but I guess buying a Rolls Royce for your girlfriend is more important.
On December 23 2015 22:17 RvB wrote: The way I read it is that the shoes were used as colleteral. Since Sonic didn't pay the ones who provided the loans sold the shoes for cheap to warehouse stores. These stores set up next to Sbenu stores and then sell the shoes.
edit: but yeah I don't see anything illegal here either just a lot of financial trouble.
If you do not mind my expanding, maybe I can tell you the story. However, do not judge too soon, because 'certain points are not certain' yet.
On December 23 2015 22:17 RvB wrote: The way I read it is that the shoes were used as colleteral. Since Sonic didn't pay the ones who provided the loans sold the shoes for cheap to warehouse stores. These stores set up next to Sbenu stores and then sell the shoes.
edit: but yeah I don't see anything illegal here either just a lot of financial trouble.
If you do not mind my expanding, maybe I can tell you the story. However, do not judge too soon, because 'certain points are not certain' yet.
I don't want any room for interpretation because of uncertain points, I'd like to wait until everything is clear.
On December 23 2015 22:17 RvB wrote: The way I read it is that the shoes were used as colleteral. Since Sonic didn't pay the ones who provided the loans sold the shoes for cheap to warehouse stores. These stores set up next to Sbenu stores and then sell the shoes.
edit: but yeah I don't see anything illegal here either just a lot of financial trouble.
If you do not mind my expanding, maybe I can tell you the story. However, do not judge too soon, because 'certain points are not certain' yet.
More information would always be welcome. My conclusions are only based on the information we have available now after all.
On December 23 2015 23:12 EngrishTeacher wrote: I don't have time to read through the entire thread, so can someone just give me a real quick breakdown on a few points?
Does it look like there's any way to save Sbenu/Sonic/SOSPA?
What would be the best outcome for the BW scene that could emerge? How about the worst?
What's Sonic's current relation to SOSPA? Can it operate without his management/funding?
Thanks in advance.
SOSPA isn't an actual thing its just what he calls the events run by him, if he pays off his debts then SBENU will continue under him, hes been too busy running SBENU to focus on BW so techincally speaking if you want him to return to the scene you'd either want him to have huge success or cut himself from SBENU and return to being BJ Sonic that we know and love. The worst that can happen is that there wont be any more SSLs for a while, and I suspect thats mostly because he'd never want to downsize on it, he'd want another season to be on OGN and nothing less.
BW scene will continue without him, just that it'll be unlikely that it will improve as much as it did this year.
On December 23 2015 22:17 RvB wrote: The way I read it is that the shoes were used as colleteral. Since Sonic didn't pay the ones who provided the loans sold the shoes for cheap to warehouse stores. These stores set up next to Sbenu stores and then sell the shoes.
edit: but yeah I don't see anything illegal here either just a lot of financial trouble.
If you do not mind my expanding, maybe I can tell you the story. However, do not judge too soon, because 'certain points are not certain' yet.
I don't want any room for interpretation because of uncertain points, I'd like to wait until everything is clear.
Okay then, I`ll tell you what is certain.
1. Sonic did not pay his payments to manufactures.
2. Sonic insists that he didn`t pay it, because vendor is profiteering; while manufactures(and vendor) says he is just excusing himself.
3. Sonic sued manufactures, insisting that they sold SBENU shoes to warehouse stores arbitrarily. However, manufactures insists that it was Sonic himself who sold SBENU shoes to warehouse stores located next to branches for slush funds, without paying his bills to manufactures. In this sense, they seized shoes in order to prohibit Sonic from selling shoes arbitrarily.(I dunno whether this is true, but shoes are seized anyway.) This pissed franchise owners off - hence, they all filed lawsuits against Sonic.
4.SBENU is in state of full-scale capital erosion; which means the company has zero capital. (actually, it`s minus.)
5. And this means, he has to pay other 170 manufactures` payment and dept all by himself.
6. And this also means, he`s screwed.
It took a time because I have to distinguish what is certain.
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic.
For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts.
On December 24 2015 00:21 Clonester wrote: At least his girlfriend got a RR...
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic.
For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts.
It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though.
On December 24 2015 00:21 Clonester wrote: At least his girlfriend got a RR...
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic.
For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts.
It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though.
Care to go into a little bit of detail about this please? What corporation? Is leasing something completely different in Korea? When the lease is done, you return the car. I could believe the Fiat, I could believe what I assume to be a Porsche (First picture where it's showing the center console.), but a Rolls Royce Wraith? They start at 300,000+ USD. Even if he was leasing to own or whatever, I can't imagine him paying it off in the time since Sbenu has been successful enough for him to even consider a car like that.
Even if some random corporation decided to lease such a car to him and then went bankrupt or something, they can still cancel the lease to get the car back or sell it to another company to recover some of the losses.
On December 24 2015 00:21 Clonester wrote: At least his girlfriend got a RR...
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic.
For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts.
It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though.
Care to go into a little bit of detail about this please? What corporation? Is leasing something completely different in Korea? When the lease is done, you return the car. I could believe the Fiat, I could believe what I assume to be a Porsche (First picture where it's showing the center console.), but a Rolls Royce Wraith? They start at 300,000+ USD. Even if he was leasing to own or whatever, I can't imagine him paying it off in the time since Sbenu has been successful enough for him to even consider a car like that.
Even if some random corporation decided to lease such a car to him and then went bankrupt or something, they can still cancel the lease to get the car back or sell it to another company to recover some of the losses.
I mean, his cars are in SBENU`s name in order to pay his lease payments with the company funds. When the lease is done(commonly 3 yrs), the leaser can own it by paying the rest of the price.(or simply returns it.) The car becomes company`s property but effectively it becomes leaser`s car since he owns the company.
This kind of expedient is used by the heads of company occasionally. Strictly speaking, it`s a kind of misappropriation.
However, it can cause serious chain problems if the company`s fiscal situation goes wrong.
The solution is very simple: If Sonic pays $30m to manufactures without company funds (cause there`s nothing left), it`s done. If he doesn`t, he`ll be in big trouble for fraud and embezzlement.
On December 24 2015 00:21 Clonester wrote: At least his girlfriend got a RR...
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic.
For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts.
It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though.
Care to go into a little bit of detail about this please? What corporation? Is leasing something completely different in Korea? When the lease is done, you return the car. I could believe the Fiat, I could believe what I assume to be a Porsche (First picture where it's showing the center console.), but a Rolls Royce Wraith? They start at 300,000+ USD. Even if he was leasing to own or whatever, I can't imagine him paying it off in the time since Sbenu has been successful enough for him to even consider a car like that.
Even if some random corporation decided to lease such a car to him and then went bankrupt or something, they can still cancel the lease to get the car back or sell it to another company to recover some of the losses.
I mean, his cars are in SBENU`s name in order to pay his lease payments with the company funds. When the lease is done(commonly 3 yrs), the leaser can own it by paying the rest of the price.(or simply returns it.) The car becomes company`s property but effectively it becomes leaser`s car since he owns the company.
This kind of expedient is used by the heads of company occasionally. Strictly speaking, it`s a kind of misappropriation.
However, it can cause serious chain problems if the company`s fiscal situation goes wrong.
The solution is very simple: If Sonic pays $30m to manufactures without company funds (cause there`s nothing left), it`s done. If he doesn`t, he`ll be in big trouble for fraud and embezzlement.
Where is the fraud and embezzlement in this though? I can see mismanagement and because of that Sonic can become liable for the debt but I don't see a crime.
On December 24 2015 00:21 Clonester wrote: At least his girlfriend got a RR...
I hope that BW can now live on without him, it was never a good thing how much impact he had on BW, as that also meant when he fail/falls, BW will get a blow. His move out after the last SSL is good for me, it made room for others and at the moment, BW looks quite alive even without him. Maybe it was the perfect time that BW "lost" Sonic.
For SC II, i dont hope that the Team SBENU gets fucked. A SPL with 6 teams would be close to the infamous last GSTL season with 5 teams. I hope they get rebranded if SBENU falls and not either go the way of IM/Prime nor that we see again the "we need a sponsor" sponsored shirts.
It is known that the cars that he gave/owns are leased by corporation. some of them are expired (which means he owns it) though.
Care to go into a little bit of detail about this please? What corporation? Is leasing something completely different in Korea? When the lease is done, you return the car. I could believe the Fiat, I could believe what I assume to be a Porsche (First picture where it's showing the center console.), but a Rolls Royce Wraith? They start at 300,000+ USD. Even if he was leasing to own or whatever, I can't imagine him paying it off in the time since Sbenu has been successful enough for him to even consider a car like that.
Even if some random corporation decided to lease such a car to him and then went bankrupt or something, they can still cancel the lease to get the car back or sell it to another company to recover some of the losses.
I mean, his cars are in SBENU`s name in order to pay his lease payments with the company funds. When the lease is done(commonly 3 yrs), the leaser can own it by paying the rest of the price.(or simply returns it.) The car becomes company`s property but effectively it becomes leaser`s car since he owns the company.
This kind of expedient is used by the heads of company occasionally. Strictly speaking, it`s a kind of misappropriation.
However, it can cause serious chain problems if the company`s fiscal situation goes wrong.
The solution is very simple: If Sonic pays $30m to manufactures without company funds (cause there`s nothing left), it`s done. If he doesn`t, he`ll be in big trouble for fraud and embezzlement.
Thanks, that clears things up. Going back and looking at his facebook photos it seems he didn't own or drive anything particularly expensive until around 2014. He only opened his first actual store around that time. So I always assumed this was around the time Sbenu actually took off.
But since then the sponsorships, teams, massive headquarters, cars, celebrities, the company costs he actually did pay, and all the rest. I can't imagine this turning out well at all.
Where is the fraud and embezzlement in this though? I can see mismanagement and because of that Sonic can become liable for the debt but I don't see a crime.
Uh, I believe that`s what people call 'fraud'; not keeping one`s words.
He ordered shoes and promised that he`ll pay for them; but he did not pay nor give it back to manufactures.
(even though he returns those shoes to manufactures, still it`s violating contracts. Manufactures are supposed to get money, not shoes that they made)
Then, he sold`em to the warehouse stores; this is clearly a breach of contract, because franchise branches have a right for exclusive distribution in return for their investments.
And those 'shoes' are assets of the company, which means Sonic cannot dispose them personally. Everything should be gone through the legal process; if he got money from those shoes, it must be written in certain documents. If not, it`s misappropriating.
Edit: Somehow I feel like being a Sonic`s prosecutor...
Strange enough as i see how he manages his bussiness all of a sudden i remember his BW wacky strategies and i see many similarities. Crazy stuff, it was about misinformation, cheating and abuse. But now its real life and he cant get away just like that.
Fraud is wrongful or criminal deception, defined by malicious intent from the beginning in most countries. I don't know Korean law, but there should be no reason for Sonic to stand in front of criminal court for his actions. His company would stand in front of civil court for not upholding his contract, and his company would be responsible for the debt, with the assets of the company being seized for payment, and likely going bankrupt in the process. If he didn't create a corporation, it's possible that he could be responsible for the debt himself, and be forced to declare bankruptcy, with the possible of portions of the debt still following him after that. If he did something like borrow money to manufacture the shoes and then made the shoes but rather spent the money, then that would be fraud and he could possibly see jail time.
