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Forum Index > SC2 General
58 CommentsPost a Reply
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ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12680 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-01 11:01:41
December 01 2015 10:23 GMT
#41
This was purposed by the community on reddit I think, blizzard has already said they ain't sure how different level of skill reacts to it so a test map makes perfect sense

It's actually depressing to see how we get more on topic discussion about this on reddit than tl.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Archiatrus
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany64 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-01 11:13:18
December 01 2015 10:40 GMT
#42
I do not get why everybody is angry. I mean this needs to be tested. There are people who have concerns about this burrow change and do not want it to change. They like to ctrl+click burrowed roaches to control them. This is probably not possible anymore if there is only one subgroup. On reddit there were several heated discussions about this. With this test map both groups, the ones who want this change and the ones who do not, can test it without theory crafting and see whether their worries or hopes are justified. Of course they could have waited with this for the next "real" test scenario but then Blizz would get flamed because they waited with this minor thing so long. (IMO it is much to early to have one before first GSL.)
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
December 01 2015 11:10 GMT
#43
On December 01 2015 16:24 juvenal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 16:14 Zealously wrote:
On December 01 2015 15:04 ledarsi wrote:
On December 01 2015 14:58 baabaa wrote:
Translation: nothing else needs fixing with more priority than burrow/unburrow. Real translation: we are emphasizing this to try to create the impression that everything else is fine.


Exactly. Read: Everything is fine.

No, Blizzard, everything is not fine.


Do people get a kick out of saying these things? When Blizzard do or do not do something, do you feel like you accomplish something by making posts like this? I mean, the fact that they're putting bug fixed and minute changes on a test map might be questionable, but I don't really see how it indicates what you seem to think it does. Every time Blizzard rush a change, they get just as much shit and potentially much more far-reaching consequences. Should they discard all caution?

settle down, forums are made to be shitposted on. What you read on forums represents the community's reaction, regardless if you want it or not.


And I'm criticizing this particular reaction for being shortsighted and narrow-minded. Funny how that works.
AdministratorBreak the chains
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
December 01 2015 11:17 GMT
#44
On December 01 2015 20:10 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 16:24 juvenal wrote:
On December 01 2015 16:14 Zealously wrote:
On December 01 2015 15:04 ledarsi wrote:
On December 01 2015 14:58 baabaa wrote:
Translation: nothing else needs fixing with more priority than burrow/unburrow. Real translation: we are emphasizing this to try to create the impression that everything else is fine.


Exactly. Read: Everything is fine.

No, Blizzard, everything is not fine.


Do people get a kick out of saying these things? When Blizzard do or do not do something, do you feel like you accomplish something by making posts like this? I mean, the fact that they're putting bug fixed and minute changes on a test map might be questionable, but I don't really see how it indicates what you seem to think it does. Every time Blizzard rush a change, they get just as much shit and potentially much more far-reaching consequences. Should they discard all caution?

settle down, forums are made to be shitposted on. What you read on forums represents the community's reaction, regardless if you want it or not.


And I'm criticizing this particular reaction for being shortsighted and narrow-minded. Funny how that works.

Good thing you are an admin and he's not ^^
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
December 01 2015 11:27 GMT
#45
On December 01 2015 20:17 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 20:10 Zealously wrote:
On December 01 2015 16:24 juvenal wrote:
On December 01 2015 16:14 Zealously wrote:
On December 01 2015 15:04 ledarsi wrote:
On December 01 2015 14:58 baabaa wrote:
Translation: nothing else needs fixing with more priority than burrow/unburrow. Real translation: we are emphasizing this to try to create the impression that everything else is fine.


Exactly. Read: Everything is fine.

No, Blizzard, everything is not fine.


Do people get a kick out of saying these things? When Blizzard do or do not do something, do you feel like you accomplish something by making posts like this? I mean, the fact that they're putting bug fixed and minute changes on a test map might be questionable, but I don't really see how it indicates what you seem to think it does. Every time Blizzard rush a change, they get just as much shit and potentially much more far-reaching consequences. Should they discard all caution?

settle down, forums are made to be shitposted on. What you read on forums represents the community's reaction, regardless if you want it or not.


And I'm criticizing this particular reaction for being shortsighted and narrow-minded. Funny how that works.

Good thing you are an admin and he's not ^^


That really doesn't have anything to do with this particular pet peeve though; it's not like being angry or upset about Blizzard's direction is against TL rules, I just think it's predictable, stale and illogical when people go up in arms over nothing lol
AdministratorBreak the chains
Timelog
Profile Joined May 2015
Netherlands57 Posts
December 01 2015 12:36 GMT
#46
On December 01 2015 07:46 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 07:39 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
your deduction is short sighted.


It's just funny that they use the word "Balance" six times when it's QOL fixing

Which can have a direct effect on balance
Terrible Starcraft 2 player, SC2 EU Battle.Net MVP and overall gaming enthousiast.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
December 01 2015 15:46 GMT
#47
Do we really need a test map for such changes?
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
December 01 2015 16:01 GMT
#48
They might as well do a community poll for whether this change should happen or not, would be a fun experiment.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-01 16:06:57
December 01 2015 16:06 GMT
#49
On December 01 2015 21:36 Timelog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 07:46 Cyro wrote:
On December 01 2015 07:39 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
your deduction is short sighted.


