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China6331 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18724765140
We've updated a new balance test map entitled "(2) TerraForm LE (2.1.12 Balance v1.0)" which include the following changes: Swarm Host- Supply cost decreased from 4 to 3.
- Cost changed from 100/200 to 200/100.
- Locust's flight no longer needs to be researched.
- Locust health down from 65 to 50.
You can find the map by clicking on Custom Games and then copy and pasting the title of the map in the search bar in the upper right of the screen. For information on the thinking behind these changes, read game designer David Kim's community update.
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If you can chose between ground and fly, great. If not, then a huge nerf.
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the cooldown is still too much
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On August 27 2015 20:41 Matt` wrote:
the cooldown is still too much
What's the locust time life now?
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Just like Snute said:
- 2 buttons, for ground and flying locusts
- faster speed for the flying locusts, their like slow thors and static D kills them to fast.
My opinion.
Consider giving SH a normal attack since they are useless for 60 sec.
On August 27 2015 21:04 deacon.frost wrote:What's the locust time life now?
25 sec
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Pls give zerg a solution that doesn't involve free units, this makes for terrible gameplay.
By the way, nothing indicates that mech is op against zerg. Winrates, tournament representation is all fine, mech has been beaten often.
If the terran is able to create a split map scenario with mass bc raven tank then yes he has won but zerg has the tools to "not let them get there"
Is it terrible gameplay? Yes. Imbalanced? I have seen nothing that shows that.
Mech in tvz needs a redesign, all a straight up buff for zerg does is making mech disappear from the pro scene...again. and we're back to bio mine vs ling bane muta 24/7.
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On August 27 2015 21:51 Charoisaur wrote:
Pls give zerg a solution that doesn't involve free units, this makes for terrible gameplay.
By the way, nothing indicates that mech is op against zerg. Winrates, tournament representation is all fine, mech has been beaten often.
If the terran is able to create a split map scenario with mass bc raven tank then yes he has won but zerg has the tools to "not let them get there"
Is it terrible gameplay? Yes. Imbalanced? I have seen nothing that shows that.
Mech in tvz needs a redesign, all a straight up buff for zerg does is making mech disappear from the pro scene...again. and we're back to bio mine vs ling bane muta 24/7.
Hmm, how about a hive upgrade to vipers - movement speed buff. So you can use them with mutas to harass with blinding cloud on turrets-thors? Is that bad idea, good idea? :-)
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On August 27 2015 21:51 Charoisaur wrote:
Pls give zerg a solution that doesn't involve free units, this makes for terrible gameplay.
By the way, nothing indicates that mech is op against zerg. Winrates, tournament representation is all fine, mech has been beaten often.
If the terran is able to create a split map scenario with mass bc raven tank then yes he has won but zerg has the tools to "not let them get there"
Is it terrible gameplay? Yes. Imbalanced? I have seen nothing that shows that.
Mech in tvz needs a redesign, all a straight up buff for zerg does is making mech disappear from the pro scene...again. and we're back to bio mine vs ling bane muta 24/7.
So we should let Mech Cancer stay in HotS just like we let BL/Infestor stay in WoL ?
Such great logic... good job man.
You hear this guys ? "dont let them get there" is balanced when its you're race that has that compostion.
PS. This change would also not stop mech in late game, it would be another timing of "dont let them get there"
Only LotV has the good answers, BL was buffed and PB is good vs air + Ravens where nerfed.
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Trying to make swarm hosts a thing again ? No thanks.
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On August 27 2015 22:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Trying to make swarm hosts a thing again ? No thanks.
the cooldown is still disgustingly long so I don't think it will play any close to the old SH, more like less sucky (actually good? the cost change looks good) version of current 1
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Cost change + no research + takes less supply -> base sniping is going to become far too easy. Some people say that the LotV SH is broken, I think this is overdoing it though probably a step in the right direction. I can take those changes if the locusts dps is slightly altered.
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Removing seeker missile or splitting upgrades would've been my choice. The problem isn't the mech composition, but the mass air transition that follows it.
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On August 27 2015 22:48 Absentia wrote:
Removing seeker missile or splitting upgrades would've been my choice. The problem isn't the mech composition, but the mass air transition that follows it.
Yeah splitting upgrades again would make so much more sense.
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On August 27 2015 22:19 DeepBurrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 21:51 Charoisaur wrote:
Pls give zerg a solution that doesn't involve free units, this makes for terrible gameplay.
By the way, nothing indicates that mech is op against zerg. Winrates, tournament representation is all fine, mech has been beaten often.
If the terran is able to create a split map scenario with mass bc raven tank then yes he has won but zerg has the tools to "not let them get there"
Is it terrible gameplay? Yes. Imbalanced? I have seen nothing that shows that.