The reason why he doesn't have money to pay back the manufacturers is because he spent it all. He suddenly had a huge influx of cash, and decided that SBENU was bigger than it was, and created an insane amount of overhead. He leased very expensive and large stores when he could have just distributed his shoes through any other store. He hired a LOT of A-list (in Korea) celebrities to advertise his shoes, when he should have just either used only one or instagram models or something. I understand hiring one A-list to get SBENU's name out, but anything following that up is redundant, and also just makes the branding confusing. Maybe he just wanted to party with the girls or something.
Finally, for the reason why we love him, he haphazardly sponsored everything Starcraft. Let's be honest here. Every dollar he put into Starcraft probably saw zero return, or a few cents at the most. IU commercials gave him infinitely more relevant exposure than all the Starcraft leagues and tournaments in the world. He sponsored out of love for the game, but he should have really slowed down and done it at a stable pace, not one that assumes initial growth will be constant.
All of these expenses are stupid, but legal and on board. There's no criminal element to them. Obviously he had his splurges: parties and expensive things and an expensive girlfriend. Every company does this though. The problem was the massive monthly overhead that he had (and likely the margins were pretty low looking at the revenue vs profit).
On December 24 2015 08:26 RoninKenshin wrote: Fraud is wrongful or criminal deception, defined by malicious intent from the beginning in most countries. I don't know Korean law, but there should be no reason for Sonic to stand in front of criminal court for his actions..
Unfortunately, it is perfectly illegal if all those things are true, according to Korean penal system.
The law states, "Deception includes any commission or omission of the person violating his/her duty of good faith contracts in business transaction"
It also states, "A person who, having the custody of another's property, embezzles or refuses to return it, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years or by a fine not exceeding fifteen million won"
Korean law applies fraud widely; it includes advertent negligence.
On December 24 2015 08:26 RoninKenshin wrote: Fraud is wrongful or criminal deception, defined by malicious intent from the beginning in most countries. I don't know Korean law, but there should be no reason for Sonic to stand in front of criminal court for his actions..
Unfortunately, it is perfectly illegal if all those things are true, according to Korean penal system.
The law states, "Deception includes any commission or omission of the person violating his/her duty of good faith contracts in business transaction"
It also states, "A person who, having the custody of another's property, embezzles or refuses to return it, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years or by a fine not exceeding fifteen million won"
Korean law applies fraud widely; it includes advertent negligence.
Sonic (or his corporation) is guilty of the first part, but does involve criminal court? In the second part, I think there's a strong case that he neither embezzled or refused to return any property if he did his books correctly.
as much as I enjoy seeing SBENU team on the proleague scene, when I see their shoes I always think that there isn't much to attract buyers other than those long-legged models wearing them. I have never wore them to determine their quality, but the design is nothing special.
On December 24 2015 21:51 Superouman wrote: RIP bw scene
Wow. Haven't seen that kind of post in forever. Kind of makes me nostalgic for all those years of ded game bashing SC1. /sarcasmOff. The Brood War scene is far from danger at this point. Sonic rebuilt BW yes, but Kongdoo and Afreeca are the bulls pulling the wagon right now. The super high korean viewership numbers and continuing flow of returning BW legends is a great indicator that things are going to be alright.
On December 24 2015 21:51 Superouman wrote: RIP bw scene
Wow. Haven't seen that kind of post in forever. Kind of makes me nostalgic for all those years of ded game bashing SC1. /sarcasmOff. The Brood War scene is far from danger at this point. Sonic rebuilt BW yes, but Kongdoo and Afreeca are the bulls pulling the wagon right now. The super high korean viewership numbers and continuing flow of returning BW legends is a great indicator that things are going to be alright.
On December 24 2015 22:25 BLinD-RawR wrote: why the smiley face?
but no sonic essentially left the BW scene after September we're still standing so yeah say what you will but dead game it is not.
When is a game considered dead anyway? Even WC3 can't be considered dead, it has huge prizemoney tournaments in china even if streams barely pull viewers on twitch.tv
On December 24 2015 22:25 BLinD-RawR wrote: why the smiley face?
but no sonic essentially left the BW scene after September we're still standing so yeah say what you will but dead game it is not.
When is a game considered dead anyway? Even WC3 can't be considered dead, it has huge prizemoney tournaments in china even if streams barely pull viewers on twitch.tv
According to all the shitposters on reddit (that have leaked onto TL over the last few years), anything that isn't LoL, DotA2, CSGO or passionstone is a dead game... so yeah.
On December 24 2015 08:26 RoninKenshin wrote: Fraud is wrongful or criminal deception, defined by malicious intent from the beginning in most countries. I don't know Korean law, but there should be no reason for Sonic to stand in front of criminal court for his actions. His company would stand in front of civil court for not upholding his contract, and his company would be responsible for the debt, with the assets of the company being seized for payment, and likely going bankrupt in the process. If he didn't create a corporation, it's possible that he could be responsible for the debt himself, and be forced to declare bankruptcy, with the possible of portions of the debt still following him after that. If he did something like borrow money to manufacture the shoes and then made the shoes but rather spent the money, then that would be fraud and he could possibly see jail time.
The reason why he doesn't have money to pay back the manufacturers is because he spent it all. He suddenly had a huge influx of cash, and decided that SBENU was bigger than it was, and created an insane amount of overhead. He leased very expensive and large stores when he could have just distributed his shoes through any other store. He hired a LOT of A-list (in Korea) celebrities to advertise his shoes, when he should have just either used only one or instagram models or something. I understand hiring one A-list to get SBENU's name out, but anything following that up is redundant, and also just makes the branding confusing. Maybe he just wanted to party with the girls or something.
Finally, for the reason why we love him, he haphazardly sponsored everything Starcraft. Let's be honest here. Every dollar he put into Starcraft probably saw zero return, or a few cents at the most. IU commercials gave him infinitely more relevant exposure than all the Starcraft leagues and tournaments in the world. He sponsored out of love for the game, but he should have really slowed down and done it at a stable pace, not one that assumes initial growth will be constant.
All of these expenses are stupid, but legal and on board. There's no criminal element to them. Obviously he had his splurges: parties and expensive things and an expensive girlfriend. Every company does this though. The problem was the massive monthly overhead that he had (and likely the margins were pretty low looking at the revenue vs profit).
No idea if sbenu was a limited liability corporation. Also, either way Korean law could be quite different (and somehow harsher in my imagination), even in Canada/U.S. personal bankruptcies are a bitch to deal with, subject to prolonged partial debt repayment plans, wage garnishments, and prosecutors usually try their hardest to drag out the process and make it as painful as they can for you, in hopes of getting more of the money owed.
From my limited knowledge, the Korean judicial system seems more punitive than rehabilitative (in comparison to Canada), so Sonic... good luck. $30 million USD is no joke.
On December 25 2015 23:32 Dansickle wrote: Interview with Sonic came out last night, if anyone is interested. I'll try to translate some of the highlights when I'm not busy this weekend.
On January 11 2016 09:53 showstealer1829 wrote: So do we need a Team 7 as well as a Team 8 in proleague now or do SBENU have to get the sweet StarTale "We need a sponsor" jumpers back out?
On January 11 2016 09:50 RCCar wrote: Update on sonic: http://gall.dcinside.com/starcraft_new/4070963 Fraud confirmed. Sonic currently on the lam Sbenu currently the hot keyword of korean portal sites
:o
Can someone translate, or at least a bit more elaborate summary?
Sonic's got to run to the North Korean border if he wants to be safe from those fraud charges.
Now on to Proleague. What are they going to do now? Just run the season with only 6 teams? Or create two new rookie teams that will probably do worse than Prime (somehow)?
What I understood, the writer did some investigation. He found proofs that Sonic soldh is shoes to warhouses who sold the shoes way cheaper then SBENU franchiese stores. I understand the text like the company SBENU is bankrupt and Sonic more or less delayed filing of insolvency for the company via tricks.
On January 11 2016 09:50 RCCar wrote: Update on sonic: http://gall.dcinside.com/starcraft_new/4070963 Fraud confirmed. Sonic currently on the lam Sbenu currently the hot keyword of korean portal sites
:o
Can someone translate, or at least a bit more elaborate summary?
i just started doing a rough summary, just asking to make sure its not wasted effort and someone whos better at translating is already doing one?
On January 11 2016 09:50 RCCar wrote: Update on sonic: http://gall.dcinside.com/starcraft_new/4070963 Fraud confirmed. Sonic currently on the lam Sbenu currently the hot keyword of korean portal sites
:o
Can someone translate, or at least a bit more elaborate summary?
i just started doing a rough summary, just asking to make sure its not wasted effort and someone whos better at translating is already doing one?
On January 11 2016 09:50 RCCar wrote: Update on sonic: http://gall.dcinside.com/starcraft_new/4070963 Fraud confirmed. Sonic currently on the lam Sbenu currently the hot keyword of korean portal sites
:o
Can someone translate, or at least a bit more elaborate summary?
i just started doing a rough summary, just asking to make sure its not wasted effort and someone whos better at translating is already doing one?
horangnabi please
very rough summaries/translations of the dcinside link. its a summary some guy did of the tv segment that came out about sbenu
1. starts with one factory executive in the nude (t/n: on article I read about this guy, he basically went to sbenu hq took off his clothes and was yelling "give me my money!") money he is owed 2,800,000,000 Won ($2,318,456 USD)
2. this factory and many others related businesses in busan are all in danger of bankruptcy.
3. the guy who was heard in phone recordings (found here: http://blog.naver.com/sbenu2016) comes out (he's a sbenu investor/branch owner) : - after the overstock/clearance stores showed up he was selling like 0~3 shoes a day. - the branch stores sell shoes at 79,000 Won but clearance stores sell same shoe for 39,000 Won. customer come get mad come yell at him and demand refund - some dude who bought sbenu shoes at regular price gets mad saying he paid so much money for shitty shoes
4. sonic comes out: - comes out with the mosaic voice change identity hiding state you see most criminals show up on tv - says same thing he said in wikitree interview "clerance store merchandise is not from us, that's all 하이키/highkey(?) (management agency) doing" - mbc checks in with clearance store and they tell them "we got these shoes from sbenu" - next day they contact sonic again and he says "i didnt know so i said i dont know!"