It's just funny that they use the word "Balance" six times when it's QOL fixing

Which can have a direct effect on balance

That depends in which camp you sit on the opinion what balance is and what difficulty is.
For my part easy to play and strong is the same thing, so I agree with you.
But a lot of people will differentiate between those two somehow and then quality of life --> easier to play is not the same as a balance change.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16035 Posts
December 01 2015 16:11 GMT
#50
But nice to see blizzard still makes core changes to the game after release.
Apparently their talk at blizzcon wasn't just PR.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
weikor
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria580 Posts
December 01 2015 16:14 GMT
#51
I just think its funny that we need a test map for a 2 hotkey burrow setup. ITs not really gamechanging.

Dasian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States41 Posts
December 01 2015 16:25 GMT
#52
Test results: Awesome change, I think there are a few issues that need to be tweaked but overall better than before.
Here are some notes:

Testing with the following:

Zergling
Baneling
Lurker
Ravager
Roach
Hydra
Queen
Infestor

-Unburrowing becomes a lot more managable, you can have a bunch of units selected, some burrowed and some not, and hit the unburrow key, which will unburrow everything (except Lurkers which is good, and one other case I think is a bug, see below)

-Burrowed units no longer have a different portraits, however, control left clicking a burrowed unit will still only select burrowed units of that kind, so that functionality remains(yay).

-The functionality to select all burrowed units via portraits however, is gone (even in lurkers). This might be ok since the groupings overlap now anyway, but separate portraits would be nice to keep in my opinion

-While having Lurkers as the active sub-group with all other units, hitting burrow will only burrow the Lurkers, this is good as it doesn't mess up lurker micro.

- selecting all units and hitting burrow will burrow all units EXCEPT the Lurker. This is GOOD, because it's treated separately so people won't be accidentally burrowing everything just to put lurkers in the ground.

Some possible bugs/issues:

The ability to unborrow units of different types is strictly dependent on the states of the active sub-group. Meaning if you have a group of Ling/Bling, and some of the zerglings are burrowed, but none of the banelings are, then you CANNOT unburrow the zerglings without tabbing to the subgroup (since banelings take priority over zerglings).
If at least ONE of the banlings IS burrowed however, then the ability becomes active and hitting unburrow will unburrow everything.
This might be fixable by just having the command card always display a grayed out version of the unburrow button for all units.

Swarm Hosts are treated like any other unit, however since they can only attack when burrowed, like the Lurker, I think they should be treated in kind, meaning that burrowing all regular units excludes Lurkers AND SwarmHosts.

I will test more later, but I'm late for work now...

Overall, this is awesome to see. Thank you Blizzard for not being scared to change core mechanics
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
December 01 2015 16:46 GMT
#53
i got my spade what do you need digging up?
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
December 01 2015 16:57 GMT
#54
I do not understand? Where is the text about nydus, ravagers, parasitic bomb and ultralisk armour? Do I need to change my browser?
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
December 01 2015 17:00 GMT
#55
On December 02 2015 01:57 MockHamill wrote:
I do not understand? Where is the text about nydus, ravagers, parasitic bomb and ultralisk armour? Do I need to change my browser?


Can you explain this post to me?

I don't understand. Blizzard has a timeframe for when they want to pop the first balance patch. Should they not fix *anything* else until this time? Why is it bad for blizzard to try and improve their game outside of balance?
Cereal
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-01 17:04:51
December 01 2015 17:04 GMT
#56
This is amazing. I know it's not a huge balance change but it is an enormous quality of life change for zerg players. I haven't used the test map so I don't know if it works as intended, but if it works the same as terran I am all for it. I don't think all the complaining is warranted.

Gaining an extra hotkey is my opinion not a big deal - there are a lot of spare keys on the keyboard. The functionality improvements are really helpful though and definitely worth the drawbacks.

Dasian seems to have covered everything - I agree with him on all his points. The first bug he mentions should definitely be addressed. The second possible issue should be addressed too, if lurkers are treated separately so should swarmhosts because they both attack while burrowed. That's just a consistency thing.

I love the control click still only selecting burrowed units of that kind functionality. It retains the benefits of being able to manage burrowed units separately while improving everything else.
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
December 01 2015 17:41 GMT
#57
On December 02 2015 01:57 MockHamill wrote:
I do not understand? Where is the text about nydus, ravagers, parasitic bomb and ultralisk armour? Do I need to change my browser?



Just your attitude to the game and the other players in it
Archiatrus
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany64 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-01 20:43:30
December 01 2015 18:50 GMT
#58
Since I can not post in the Bnet forum. Maybe somebody reads it here.

Build a few lings, burrow some. Select all lings. Unburrow hotkey does not work. Clicking works fine. Does not happen with roaches. Can somebody confirm this?

Edit: Even though it showed a hotkey in the command card, it was unbound in the menu. Reassigning the hotkey solved the problem.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24238 Posts
December 01 2015 22:57 GMT
#59
On December 01 2015 10:53 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 07:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I think it's too hasty to call for balance action. Though I am indeed already sick of disruptors wars, both to play AND to watch.


Did you feel the same way about Colossi I hope?

No. Is it politically incorrect to say so ? I don't like volatility, not gonna lie about it. Colossi weren't perfect, but disruptors are just sickening.
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