Mech in tvz needs a redesign, all a straight up buff for zerg does is making mech disappear from the pro scene...again. and we're back to bio mine vs ling bane muta 24/7. So we should let Mech Cancer stay in HotS just like we let BL/Infestor stay in WoL ? Such great logic... good job man. You hear this guys ? "dont let them get there" is balanced when its you're race that has that compostion. PS. This change would also not stop mech in late game, it would be another timing of "dont let them get there" Only LotV has the good answers, BL was buffed and PB is good vs air + Ravens where nerfed.
You didn't even read the post past that, I agree with what he said simply buffing is not the solution, all blizz needs to do is make it harder to transition to mass air, mech is fine turtle mech is the problem.
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i said it in the lotv thread and ill say it here, this has huge potential to make zvp nexus sniping with SH really strong and possibly OP, mostly due to the cost amd supply change. imagine how much more roach hydra you can get out to defend the counterattack with twice the gas. zerg floats minerals easily in the midgame, this cost change is massive. and don't forget not researching the upgrade means it hits earlier, 4-8 more roach hydra and more resources to build emergency army if attacked while preparing a nexus snipe
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With the end of WCS/GSL/SS2L and Blizzcon arriving (and probably being the last HotS tourneys ever), nerfind turtle mech (by making air transitions harder, hence splitting upgrades again for instance) would have been a far less risky attempt. I know nothing is final blah blah blah but if their idea is pushing out SHs I think it's a potentially dangerous one.
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If they want to fix the problems just return the old swarm host. The new version is a thousand times shittier by concept and the only thing not making it ridiculously frustrating to play against is how bad it is.
Hands up who wants to play against free units with two times the dps of marines flying into your bases from any possible angle. 10swarm host deploying locusts is like having 40 free marines in your base, so much fun wow.
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On August 27 2015 23:04 brickrd wrote:
i said it in the lotv thread and ill say it here, this has huge potential to make zvp nexus sniping with SH really strong and possibly OP, mostly due to the cost amd supply change. imagine how much more roach hydra you can get out to defend the counterattack with twice the gas. zerg floats minerals easily in the midgame, this cost change is massive. and don't forget not researching the upgrade means it hits earlier, 4-8 more roach hydra and more resources to build emergency army if attacked while preparing a nexus snipe
That is a good change, cuz Zerg cant really punish a protoss now that goes for 2/2 blink... unless he all ins earlier then toss hiting his timing.
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On August 27 2015 23:04 brickrd wrote:
i said it in the lotv thread and ill say it here, this has huge potential to make zvp nexus sniping with SH really strong and possibly OP, mostly due to the cost amd supply change. imagine how much more roach hydra you can get out to defend the counterattack with twice the gas. zerg floats minerals easily in the midgame, this cost change is massive. and don't forget not researching the upgrade means it hits earlier, 4-8 more roach hydra and more resources to build emergency army if attacked while preparing a nexus snipe
I said it in my opinion on LotV, the LotV swarm host might very well be overpowered in LotV, but moreso I believe this could be the case in HotS with the cost reduction. Compare this swarm host to the old one:
nerfs:
--- locusts spawn time doubled
-- locust health nerfed by 15
- no more burrow
buffs:
++ locust dps +25%
++ locust fly
++ Movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.95
++ no more 200/200 upgrade for the +10second life time
+ doesn't need to burrow anymore to spawn locusts
+ Swarm Hosts no longer collide with Locusts
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On August 27 2015 23:15 DeepBurrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 23:04 brickrd wrote:
i said it in the lotv thread and ill say it here, this has huge potential to make zvp nexus sniping with SH really strong and possibly OP, mostly due to the cost amd supply change. imagine how much more roach hydra you can get out to defend the counterattack with twice the gas. zerg floats minerals easily in the midgame, this cost change is massive. and don't forget not researching the upgrade means it hits earlier, 4-8 more roach hydra and more resources to build emergency army if attacked while preparing a nexus snipe That is a good change, cuz Zerg cant really punish a protoss now that goes for 2/2 blink... unless he all ins earlier then toss hiting his timing.
zvp balance is fine, protoss might be very very marginally favored but not to a point that calls for a balance overhaul in the matchup. and allinning an economic build before its production kicks in is... generally how punishing is done. how else do you want to "punish" it? you either try to kill it or you play roach hydra viper and macro/micro better
it's a stable build, for sure, but the fact that protoss can reliably go up to a 3 base macro style and start building army isn't a problem for the matchup. giving zerg what could potentially be practically free nexus snipes 2:40 earlier than it was ever possible before is not a reasonable response to "protoss has a strong midgame style"
i'm not saying this 100% breaks zvp but i think there's a huge chance it will be a problem for protoss, and gimmick postbuff builds dictating matchup balance is not usually a good thing (hellbat drops anyone?)
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EPT