5. reason why branch stores cant close business - this detail wasnt included in the 부산공장 (t/n: this guy is highkey ceo's son from what i know) online leaks (t/n: there were a ton regarding phone calls, pictures, legal documents suing sonic, log of all the different cars leased with sbenu money etc..) - the stock left in branch stores have been seized - branch owners cant even sell the stuff they have so they cant close down the business - money invested to open branch minimum 30,000,000 Won to sometimes 200,000,000 Won. also when branch sells one 99,000 Won shoe, sbenu gets 54,000 Won - but they are selling the same shoe at clearance for 49,000 Won
6. sbenu management director comes out: - says same stuff sonic been saying blaming highkey saying they seized the funds - but does say that the cause of all this is crappy management from parties involved with sbenu - even this sbenu director is saying all the money they wasted on marketting kinda backfired on them - summarizer points out that this director says "this company" instead of "our company" so he seems like a third party (t/n: the 부산공장 guy who was posting details online said there were a bunch of new people sonic brought in to try and clean up the mess and cover tracks and stuff) - says sonic sold all his supercars
in between you see one of his fancy super cars (부산공장 added this picture in this post http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=starcraft_new&no=4071302&page=1&exception_mode=recommend showing 14 different cars leased using sbenu money but a lot of them were under a third party company name) and articles saying how well his business is doing, and how much profit he plans to make in 2015
7. lies that are snowballing out of control - since october sonics been saying he brought in some big company rep who would invest in sbenu so the money is coming - turns out this was a lie - mbc contacted this big company, says they dont have that guy employed and there was no discussion regarding investment - the management director says they were tricked by this big company rep for 3 months - dude looked real mad, seems like a victim
8. conclusion and next step(?) (t/n: i think this last part is a lot of personal opinion from the guy who wrote this summary) - even in this situation, factory and branch owners dont want the brand to fail - of course, if the brand fails and dies out then all these ppl lose their jobs - but its progressed too far, past the point of return - personally i think they should reveal all the evidence lower the cost of merchandise, everyone buy a pair or two out of pity or government or big business intervenes and we send the shoe abroad - of course the person responsible for this mess should be punished accordingly and spend the rest of his life repaying his debts. (t/n: some last end bits kinda poking fun at the situation of sonic collecting pity balloons of afreeca has his loan shark count the money)
im sure theres ppl who are better at korean that can point out any mistakes i made in translation. of course this is a summary some other guy wrote but i read a lot of the indvidual stuff thats been surfacing the past couple weeks and this seems to line up a lot with what I know
edit: i dunno why but when ever scandulous shit happens its just so entertaining :S
More refined explanation. There was a TV Program (MBC Current Affairs Magazine 2580) that went around trying to find out the details behind Sbenu. The program was broadcasted yesterday evening (I think? Not super sure about time anymore). Sonic has been reported missing this morning.
The link was basically a summary of the program. (there might be mistakes on my money calculations. All calc was done using the currency converter, but I couldn't type in some numbers (too high) for a few so I might have miscounted some zeros.
Basics: Sonic is currently being blamed for lying to franchise members about profit, increasing the money needed to join Sbenu franchise, and spending all the money on his former debt, cars, and over-marketing Sbenu. The problem became an actual big issue when clearance stores that sell the exact same shoes for less than 50% of the price popped up around Sbenu franchise stores. When the owners complained, Sonic replied that 하이키 , the main factory that manufactures Sbenu shoes, has stolen shoes behind his back and has sold them off to these new places. Son of 하이키's owner appears and says he has the facts, has the recordings, and will prove Sonic wrong. (His posts are written as 부산공장(busan factory) on Starcraft Gallery. There is also 1 post that pretends to be him but is just bait.) This program basically confirmed what Busan Factory was saying all along and destroys Sonic's "interview" on wikitree.
1. Program starts off with the Sbenu factory manager (Mr.Lee) harming himself as a demonstration against Sonic. Mr. Lee has lost 2,240,000USD. 2. Including Mr. Lee's factory, almost every sbenu related(shoe parts, finished shoe) factory down in the Busan region is currently in debt and is about to shut down.
3. Donseongro Sbenu shop manager appears for interview, says a few things: 3-1. After the clearance stores popped up, he has sold 3 shoes on a good day. 3-2. Past customers who bought the shoes at 63.2$ see the shoes being sold for 31.2$ and come back for refunds(lots of screaming involved) 3-3. One customer who came for refunds gets interviewed, says he feels ripped off because he could buy the same shoe for less than half the price now.
4. Sonic on interview. 4-1. Face blurred and voice changer activated (lol) 4-2. Says the same things he said on wikitree (basically "the Busan Factory stole my shoes and sold them over, not the main branch") 4-3. 2580 contacts the clearance store. Cheap shoe store claims the shoes are 100% from the main branch. 4-4. Getting back to Sonic the next day. Tells him what the shoe store said. Sonic gets angry: "Well damn I didn't know OK?"
5. Franchise members cannot apply for broke because: 5-1. Franchise storage is under seizure. 5-2. Since products have officially become the banks', they can't sell them 5-3. Can't sell the shoes, can't get rid of storage, can't apply for broke 5-4. The membership fee for Sbenu was 24,000$ to 160,000$ 5-5. It is revealed that for every 79$ shoe, the store owners have to give the main branch 43$ 5-6. Currently selling that same shoe for 39$ at the cheap store xD
6. Management director (of Sbenu?) appears 6-1. Says same thing Sonic says (하이키 stole) 6-2. However, also says that this situation arose because of the main branch's idiotic management 6-3. Says Sbenu used too much of its money on elaborate marketing when foundations weren't stable. 6-4. Continues to talk about Sbenu as if it isn't his company. Calls Sbenu "This company", so doesn't really sound like he is the management director (of Sbenu, at least) 6-5. Sonic got rid of his fancy sports cars.
7. Lies snowballing 7-1. Around October, Sonic appears with another guy, saying he's a board member of a big company. Sonic goes around factories, claims the guy will invest in Sbenu big time soon, so please wait to receive payment for the shoes(Never paid up, btw). 7-2. "The other guy" was not a board member of the big company. 7-3. 2580 e-mailed the company named, company says there is no such man who ever worked for them, and have never heard about investing into Sbenu. 7-4. Upon hearing this, the Management director looks absolutely shocked. 7-5. Have been trolled with for around 3 months by Sonic and the mysterious fraud.
8. Finishing up 8-1. Still, the factories and store owners hope Sbenu doesn't collapse 8-2. Reason is, they still need to sell those shoes and get back at least some of the money
Sonic is neck deep in debt, high chance he is involved with loan sharks.
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
The shoes were crappy and were definitely not worth the 70$, but a lot of products are overpriced. That part I can live with. The fraud part is where Sonic pretends Sbenu had more income than it did to bring in more franchise members, take their investments, and spend it all on dumb places (His debt, cars, marketing that isn't needed). Sonic then gave factories order to produce more shoes without actually having the money to pay for them. Hence, the factories just used up all their resources without ever getting income. When Sonic got into a pinch, he began to sell shoes at half price from the main branch, and decided to blame it on 하이키, the factory in busan. Sonic's guys continue to maintain its a complicated issue, and there is more to it. Sonic cannot be reached for comment.
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
The shoes were crappy and were definitely not worth the 70$, but a lot of products are overpriced. That part I can live with. The fraud part is where Sonic pretends Sbenu had more income than it did to bring in more franchise members, take their investments, and spend it all on dumb places (His debt, cars, marketing that isn't needed). Sonic then gave factories order to produce more shoes without actually having the money to pay for them. Hence, the factories just used up all their resources without ever getting income. When Sonic got into a pinch, he began to sell shoes at half price from the main branch, and decided to blame it on 하이키, the factory in busan. Sonic's guys continue to maintain its a complicated issue, and there is more to it. Sonic cannot be reached for comment.
Not that I'm condoning what was done but who the hell does a job like that without the check clearing first?
This is crazy. Sonic is in deep shit, and unfortunately I don't think he will be able to climb out of this one. It's a shame since we all got some great memories from the tournaments that he sponsored across several games, not to mention catchy commercials with IU and AOA.
I hope someone else can eventually come in and fill the void.
Next question for SC2 will be - did Sbenu pay all the sponsorship/prize-money they promised? Wouldn't be the first time, that the money comes with delay or not at all.
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
from my understanding its like this
1. sonic spends a fortune on advertisement and marketing, ppl see IU AOA and ppl in drama wearing sbenu shoes and they start to sponsor many different esports stuff (sc2 lol bw etc) it seems really successful and gains rep
2. sbenu goes to factory and uses their rep as some kind of giant super growing company and asks to began shoe production and signs contracts saying funds will be delivered in due time. the highkey ceo's son made public online a bunch of different written contracts sonic stamped saying this will be promised that will be promised etc. but sbenu continues to lag it and blames highkey the management agency saying they have the money. factory has no choice but to sell shoes they have stocked up for cheap. sbenu comes in and buys this posing as a third party for very cheap.
3. investors are like "wow we totally want a piece of this action" so they invest heavily, 100+ stores nation wide, minimum ~30k$ investment up to like ~200k$
4. sbenu supplies (probably also runs) clearance overstock store with shoes they scammed from factory as third party and sells the same shoes they sell at branch stores for 40~60% discounted prices. sbenu for a while stated they did not give these stores they shoes but this was found out to be a lie in the phone recordings 부산공장 posted online. of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
5. now according to very recent stuff that 부산공장 posted on dc, apparently the money sbenu makes from these they launder through some kind of unnamed entertainment agency.
also I read that everything sbenu hasnt been able to get trademark rights since june 2015, because
A)
their logo is like 90% copied from something else
B) theres a shoe brand called SOBENU and they were basically like "yo your brand name is too similar to ours" and did some legal stuff to which sbenu gave no response
On January 11 2016 13:58 jinyung2 wrote: of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
What, so IntoTheRainbow the Starcraft player got played? Damn. I'm thinking Sonic got squeezed by his loan sharks and caused the whole house of cards crumbling or he was really salting away the cash.
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
from my understanding its like this
1. sonic spends a fortune on advertisement and marketing, ppl see IU AOA and ppl in drama wearing sbenu shoes and they start to sponsor many different esports stuff (sc2 lol bw etc) it seems really successful and gains rep
2. sbenu goes to factory and uses their rep as some kind of giant super growing company and asks to began shoe production and signs contracts saying funds will be delivered in due time. the highkey ceo's son made public online a bunch of different written contracts sonic stamped saying this will be promised that will be promised etc. but sbenu continues to lag it and blames highkey the management agency saying they have the money. factory has no choice but to sell shoes they have stocked up for cheap. sbenu comes in and buys this posing as a third party for very cheap.
3. investors are like "wow we totally want a piece of this action" so they invest heavily, 100+ stores nation wide, minimum ~30k$ investment up to like ~200k$
4. sbenu supplies (probably also runs) clearance overstock store with shoes they scammed from factory as third party and sells the same shoes they sell at branch stores for 40~60% discounted prices. sbenu for a while stated they did not give these stores they shoes but this was found out to be a lie in the phone recordings 부산공장 posted online. of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
5. now according to very recent stuff that 부산공장 posted on dc, apparently the money sbenu makes from these they launder through some kind of unnamed entertainment agency.
also I read that everything sbenu hasnt been able to get trademark rights since june 2014, because
A)
their logo is like 90% copied from something else
B) theres a shoe brand called SOBENU and they were basically like "yo your brand name is too similar to ours" and did some legal stuff to which sbenu gave no response
How the fuck did anyone think they could get away with copying that logo?? Is this for real?
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
from my understanding its like this
1. sonic spends a fortune on advertisement and marketing, ppl see IU AOA and ppl in drama wearing sbenu shoes and they start to sponsor many different esports stuff (sc2 lol bw etc) it seems really successful and gains rep
2. sbenu goes to factory and uses their rep as some kind of giant super growing company and asks to began shoe production and signs contracts saying funds will be delivered in due time. the highkey ceo's son made public online a bunch of different written contracts sonic stamped saying this will be promised that will be promised etc. but sbenu continues to lag it and blames highkey the management agency saying they have the money. factory has no choice but to sell shoes they have stocked up for cheap. sbenu comes in and buys this posing as a third party for very cheap.
3. investors are like "wow we totally want a piece of this action" so they invest heavily, 100+ stores nation wide, minimum ~30k$ investment up to like ~200k$
4. sbenu supplies (probably also runs) clearance overstock store with shoes they scammed from factory as third party and sells the same shoes they sell at branch stores for 40~60% discounted prices. sbenu for a while stated they did not give these stores they shoes but this was found out to be a lie in the phone recordings 부산공장 posted online. of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
5. now according to very recent stuff that 부산공장 posted on dc, apparently the money sbenu makes from these they launder through some kind of unnamed entertainment agency.
also I read that everything sbenu hasnt been able to get trademark rights since june 2014, because
A)
their logo is like 90% copied from something else
B) theres a shoe brand called SOBENU and they were basically like "yo your brand name is too similar to ours" and did some legal stuff to which sbenu gave no response
How the fuck did anyone think they could get away with copying that logo?? Is this for real?
well when you consider how much fraud he thought he could get away with, the logo is really small fries
lol when sbenu first started making a big name for itself and sonic was busting his ass 24/7 running his company + being involved in starcraft, i had doubts about the survival of his company. how can a startup cope with such growth, massive marketing schemes and a volatile market? turns out it cant really sucks for sonic as he seems like a passionate guy, but tbh cant say im surprised at the outcome.
On January 11 2016 12:44 Cascade wrote: Thanks both translators!
So the main thing he did wrong was to sell overprices shoes? And collecting debts that he couldn't pay off... So the fraud was against the store owners that had to pay sbenu to sell the shoes at unreasonable high price?
from my understanding its like this
1. sonic spends a fortune on advertisement and marketing, ppl see IU AOA and ppl in drama wearing sbenu shoes and they start to sponsor many different esports stuff (sc2 lol bw etc) it seems really successful and gains rep
2. sbenu goes to factory and uses their rep as some kind of giant super growing company and asks to began shoe production and signs contracts saying funds will be delivered in due time. the highkey ceo's son made public online a bunch of different written contracts sonic stamped saying this will be promised that will be promised etc. but sbenu continues to lag it and blames highkey the management agency saying they have the money. factory has no choice but to sell shoes they have stocked up for cheap. sbenu comes in and buys this posing as a third party for very cheap.
3. investors are like "wow we totally want a piece of this action" so they invest heavily, 100+ stores nation wide, minimum ~30k$ investment up to like ~200k$
4. sbenu supplies (probably also runs) clearance overstock store with shoes they scammed from factory as third party and sells the same shoes they sell at branch stores for 40~60% discounted prices. sbenu for a while stated they did not give these stores they shoes but this was found out to be a lie in the phone recordings 부산공장 posted online. of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
5. now according to very recent stuff that 부산공장 posted on dc, apparently the money sbenu makes from these they launder through some kind of unnamed entertainment agency.
also I read that everything sbenu hasnt been able to get trademark rights since june 2014, because
A)
their logo is like 90% copied from something else
B) theres a shoe brand called SOBENU and they were basically like "yo your brand name is too similar to ours" and did some legal stuff to which sbenu gave no response
How the fuck did anyone think they could get away with copying that logo?? Is this for real?
Esports is pretty familiar with logo stealing. CSGO teams have used Twitch emotes as logos, Dota teams once used phone symbols as logos, and Prime's iconic logo got turned into the logo for a PS4 launch title and shown off by Sony at E3.
After 'SBENU Incident' was aired by MBC[one of national channels in Korea] the whole country is clamorous for this issue. It became one of the most searched subjects on the Internet in Korea. It is HOT, indeed.
On 11, Jan. OSEN finally made contact with one of the closest advisers of Sonic. he stated, "As nothing is certain, we`re a bit noncommittal. First, Mr. Hwang didn`t run away; he reports for work now"
...things you already know...
About the lawsuit, he said "It is hard to tell you something. However, we`re victims, too. As we told you once, there`s a problem with agency. For instance, agency went ahead with the work without prior consultation, which caused serious problems to SBENU and manufactures. Everything will be revealed in the court."
With regard to esports, "No problem with LOL, SC2. We`re on the right track. There`s nothing to tell you, because there`s no problem."
Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
i dunno why but that little "-mengmeng" you add at the end cracks me up rofl
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
Though I understand that there are digital divides between foreign scene and Korean scene, sometimes it makes me feel strange that some esports reps who get the worst reputations among Koreans are worshiped here.
I actually have a SBENU jacket and shoes, and I was gonna pick up another pair when I was back in Korea during the summer. They have a built in shoe lift so I don't need to wear one inside lol
On December 20 2015 18:18 digmouse wrote: Is this the worst week/month for Starcraft ever? Flash retiring, new WCS, MMA retiring, Rain retiring and now this?
November was worse, it witnessed the birth of the abomination
i literally wonder, why do you stick around as a known sc2 hater (moved onto sc:bw supposedly) and continue to jab at the game in literally every thread you can imagine. do you want to see the jengas crumble? looking for justification as a joy and hobby? nobody likes a downer at a party. what is the paradox here? do you actually enjoy the game and want it to succeed and to be proven wrong? otherwise what is your problem that you have to voice the contrary to anything and everything related to this game?
"sc2 sucks? sc:bw is waaaay better?" you've already snuck this sentiment in a few dozen times already, at the very least you could get more creative here. you certainly have a lot of practice.
i'm not going to tell you to grow up, but it should be an obvious thing to think about at some point.
It is a really common occurence in game forums. Mostly done by people that still have an interest, but want to avoid getting back into the game. It is a form of self reassurence to have done the right thing, while at the same time not being able to let go completely.
Wow! This is me, basically. Havent touched sc2 multiplayer for more than a year, Im not even watching, yet i still visit tl on a daily basis and read the starcraft content. GFOAT articles made me sad and nostalgic.
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
Though I understand that there are digital divides between foreign scene and Korean scene. sometimes it makes me feel strange that some esports reps who get the worst reputations are worshiped here.
its just that, the digital divide you talk about its just a lack of information conveyed to foreign audience mainly due to language barrier I guess. I really liked sonic at first too until I went digging and sorta found out all his other scandulous stuff with like welch's and savior blah blah and all this sbenu related stuff that surfaced and I kinda took a step back and reevaluated this guy.
ive been reading some book that talks briefly about some "halo effect" where you are likely to jump to conclusion about someone based on first impression and since the first impression with sonic was so good (savior of bw omg! donates to charity! runs tournament at own expense!) I guess a lot of us sorta jumped the gun and assumed he was a really nice guy.
also i think its really wrong that hes saying the esports team will continue. where the fuck is the money coming from? and if he has money shouldnt he be paying back what he owes to all the factory workers he scammed? all the investors he scammed?
Though I understand that there are digital divides between foreign scene and Korean scene. sometimes it makes me feel strange that some esports reps who get the worst reputations among Koreans are worshiped here.
Since all we've really known him for was stepping in and running BW tournaments/sponsoring Starcraft without context, it all comes as quite a shock. I'm sure there are many people who don't want to give up thinking of him as a good thing for the game(s) they love.
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
Though I understand that there are digital divides between foreign scene and Korean scene. sometimes it makes me feel strange that some esports reps who get the worst reputations are worshiped here.
its just that, the digital divide you talk about its just a lack of information conveyed to foreign audience mainly due to language barrier I guess. I really liked sonic at first too until I went digging and sorta found out all his other scandulous stuff with like welch's and savior blah blah and all this sbenu related stuff that surfaced and I kinda took a step back and reevaluated this guy.
ive been reading some book that talks briefly about some "halo effect" where you are likely to jump to conclusion about someone based on first impression and since the first impression with sonic was so good (savior of bw omg! donates to charity! runs tournament at own expense!) I guess a lot of us sorta jumped the gun and assumed he was a really nice guy.
also i think its really wrong that hes saying the esports team will continue. where the fuck is the money coming from? and if he has money shouldnt he be paying back what he owes to all the factory workers he scammed? all the investors he scammed?
mafia money? I don't know, aren't his esports ventures his primary interests anyway?
On January 11 2016 12:03 Circumstance wrote: From savior to sAviOr.
dunno if you were the first to say this but a screencap of u is circling the korean internet fast
grats i guess in a time like this rofl
Can you get a screencap of their screencap and start circulating that? Aside from the inception, I want to see what Koreans talking about us looks like.
before any of you goddamn koreans flame me for reading the most unsourced joke wiki in korea I take this place as a joke with sometimes reasonable information
Its also one of the very few korean websites that actually act as a real wiki and have episode guides and such
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
In the particular case of Sonic, he didn't fuck up BW. He fucked up his business. That's countinng too i gueess
On January 11 2016 16:30 MrHoon wrote: im too lazy to give u links to awful forums and other places so i give u this instead https://namu.wiki/w/스베누?from=SBENU
before any of you goddamn koreans flame me for reading the most unsourced joke wiki in korea I take this place as a joke with sometimes reasonable information
Its also one of the very few korean websites that actually act as a real wiki and have episode guides and such
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
Though I understand that there are digital divides between foreign scene and Korean scene. sometimes it makes me feel strange that some esports reps who get the worst reputations are worshiped here.
its just that, the digital divide you talk about its just a lack of information conveyed to foreign audience mainly due to language barrier I guess. I really liked sonic at first too until I went digging and sorta found out all his other scandulous stuff with like welch's and savior blah blah and all this sbenu related stuff that surfaced and I kinda took a step back and reevaluated this guy.
ive been reading some book that talks briefly about some "halo effect" where you are likely to jump to conclusion about someone based on first impression and since the first impression with sonic was so good (savior of bw omg! donates to charity! runs tournament at own expense!) I guess a lot of us sorta jumped the gun and assumed he was a really nice guy.
also i think its really wrong that hes saying the esports team will continue. where the fuck is the money coming from? and if he has money shouldnt he be paying back what he owes to all the factory workers he scammed? all the investors he scammed?
I`m talking about someone else too, but thank you for your response.
I thought there was something wrong with the number, and when I check out the exchange rate, 490000 KRW is like 400 USD? who would buy shoes that expensive? or are we actually talking about 49000 KRW here?
Man, I missed this thread the first time around, this stuff is fucked up...makes me really wonder what's going to happen to PL, not to mention to all the SBENU players, hopefully they will still get taken care of somehow...
On January 11 2016 15:22 Mengmeng wrote: Why "hope" he gets out of this? Maybe I'm a newcomer, but still even if someone did something for you community who turns out to be a complete dunderhead, why keep having high hopes for them?
- mengmeng
Though I understand that there are digital divides between foreign scene and Korean scene. sometimes it makes me feel strange that some esports reps who get the worst reputations are worshiped here.
its just that, the digital divide you talk about its just a lack of information conveyed to foreign audience mainly due to language barrier I guess. I really liked sonic at first too until I went digging and sorta found out all his other scandulous stuff with like welch's and savior blah blah and all this sbenu related stuff that surfaced and I kinda took a step back and reevaluated this guy.
ive been reading some book that talks briefly about some "halo effect" where you are likely to jump to conclusion about someone based on first impression and since the first impression with sonic was so good (savior of bw omg! donates to charity! runs tournament at own expense!) I guess a lot of us sorta jumped the gun and assumed he was a really nice guy.
also i think its really wrong that hes saying the esports team will continue. where the fuck is the money coming from? and if he has money shouldnt he be paying back what he owes to all the factory workers he scammed? all the investors he scammed?
I`m talking about someone else too, but thank you for your response.
On January 11 2016 16:54 NinjaToss wrote: I thought there was something wrong with the number, and when I check out the exchange rate, 490000 KRW is like 400 USD? who would buy shoes that expensive? or are we actually talking about 49000 KRW here?
The translation messed up the digits. They are one digit too big.
On January 11 2016 16:54 NinjaToss wrote: I thought there was something wrong with the number, and when I check out the exchange rate, 490000 KRW is like 400 USD? who would buy shoes that expensive? or are we actually talking about 49000 KRW here?
ya youre right, i messed up the number of 0's while whipping a up a quick translation
edit: fixed it on my trans post, looks like i messed up all the shoe numbers but not the bigger ones
"I`ll take responsibility for all the things. However, there are things that are not correct. Hence, I`d like to suggest a media meeting with manufactures/franchise owners, on a moral level. I would like to say sorry again, and gonna do my best not to disappoint my supporters. We(SBENU) will do our best to resolve the problem and to become more loved brand."
"I`ll take responsibility for all the things. However, there are things that are not correct. Hence, I`d like to suggest a media meeting with manufactures/franchise owners, on a moral level. I would like to say sorry again, and gonna do my best not to disappoint my supporters. We(SBENU) will do our best to resolve the problem and to become more loved brand."
I gotta to say that SOBENU shoes look waaaay better than SBENU shoes. Now onto the matter at hand, what does this mean for the SC(2)-related things that SBENU/Sonic was sponsoring? Does that mean that the SBENU PL team is gonna be sponsorless again?
On January 11 2016 18:51 OtherWorld wrote: I gotta to say that SOBENU shoes look waaaay better than SBENU shoes. Now onto the matter at hand, what does this mean for the SC(2)-related things that SBENU/Sonic was sponsoring? Does that mean that the SBENU PL team is gonna be sponsorless again?
Startale, nay, SBENU will be fine, because it`s just a title sponsorship.
On January 11 2016 18:51 OtherWorld wrote: I gotta to say that SOBENU shoes look waaaay better than SBENU shoes. Now onto the matter at hand, what does this mean for the SC(2)-related things that SBENU/Sonic was sponsoring? Does that mean that the SBENU PL team is gonna be sponsorless again?
I just hope that SBENU hasn't promised them a lot of money that the sc2 team has spent, but the money will never arrive...
On January 11 2016 19:57 Korakys wrote: Sonic joins the ranks of Savior and Gerrard for bringing the most disrespect to the SC scene.
Thanks to the translators, esp. Thouhastmail and RCCar.
Yesterday I was hoping there would be 8 teams in Proleague this year, now I'm hoping that it goes ahead at all.
His doing basically have nothing to do with SC though so it is not really comparable, and he hasn't been relevant to SC, both BW and SC2 for over half a year now other than name sponsoring a team.
On January 11 2016 19:57 Korakys wrote: Sonic joins the ranks of Savior and Gerrard for bringing the most disrespect to the SC scene.
Thanks to the translators, esp. Thouhastmail and RCCar.
Yesterday I was hoping there would be 8 teams in Proleague this year, now I'm hoping that it goes ahead at all.
His doing basically have nothing to do with SC though so it is not really comparable, and he hasn't been relevant to SC, both BW and SC2 for over half a year now other than name sponsoring a team.
you mean since september, since thats when SBENU Starleague season 2 ended.
On January 11 2016 20:40 Penev wrote: So a 6 team Proleague?
On January 11 2016 15:14 Thouhastmail wrote: With regard to esports, "No problem with LOL, SC2. We`re on the right track. There`s nothing to tell you, because there`s no problem."
On January 11 2016 15:14 Thouhastmail wrote: With regard to esports, "No problem with LOL, SC2. We`re on the right track. There`s nothing to tell you, because there`s no problem."
That's cool but I'm not sure there's nothing to tell us/ no problem
You know what would be fun? If he came out right now saying that he did all for the glorious resurrection of BW and he's but a martyr for the cause! :D
On January 11 2016 21:37 HornyHerring wrote: You know what would be fun? If he came out right now saying that he did all for the glorious resurrection of BW and he's but a martyr for the cause! :D
This is more a punishment for him using his money on anything other then cars, hot kpop chicks, and Brood War.
So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
try googling "sobenu shoes" and it asks "did you mean sbenu"? I assume this Sobenu company are nobodys themselves. Also that logo is as generic as it gets, I wouldn't even take it for free, let alone pay for it.
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
try googling "sobenu shoes" and it asks "did you mean sbenu"? I assume this Sobenu company are nobodys themselves. Also that logo is as generic as it gets, I wouldn't even take it for free, let alone pay for it.
Ironically both SOBENU and SBENU in google for me both ask if i mean SOBENA which appears to be a dead company, Google loses this one for me =X
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
It was a red flag. Its actually been a red flag in korea for ages. There were allegations of bribery and of fake reviews online for months. Sbenu was known as a shady ass place to koreans who actually knew about it (which surprise, werent alot of people).
EDIT: AND DONT GIVE ME THAT "but hoon idols advertised for it how could korea not know" SHIT
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
It was a red flag. Its actually been a red flag in korea for ages. There were allegations of bribery and of fake reviews online for months. Sbenu was known as a shady ass place to koreans who actually knew about it (which surprise, werent alot of people).
EDIT: AND DONT GIVE ME THAT "but hoon idols advertised for it how could korea not know" SHIT
Ah well that's interesting
OBLIGATORY SHIT: But Hoon, Idols Advertised for them, how could Korea remain so unaware!?
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
SK's policies make it hard for start up companies to rise up, all 5 of the richest people in Korea have inherited their wealth compared to none of the 5 in Japan and 1 of 29 in China that inherited their wealth. Korea hasn't had a significant company since STX Shipbuilding and even STX isn't around anymore.
So when "Sonic" started a "fashion" company, most thought it was a joke. And when he started throwing money around like baboon, investigation started.
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
What if you brand it "Adinike" though?
Or "Reebuma", doesn't remind me of anything at all.
The StarCraft scene will shrink more this year. Bad news from Korea, a WCS system that benefits inferior players and a last expansion that did not change much about the flaws that the game is suffering from. I'd assume that news like this one wouldn't hit the scene as hard as they do if Blizzard had not fucked up as much as Blizzard did. It's really sad to see the game declining for those reasons.
On January 12 2016 01:00 boxerfred wrote: The StarCraft scene will shrink more this year. Bad news from Korea, a WCS system that benefits inferior players and a last expansion that did not change much about the flaws that the game is suffering from. I'd assume that news like this one wouldn't hit the scene as hard as they do if Blizzard had not fucked up as much as Blizzard did. It's really sad to see the game declining for those reasons.
This is bad news for StarCraft but more importantly bad news for the franchisees and employees. They got screwed over hard by Sonic here and this may ruin their lives financially.
On January 12 2016 01:00 boxerfred wrote: The StarCraft scene will shrink more this year. Bad news from Korea, a WCS system that benefits inferior players and a last expansion that did not change much about the flaws that the game is suffering from. I'd assume that news like this one wouldn't hit the scene as hard as they do if Blizzard had not fucked up as much as Blizzard did. It's really sad to see the game declining for those reasons.
Everything is an excuse to bash Blizzard
Hard not to bash when most things they do are bashing-worthy, tbh
On January 12 2016 01:00 boxerfred wrote: The StarCraft scene will shrink more this year. Bad news from Korea, a WCS system that benefits inferior players and a last expansion that did not change much about the flaws that the game is suffering from. I'd assume that news like this one wouldn't hit the scene as hard as they do if Blizzard had not fucked up as much as Blizzard did. It's really sad to see the game declining for those reasons.
Everything is an excuse to bash Blizzard
Hard not to bash when most things they do are bashing-worthy, tbh
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
Nothing in this world has drama like south korean esports. All this just amazes me. I wonder if it was planned from the beginning or if they just kept running with trying to make it work until even they didn't understand how it worked.
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
Just read this from the update, that's pretty sad. Have there really been suicides due to this?
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
It becomes easier the moment you realize certain consonants are pronounced differently in Polish and some consontant clusters (e.g. "ci", "ch", "rz", "dz", "dzi") are not pronounced seperately and produce a single sound. I never understood the notion of hard pronounciation in Polish, especially if you are familiar with a language / accent that is rhotic (like Spanish, or even better - Scottish).
If you do try to pronounce everything seperately and the "english way" it does tend to sound ridiculous as fuck though
Back to the topic - Sonic seems to be running his business in a rather shady manner. I hope it's as he says, but all evidence is stacked up against him as of now.
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
It becomes easier the moment you realize certain consonants are pronounced differently in Polish and some consontant clusters (e.g. "ci", "ch", "rz", "dz", "dzi") are not pronounced seperately and produce a single sound. I never understood the notion of hard pronounciation in Polish, especially if you are familiar with a language / accent that is rhotic (like Spanish, or even better - Scottish).
If you do try to pronounce everything seperately and the "english way" it does tend to sound ridiculous as fuck though
Back to the topic - Sonic seems to be running his business in a rather shady manner. I hope it's as he says, but all evidence is stacked up against him as of now.
"Shady manner" is a pretty good description but I think a valid point of view would be also to think about it as just a series of really bad business decisions and not necessarily a pre-planned criminal intent (which is also possible though imo less likely ).
of course what happens is branch stores get fuckedddd people like intotherainbow was extremely mad at sonic cus he was one of the investors and he put in all of his own savings, borrowed money from his family and from his sister to invest in a sbenu branch store and it went out of business VERY fast. 부산공장 mentioned there were some who even took their own lives and a ton of other victims who's lives are being destroyed by this scam
Just read this from the update, that's pretty sad. Have there really been suicides due to this?
Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Not that surprising really.
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
Someone hasn't seen finnish, hue hue. Or the perennial champion of english-speakers slayin', hungarian.
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
It becomes easier the moment you realize certain consonants are pronounced differently in Polish and some consontant clusters (e.g. "ci", "ch", "rz", "dz", "dzi") are not pronounced seperately and produce a single sound. I never understood the notion of hard pronounciation in Polish, especially if you are familiar with a language / accent that is rhotic (like Spanish, or even better - Scottish).
If you do try to pronounce everything seperately and the "english way" it does tend to sound ridiculous as fuck though
English isn't better actually. In which other language can a vocal be part of a consonant like "ti" in "nation" stands for "sh" or the german "sch".
Also look at this: gh in "laugh" = f o in "women" = i ti in "nation" = sh So "ghoti" in english pronounciation could sound like "fish"...
@topic I feel kinda dumb now for bragging in front of my friends with those sbenu SSL-Badges
On January 12 2016 03:51 sabas123 wrote: Im suprised that OGN and SPOTV accepted his sponsorship if they knew this.
How would they know?
Anyway, I am incredibly disapointed in these turn of events. I thought Sonic had a beautiful story, a fan of Starcraft fan, becoming rich and successful and helping prop up professional Starcraft.
Now with the two trademark issues, this is completely unsalvageable. What a shame!
On January 12 2016 03:28 malady wrote: I think we are being too hard on Sonic seems like he just got carried away.
And he did revive Brood war so I won;t forget that.
Get carried away? It seems he systematically lied and put a lot of people and put a lot of people's financial livelihoods down the tubes for nothing.
On January 12 2016 05:44 Dungeontay wrote: Well esports is shrinking, starcraft tournaments vanish, not many reasons left to follow esports
esports is growing though.
I guess Brood War looks like its shrinking because Sonic created an unsustainable bubble with the last few big production Sonic Starleagues. But overall the interest/viewership is still there.
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
It becomes easier the moment you realize certain consonants are pronounced differently in Polish and some consontant clusters (e.g. "ci", "ch", "rz", "dz", "dzi") are not pronounced seperately and produce a single sound. I never understood the notion of hard pronounciation in Polish, especially if you are familiar with a language / accent that is rhotic (like Spanish, or even better - Scottish).
If you do try to pronounce everything seperately and the "english way" it does tend to sound ridiculous as fuck though
o in "women" = i
The fuck? No one I know says women like that, that sounds ridiculous
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Because there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. esports need to turn a profit to be sustainable. Passion =/= money. Sonic may have passion for starcraft, but that doesn't give him the $2million he needs to sustain the business.
On January 12 2016 01:46 Ctesias wrote: I wish we could have a real saviour for the scene for once. Why does this keep happening?
Saviors are cursed. Its the villians that we need. Become relevant again EG!
We just need a new word and it will be fine. Is there a synonym for savior? I'm not a native english speaker and the polish "zbawca/zbawiciel" may be too hard to pronounce.
"zbawca/zbawiciel" those aren't real words at all. How could any work get done with a language like that?
It becomes easier the moment you realize certain consonants are pronounced differently in Polish and some consontant clusters (e.g. "ci", "ch", "rz", "dz", "dzi") are not pronounced seperately and produce a single sound. I never understood the notion of hard pronounciation in Polish, especially if you are familiar with a language / accent that is rhotic (like Spanish, or even better - Scottish).
If you do try to pronounce everything seperately and the "english way" it does tend to sound ridiculous as fuck though
o in "women" = i
The fuck? No one I know says women like that, that sounds ridiculous
I say women ~ wee-man, I remember being thought like that /offtop end
I really don't get this whole SOBENU thing. Maybe it's just Google not searching for korean websites well, but when I searched "SOBENU" on google and even Naver nothing except this thread and one other article about the same thing came up. No record of the company at all not even a website, while SBENU comes up with alot more including their own website. What's up with that?
On January 12 2016 08:46 klipik12 wrote: I really don't get this whole SOBENU thing. Maybe it's just Google not searching for korean websites well, but when I searched "SOBENU" on google and even Naver nothing except this thread and one other article about the same thing came up. No record of the company at all not even a website, while SBENU comes up with alot more including their own website. What's up with that?
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
On January 12 2016 08:46 klipik12 wrote: I really don't get this whole SOBENU thing. Maybe it's just Google not searching for korean websites well, but when I searched "SOBENU" on google and even Naver nothing except this thread and one other article about the same thing came up. No record of the company at all not even a website, while SBENU comes up with alot more including their own website. What's up with that?
Not every company uses the internet.
Every company that's big enough to be worth ripping off does
On January 12 2016 08:46 klipik12 wrote: I really don't get this whole SOBENU thing. Maybe it's just Google not searching for korean websites well, but when I searched "SOBENU" on google and even Naver nothing except this thread and one other article about the same thing came up. No record of the company at all not even a website, while SBENU comes up with alot more including their own website. What's up with that?
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
well that just went completely over your head. he was calling you out on the irony of your post. chances are youre not much more 'productive' than they are in society
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
well that just went completely over your head. he was calling you out on the irony of your post. chances are youre not much more 'productive' than they are in society
It really is my fault for thinking there was a reasonable discussion to be had. I forgot the main site is for trolling.
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
Im curious about this. It does sound like a good thing to help players not get totally screwed later (though the military thing also hurts). Though id imagine the NCAA players take the absolute minimum and enroll in very easy college courses that are probably not at all useful to be productive after their sports attempt. To do more would lessen their chances at the sport due to the lesser practice time. Is that what tends to happen in the NCAA?
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
i also disagree that progamers cannot be productive members of society.
they are progamers that are paid by fans/industry/sponsors to go up on stage and perform for others, they are providing entertainment for society, just like sportsmen, actors, acrobats etc.
Hence they do fulfill a role in society, they are not like basement dwellers that shuns society, leeches and contribute nothing
yes they cannot do this forever but they can easily transition to useful roles in the esports industry thanks to their experience eg. coaches. commentators, casters etc. Or if they are smart/diligent nobody is stopping them from going back to studies, getting an degree and moving into your typical jobs, its never too late to go back to studying. Have seen these plenty enough with the older BW gamers to know its true
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
Well said. Of course e-sports doesn't provide the same job security as a traditional career, but that's what we're striving to change! If nobody was willing to take the plunge, we would never get anywhere. Luckily there are thousands of young men willing to go for it, often for nothing else but glory.
I don't know how you can be a fan of sc2 or e-sports and call it a "video game."
But there is some deep psychology going on here. The people who belittle e-sports and our athletes really just feel JEALOUS. That's what they want, but they don't dare quit the traditional path they walk on either because they can't or won't. I took the path less traveled by and that has made all the difference. -Frost
I stopped really following Brood War after the last OSL but if the Korean scene's gone for good now, I'm going to be incredibly sad. Hopefully someone will consider saving the scene for a while
On January 12 2016 13:57 plasmidghost wrote: I stopped really following Brood War after the last OSL but if the Korean scene's gone for good now, I'm going to be incredibly sad. Hopefully someone will consider saving the scene for a while
the korean BW scene is not gone and its still running, theres even a BW article for a currently running BW offline tournament in the featured news section on TL(assuming you did not filter out BW news)
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
I think IRL sports suffer from the same problem. When you are 33 and have done nothing but play soccer all your life, you're not that attractive on the job market outside sports. I am not speaking about whether soccer or sc players are contributing to the society or not, just that the long-term career prospects aren't very good. Maybe that's the cause of disagreement here? Difference with RL sports is of course that the soccer player will retire at 33 with millions on his bank account, while a gamer is lucky to have 100k. And well, rightfully so in a way, seeing the viewership and merchandise soccer attracts.
Actually I wonder if you maybe have an easier time finding jobs as an ex-gamer, as you at least have some computer skills and can argue that you are smart. Being good at soccer isn't really a skill that transfers well into many jobs....
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
I think IRL sports suffer from the same problem. When you are 33 and have done nothing but play soccer all your life, you're not that attractive on the job market outside sports. I am not speaking about whether soccer or sc players are contributing to the society or not, just that the long-term career prospects aren't very good. Maybe that's the cause of disagreement here? Difference with RL sports is of course that the soccer player will retire at 33 with millions on his bank account, while a gamer is lucky to have 100k. And well, rightfully so in a way, seeing the viewership and merchandise soccer attracts.
Actually I wonder if you maybe have an easier time finding jobs as an ex-gamer, as you at least have some computer skills and can argue that you are smart. Being good at soccer isn't really a skill that transfers well into many jobs....
I don't think that because you're good at a computer game you can argue you're smart.. Or even to have useful computer skills tbh.
Actually I wonder if you maybe have an easier time finding jobs as an ex-gamer, as you at least have some computer skills and can argue that you are smart. Being good at soccer isn't really a skill that transfers well into many jobs....
dexterity on the keyboard does not equate to computer skills, other than menial data entry you will not be able to do anything else without education. but things like excel skills can be selftaught...
nobody expects all of them to be able to transition to become CEOs or high flying positions in corporate worlds. But if they have the high school foundations they can go back to school get a degree and still get a decent job. else they can get some sort of certification to do some other work. korean progamers are disciplined enough to do that. people having notions of sportsman and progamers being utterly useless and unproductive after their careers are simply ridiculous, like someone said they are probably jelly of their achievements.
Actually I wonder if you maybe have an easier time finding jobs as an ex-gamer, as you at least have some computer skills and can argue that you are smart. Being good at soccer isn't really a skill that transfers well into many jobs....
dexterity on the keyboard does not equate to computer skills, other than menial data entry you will not be able to do anything else without education. but things like excel skills can be selftaught...
nobody expects all of them to be able to transition to become CEOs or high flying positions in corporate worlds. But if they have the high school foundations they can go back to school get a degree and still get a decent job. else they can get some sort of certification to do some other work. korean progamers are disciplined enough to do that. people having notions of sportsman and progamers being utterly useless and unproductive after their careers are simply ridiculous, like someone said they are probably jelly of their achievements.
The whole argument about "productive member of society" is a stupid one. Just look at how many companies are benefiting from esport and tell me being a progamer isn't productive
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
"On a video game" This is the very attitude toward e-Sports every community member, should strive to change. That is why getting an athlete visa is such an amazing feat. It shows that the world is looking at gaming as a culture, as a potential sport, not simply "a video game". That is what every pro gamer, from BoxeR and even before that, has striven to achieve. To change the crowd's attitude so eSports is not "a video game" but a "sport". For a gaming community member to turn the effort, the billions of mouse clicks, replay analysis, build experiments every aspiring progamer has practiced into "a non productive video game", saddens me. Appreciate the passion and cheer them on. That is the least you can ever do.
I think IRL sports suffer from the same problem. When you are 33 and have done nothing but play soccer all your life, you're not that attractive on the job market outside sports. I am not speaking about whether soccer or sc players are contributing to the society or not, just that the long-term career prospects aren't very good. Maybe that's the cause of disagreement here? Difference with RL sports is of course that the soccer player will retire at 33 with millions on his bank account, while a gamer is lucky to have 100k. And well, rightfully so in a way, seeing the viewership and merchandise soccer attracts.
Actually I wonder if you maybe have an easier time finding jobs as an ex-gamer, as you at least have some computer skills and can argue that you are smart. Being good at soccer isn't really a skill that transfers well into many jobs....
I don't think that because you're good at a computer game you can argue you're smart.. Or even to have useful computer skills tbh.
I didn't mean that you are smart because you have computer skills, I meant that they must be smart because they are among the best in the world at the game. I agree that it is perfectly possible to play starcraft 10 years without being good at computers. Then dedication and grit maybe is a better point on your CV as mentioned.
i've seen the kpop star SBENU ads...I just dont understand how such generic looking piece of shit apparel even got so popular among teens. have u seen their shoes? they look big, clunky, and dull.
On January 12 2016 08:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Welp seems like I gotta find a new team flair soon :-x
Why does everything have to be too good to be true in esports. It's a natural attractor for shady businessmen somehow.
Bunch of young kids/adults with little to no education and no marketable skill... I wonder why...
While I enjoy eSports, when I think of how many smart kids that chased the dream instead of becoming productive members of society. I wonder too.
Yet another individual wanting other people to become "productive members of society". How sad.
Sorry, spending late teens to late 20s on a video game is a great way to build a career, what was I thinking... /s There is a reason why NBA and NFL has NCAA requirements for draft eligibility.
I dare you to respond with something other than a shit bait for a post.
While not the person you were quoting, I still don't think it has to be about building a career. Not only is it possible to continue to take steps to advance yourself on the career side while taking a shot at something your passionate about, I'd go further and argue that it's worth chasing your dream up to a point.
I think there is very little wrong with putting your "life on hold" (as much as I hate that phraseology) to pursue an ambition or dream that might be a longshot. Worst case is you come out a few years 'behind' others your age...far from the end of the world.
On January 12 2016 15:40 Golgotha wrote: i've seen the kpop star SBENU ads...I just dont understand how such generic looking piece of shit apparel even got so popular among teens. have u seen their shoes? they look big, clunky, and dull.
On January 12 2016 15:40 Golgotha wrote: i've seen the kpop star SBENU ads...I just dont understand how such generic looking piece of shit apparel even got so popular among teens. have u seen their shoes? they look big, clunky, and dull.
Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
This. Business people outside of Asia are selfless sweethearts who do what's right.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
This. Business people outside of Asia are selfless sweethearts who do what's right.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
isn't the same in europe and america and like everywhere ? maybe less obvious than in asia though
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
It's not like Volkswagen hasn't made a major mistake recently.. I'm not defending Asia though.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
isn't the same in europe and america and like everywhere ? maybe less obvious than in asia though
im sure theres businesses doing shady things all around the world. It's just how often would a foreigner hear about a midsize asian business on the news unless there was some big scandal involving it? I don't really have any data or statistics to back up my hunch but maybe we overestimate the rate of corruption in asian businesses.
with that said korea for example industrialized and grew economically in such a short period. + Show Spoiler [GDP chart] +
as amazing as it is, it definitely had some rough patches and shady eras with a lot of gang mafia presence and a lot of shortcuts(?)/bypassing laws, just looking at some issues today with the ship flipping over and building code violations and other shady stuff becoming uncovered. maybe the speed at which the country developed didnt really give it enough time to properly enforce code and laws? i dunno but maybe this idea kinda explains the reason why some asian companies are "behind and messed up."
as amazing as it is, it definitely had some rough patches and shady eras with a lot of gang mafia presence and a lot of shortcuts(?)/bypassing laws, just looking at some issues today with the ship flipping over and building code violations and other shady stuff becoming uncovered. maybe the speed at which the country developed didnt really give it enough time to properly enforce code and laws? i dunno but maybe this idea kinda explains the reason why some asian companies are "behind and messed up."
This is quite accurate, except 'mafia presence'. Ironically, SK`s military regime repressed mafias harshly; it is always interesting to see people hating their own kind.
Rather, it was collusive ties between politicians and businessmen.
↓ Ironically as well, SK`s mafia problems were poped out after its democratisation(90`s). Hence the president declared a crackdown on organized crime that was quite successful at the moment.
So, they tried to discover a fallback in order to survive: Commercialisation. Since then, they`ve been trying to set up companies through which money could be saved (or laundered). However, because it`d been repressed by government for a long time, those mobs couldn`t become as big as triad or yakuza.
Still, it is known that some of'em are survived and remain quite influential; there`s no place free from crimes.
maybe like certain movies influenced my judgement a bit on the topic haha I thought there was a small period of time where there was quite a lot of gang presence involved in the country from my understanding nowadays its extremely suppressed? im just korean who live in USA for very long time who is kinda removed from their politics and culture but sorta curious how its all running lately. thanks for the correction
I'm not going to bother to put 3 paragraphs of common sense disclaimers any time I write a controversial opinion on the internet. Of course corruption and nepotism happen everywhere but Asia is generally has more issues in this area than America or Europe; simply due to rapid industrialisation and modernisation, foreign multinationals getting their claws in before the governments of the countries could put together all the laws and bodies required to manage these kinds of things, crime in some countries, cultural clashes and tribalistic attitude in some places, nepotism being an endorsed practice in confucianism etc.
I'm not sure what refering to a screw up from a British company in the 1700's has to do with anything, you don't need to go back to the colonial era to find examples of non Asian companies messing up this stuff, nor am I suggesting Asian countries have issues as deep as Britain did 300 years ago. It's a thorn in the side of Asian economies and some companies involved in Asia, not a rampant epidemic or bubble about to pop.
Well, generally, developed nations are cleaner than developing nations. South Korea is somewhere in the middle.
The Confucian tradition in East Asia doesn't help either in terms of having shady crap. It has its pros and cons. Stronger nepotism is one of the cons.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
This. Business people outside of Asia are selfless sweethearts who do what's right.
It does seem to be more widespread/blatant, though.
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
This. Business people outside of Asia are selfless sweethearts who do what's right.
It does seem to be more widespread/blatant, though.
I'd say it's cleaner in Western Europe where people's rights have been fought longer historically, but US is pretty dark and dirty too by my standards. Not saying that Western Europe not dirty though, there are a lot of iffy things goings on too. Not sure other parts of the world though-- don't know too much about it.
Con men exist everywhere, the asian shady is just a different style of shady, so it seems more rampant to us, while western shady seems "normal".
Just a few weeks ago i read in the newspapers about a guy that owned a claim for a windpark in the north sea that could never be built because it was in an area of the north sea the navy uses to train. He packaged that off with a power plant that apparently was not total shit. Then he created a new company, very aggressively looked for investors, and sold the claim and the power plant for double what they were worth to the new company. That company then went bankrupt, meaning the investors lost all of their money (Despite it being marketed as a "safe" investment), while the guy just pocketed the money from the "sale" of the windpark claim and power plant.
On January 13 2016 06:43 andrewlt wrote: Well, generally, developed nations are cleaner than developing nations. South Korea is somewhere in the middle.
The Confucian tradition in East Asia doesn't help either in terms of having shady crap. It has its pros and cons. Stronger nepotism is one of the cons.
SK is TOP 15 in the Human Development Index as of 2014, in other words, SK is one of the developed nation in world.
I would agree with you if it was in the late 90's or early 2000's.
On January 13 2016 11:15 nanaoei wrote: what about all those fans who imported sbenu shoes to support the scene? ): all these major sc2 vets who wanted a bright future? ): ...
I was going to, but Sbenu doesn't make clown shoes. (US size 13)
On January 13 2016 06:43 andrewlt wrote: Well, generally, developed nations are cleaner than developing nations. South Korea is somewhere in the middle.
The Confucian tradition in East Asia doesn't help either in terms of having shady crap. It has its pros and cons. Stronger nepotism is one of the cons.
SK is TOP 15 in the Human Development Index as of 2014, in other words, SK is one of the developed nation in world.
I would agree with you if it was in the late 90's or early 2000's.
It's all relative really. Plus the HDI doesn't take into account subjective factors like social and cultural factors. You could live a long time, make a lot of money and still be a giant douchebag.
Unethical business dealings in the West and other more individualism driven areas are legalized and legitimized through lobbying and legislative channels.
Unethical business dealings in Asian and other more communitarianism driven areas are socialized through unwritten consensus and legitimized through mutually guaranteed privilege and advantage.
That's all there really is to it, in the end everybody understands whether or not their business dealings reside in a moral or legal grey area regardless of which part in the world they come from, the only difference is whether the prevailing corporate atmosphere coincides with the legislative and majority social power and how it manifests in society. The Swiss understand why assisting tax evasion and willful financial opaqueness is frowned upon, just as the Americans understand why deregulated and opportunistic financial markets are frowned upon, just as the Chinese understand why blatant social corruption is frowned up, and so on. All you can really do is look at the cause and effect of prevailing social trends in those areas and make personal choices about whether you wish to participate based on your arbitrary needs and wants optimization system.
As someone who comes from China where this type of socialized corruption is rampant, you can't even get your kids into good kindergartens and have the teachers be attentive to your child's growth and needs with out bribing a couple dozen officials and constantly paying cumulative social and financial upkeep to teachers and supervisors. But you do it because you want your kids to have good education, get a head start, and have a positive learning experience. If the social and legal system is toxic often there isn't actually a choice at all because the system is designed or evolved over time to capitalize on the fundamental needs and wants of stakeholders.
This isn't to preach moral relativism, I think everybody who is socially aware and does any degree of investigative thinking understands why their own societies are the way that they are, the only moral relevance is the choices that they personally make in their daily lives. Trying to subscribe to a strict code of ethics will often put you at a competitive disadvantage, it's as simple as that.
On January 13 2016 06:43 andrewlt wrote: Well, generally, developed nations are cleaner than developing nations. South Korea is somewhere in the middle.
The Confucian tradition in East Asia doesn't help either in terms of having shady crap. It has its pros and cons. Stronger nepotism is one of the cons.
SK is TOP 15 in the Human Development Index as of 2014, in other words, SK is one of the developed nation in world.
I would agree with you if it was in the late 90's or early 2000's.
not sure what the criteria was for that statistic, but if youre looking strictly at the economics then yes, south korea is a 'developed' country. i put developed in quotation marks because the big companies are literally dragging sk's numbers up like mad. gdp per capita is still very low in south korea for a developed country if you look at lifestyle, cultural aspects, education etc then no, i would not consider south korea a developed country at all. and im saying this as a korean whos lived both in korea and overseas. dont let the strict school regimes and long study/work hours fool you, koreans severely lack common sense (the most broad and general way i can describe it). the things that go through the minds of many koreans still would shock and appall many people that were raised in western countries. korea's economy grew at a rate which the minds of the citizens could not, which is why there is an illusion that south korea is by all definitions a developed country, when in reality there is still some way to go. none of this is particularly relevant to the sonic case though
On January 13 2016 06:43 andrewlt wrote: Well, generally, developed nations are cleaner than developing nations. South Korea is somewhere in the middle.
The Confucian tradition in East Asia doesn't help either in terms of having shady crap. It has its pros and cons. Stronger nepotism is one of the cons.
SK is TOP 15 in the Human Development Index as of 2014, in other words, SK is one of the developed nation in world.
I would agree with you if it was in the late 90's or early 2000's.
gdp per capita is still very low in south korea for a developed country
One problem, especially for forums that skew younger, is that it's easy to forget (or not understand) how long it takes to create certain things. A "good business environment" took hundreds of years to develop and take hold in the Northern European countries. The value that those business cultures could produce rapidly took over the world, but they're learned skills that take time.
South Korea was occupied before WW1 started, was a military authoritarian regime until 1987, and has less than 30 years of Self-rule. The entire culture has a whole lot to learn still. They're also still in the grip of their Debt-fueled Asset bubble. (Though it's not quite as bad as other countries.) This creates its own social disjunctions.
But the "old ways" are going to be around for a while. It's always hard to understand, from a Western point of view, how certain forms of collusion & bribery aren't just legal but actually expected in Business in the East. (Though different contexts between the cultures.) While at the same time, South Korea is rapidly Christianizing (along with parts of China), which will cause another dislocation due to further shifts of expectations and personal accountability. But we'll still get events like with Sonic. It's just the nature of things.
Lastly, there's an important "good governance" maxim to remember: there's also shady things happening, they only become evident when the things go wrong with the economy. (And we're headed into a global recession, if we're not already there.)
On January 13 2016 00:40 Iksf wrote: Sigh, business in asia. Always the same things: incompetence, nepotism, lies, loans, faking capital or investors... Sweeping statement sure, plenty of perfectly brilliant Asian businesses, but with all the talk of how tomorrow is an Asian's world; people often forget how behind and messed up Asia is on some things.
This. Business people outside of Asia are selfless sweethearts who do what's right.
It does seem to be more widespread/blatant, though.
Business people in the west have created Bhopal, the VW emissions scandal, the corruption cases of the banks in the recent crisis, the whole Foxconn/Adidas/Nike-sweatshop stuff, MacDonalds and Walmart union busting and so on and so on and so on. And on a lesser scale the sort of thing that Sonic's done happens all the time in the west.
On January 14 2016 07:55 dr3am_b3ing wrote: Must be why MyungSiK left that team so abruptly
You're right, it's the only thing that makes sense. MyuNgSiK was so close with Sonic that Sonic told him all about his business practices back in August. MyuNgSiK then fled the team, knowing that the SBENU company would eventually collapse.
On January 14 2016 07:55 dr3am_b3ing wrote: Must be why MyungSiK left that team so abruptly
You're right, it's the only thing that makes sense. MyuNgSiK was so close with Sonic that Sonic told him all about his business practices back in August. MyuNgSiK then fled the team, knowing that the SBENU company would eventually collapse.
Dodged the Prime bullet, dodged the potential SBENU bullet.
On January 14 2016 07:55 dr3am_b3ing wrote: Must be why MyungSiK left that team so abruptly
You're right, it's the only thing that makes sense. MyuNgSiK was so close with Sonic that Sonic told him all about his business practices back in August. MyuNgSiK then fled the team, knowing that the SBENU company would eventually collapse.
Dodged the Prime bullet, dodged the potential SBENU bullet.
Myungsik knows all.
What if MyuNgSiK is actually the greatest evil SC2 has ever seen and the true reason Prime died and SBENU is in trouble? KT also had a bad Proleague year after he left them, especially Flash. He joins a foreign team, first chance they get WCS is locked and Fantasy and Rain retire... it all adds up.
MyuNgSiK's toughest test yet... destroying SKT. He's off to a good start so far with SK's strongest Terran and strongest Zerg battling to eliminate each other in the first round of the SSL.
been reading some more updates 부산공장 posted on dcinside, looks like sonic delayed his press conference that was supposed to be on the 13th, and he's supplying more clearance stores with shoes.
he posted some kakaotalk text logs of a branch owner talking with sonic about recieving shoes for 17,000KRW each. 부산공장 says the agreement is the branch owner withdraws from the lawsuit in return for merchandise which they then sell at the clearance store price. the branch owner sonic is talking to though happens to be a spy basically and he's seeing what kind of secret stuff sonic is doing. pretty much dispels any doubt people may have had that sbenu supplies the clearance stores with merchandise.
says sonic also met with the president of pusan factory and he may have struck some kind of deal. factory pres changed his attitude about sonic suddenly and says they should give sonic a second chance.
On January 14 2016 07:55 dr3am_b3ing wrote: Must be why MyungSiK left that team so abruptly
You're right, it's the only thing that makes sense. MyuNgSiK was so close with Sonic that Sonic told him all about his business practices back in August. MyuNgSiK then fled the team, knowing that the SBENU company would eventually collapse.
Dodged the Prime bullet, dodged the potential SBENU bullet.
Myungsik knows all.
What if MyuNgSiK is actually the greatest evil SC2 has ever seen and the true reason Prime died and SBENU is in trouble? KT also had a bad Proleague year after he left them, especially Flash. He joins a foreign team, first chance they get WCS is locked and Fantasy and Rain retire... it all adds up.
This means we're all fucked, right?
Someone has to take Shine's place now that he's going to be GSL observer
On January 14 2016 07:55 dr3am_b3ing wrote: Must be why MyungSiK left that team so abruptly
You're right, it's the only thing that makes sense. MyuNgSiK was so close with Sonic that Sonic told him all about his business practices back in August. MyuNgSiK then fled the team, knowing that the SBENU company would eventually collapse.
Dodged the Prime bullet, dodged the potential SBENU bullet.
Myungsik knows all.
What if MyuNgSiK is actually the greatest evil SC2 has ever seen and the true reason Prime died and SBENU is in trouble? KT also had a bad Proleague year after he left them, especially Flash. He joins a foreign team, first chance they get WCS is locked and Fantasy and Rain retire... it all adds up.
This means we're all fucked, right?
Someone has to take Shine's place now that he's going to be GSL observer
If a soldier of Evil observes us, we're all doomed
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
Doesn't seem to be true that SOBENU existed before SBENU. And even if so, why SOBENU started to talk publicly about the copied name and logo only now? Also wikipedia page has a description of how SBENU brand name was formed (info from SBENU website).
SBENU took S for Shoes and combined it with the ancient Egyptian deity Bennu, which is thought to be the inspiration for the Phoenix in Greek mythology.[2] This is supposed to hold in the meaning that these shoes will be immortal. SBENU shoes are very famous for concealing their high insoles that help increase height.
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
Doesn't seem to be true that SOBENU existed before SBENU. And even if so, why SOBENU started to talk publicly about the copied name and logo only now? Also wikipedia page has a description of how SBENU brand name was formed (info from SBENU website).
SBENU took S for Shoes and combined it with the ancient Egyptian deity Bennu, which is thought to be the inspiration for the Phoenix in Greek mythology.[2] This is supposed to hold in the meaning that these shoes will be immortal. SBENU shoes are very famous for concealing their high insoles that help increase height.
스베누의 경우에는 신발·운동화 등 신발 제조 유통전문 업체인 소비뉴(2011년 3월 출원) 측이 이의 신청을 제기했다. 영어로 상표명을 표기할 때 스베누(SBENU)와 소비뉴(SOBENU)가 비슷해 소비자들이 혼동할 수 있다는 이유에서다.
특허청에서는 해당 의견을 스베누 측에 전달했다. 그러나 스베누 측은 기간 내에 소명자료를 제출하지 않았고, 결국 거절 결정을 받았다. 스베누 측은 뒤늦게 지난 16일 거절 결정에 대한 불복 신청을 했다. 이에 대한 결과는 4~6개월 정도 소요될 예정이다.
trans: in sbenu's case, shoe manufacturer/distribution company sobenu (started March 2011) filed an objection. the reason state was the english brand name SBENU was too similar to SOBENU so it could cause confusion for customers.
The patent office delivered the dispute to sbenu. however sbenu did not provide necessary documents by the deadline and eventually was denied (t/n: earlier in the article said it was may 28 2015). sbenu later filed for an appeal [on jun 16 2015]. results of the appeal will be revealed in 4~6 months.
so from this article, sobenu was a company that existed way before sbenu, filed against sbenu and sbenu decided to ignore it and after their licensing rights were denied they decided to actually do something. maybe result of terribly mismanaged business or something I dunno.
and its not that sobenu decided to suddenly do this now, its just you (and the majority of TL) werent aware of the facts that were already present, until now (after I translated stuff). hell even i didnt know until I looked it all up lol. all this happened back in early to mid 2015. and the brand logo is NOT sobenu's logo (in case you may have been confused by that?) its Mcguire Design (https://www.facebook.com/McGuireDesign/).
I can see the thought process sbenu may have had with their S for shoes benu for egyptian god stuff but its 100% their fault for not even responding to the objection from sobenu.
Has anyone else had the mental image of Sonic going out like Tony Montana except throwing armfuls of shoes off the balcony as the police tackle him to take him into custody?
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
Doesn't seem to be true that SOBENU existed before SBENU. And even if so, why SOBENU started to talk publicly about the copied name and logo only now? Also wikipedia page has a description of how SBENU brand name was formed (info from SBENU website).
SBENU took S for Shoes and combined it with the ancient Egyptian deity Bennu, which is thought to be the inspiration for the Phoenix in Greek mythology.[2] This is supposed to hold in the meaning that these shoes will be immortal. SBENU shoes are very famous for concealing their high insoles that help increase height.
Regardless of whether or not Sobenu complained about it, or how genuine and original Sonic's idea of Sbenu was, he probably did think of the name, he can't get the trademark because the names are too similiar.
I can't think of a good example, but it's back in the day and the next town over started the first McDonalds. You don't know that, but you start going into your own restaurant business, it can be a burger, hot dog stand, or a seafood restaurant. It doesn't matter. And Let's say YOUR name is MacDonald. You come up with the name MacDonald because its your own goddam name, and you should be able to use it? But wait, McDonald's was already granted a trademark for using that name for restaurants. So even if you show the work, on how you got the name MacDonald's for your restaurant. Ultimately, they're going to reject your claim because it's too similar to an existing trademark.
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
Doesn't seem to be true that SOBENU existed before SBENU. And even if so, why SOBENU started to talk publicly about the copied name and logo only now? Also wikipedia page has a description of how SBENU brand name was formed (info from SBENU website).
SBENU took S for Shoes and combined it with the ancient Egyptian deity Bennu, which is thought to be the inspiration for the Phoenix in Greek mythology.[2] This is supposed to hold in the meaning that these shoes will be immortal. SBENU shoes are very famous for concealing their high insoles that help increase height.
Regardless of whether or not Sobenu complained about it, or how genuine and original Sonic's idea of Sbenu was, he probably did think of the name, he can't get the trademark because the names are too similiar.
I can't think of a good example, but it's back in the day and the next town over started the first McDonalds. You don't know that, but you start going into your own restaurant business, it can be a burger, hot dog stand, or a seafood restaurant. It doesn't matter. And Let's say YOUR name is MacDonald. You come up with the name MacDonald because its your own goddam name, and you should be able to use it? But wait, McDonald's was already granted a trademark for using that name for restaurants. So even if you show the work, on how you got the name MacDonald's for your restaurant. Ultimately, they're going to reject your claim because it's too similar to an existing trademark.
The irony is that this happened in real life, except McDonald's lost.
On January 11 2016 22:06 ZodaSoda wrote: So SOBENU existed before SBENU and also made shoes? how was this not a red flag straight away? I dunno Korean law, but in the US UK and Australia, if i tried to launch a company called NIKEY who sold shoes, the government would be telling me i need a new name before Nike even noticed...
Doesn't seem to be true that SOBENU existed before SBENU. And even if so, why SOBENU started to talk publicly about the copied name and logo only now? Also wikipedia page has a description of how SBENU brand name was formed (info from SBENU website).
SBENU took S for Shoes and combined it with the ancient Egyptian deity Bennu, which is thought to be the inspiration for the Phoenix in Greek mythology.[2] This is supposed to hold in the meaning that these shoes will be immortal. SBENU shoes are very famous for concealing their high insoles that help increase height.
Regardless of whether or not Sobenu complained about it, or how genuine and original Sonic's idea of Sbenu was, he probably did think of the name, he can't get the trademark because the names are too similiar.
I can't think of a good example, but it's back in the day and the next town over started the first McDonalds. You don't know that, but you start going into your own restaurant business, it can be a burger, hot dog stand, or a seafood restaurant. It doesn't matter. And Let's say YOUR name is MacDonald. You come up with the name MacDonald because its your own goddam name, and you should be able to use it? But wait, McDonald's was already granted a trademark for using that name for restaurants. So even if you show the work, on how you got the name MacDonald's for your restaurant. Ultimately, they're going to reject your claim because it's too similar to an existing trademark.
The irony is that this happened in real life, except McDonald's lost.
Maybe it was a shit example, rofl. God Bless, I feel like everytime I make an analogy, a simile, a parable, a metaphor, it ALWAYS backfires!
But I think this is incredibly different, in that it's not family names, it's fashion trademarks. And yeah, even if it was related, at the end of the day, a fashion company without a trademark is COMPLETELY worthless. You can make an exact same material, design, aesthetic, packaging, as a Nike or a Rebok or whatever, but it's the Swoosh/symbols that allow fashion companies to stop you.
On April 05 2017 07:04 wabe.PrayHard wrote: great post! didn't know anything about post-Kespa era, I watched OSL & MSL. I will definitely watch the recommended matches.
I believe WCG has some issues too in organization, but another story.
On April 05 2017 07:04 wabe.PrayHard wrote: great post! didn't know anything about post-Kespa era, I watched OSL & MSL. I will definitely watch the recommended matches.
I believe WCG has some issues too in organization, but another story.
EPT
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