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TheSandbox - Deliberate Practice Training Group

Forum Index > SC2 General
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1 2 3 Next All
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-06 20:46:24
June 22 2015 21:15 GMT
#1




What is TheSandbox?
TheSandbox is a non-exclusive practice group that focuses on a professional, holistic approach to training in Starcraft 2 through deliberate practice.


What is Deliberate Practice?
The term Deliberate Practice was popularized and in a way defined by the scholarly article “The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance” which is free to read and has been linked in the description of this video. For an easier read try Josh Waitzkin’s “The Art of Learning” which is not free but also linked in the description. Deliberate is, and has been utilized by the greatest experts in the world, from musicians and martial artists to athletes and teams in conventional sports, for decades.

In short, deliberate practice is the repetition of a particular task, done with as close to 100% mental focus and exertion as possible. Ideally, involving immediate, accurate, and measurable feedback. Focusing on specific aspects of play rather than mindless laddering, conditions the mind to be able to enter a competitive state of mind or ‘flow’ state much more consistently than ladder training can provide.

This is the reason why expert musicians don’t just play a piece in its entirety over and over again all day. It is the reason why football teams don’t constantly scrimmage every practice. Its the reason why professional players stick to one race. It is the reason why the advice sticking to a single build per matchup delivers as well as it does. It is the reason why the players who only play on the ladder on average get defeated by the players that train in a professional team house that makes use of deliberate practice.

Let’s say a Terran player will play 2100 games this year. Randomly practicing the 7 maps, 3 matchups, and 10 or so builds available to each player would mean that only once per year would that player run into a particular opponent build, versus their particular build, on a particular map, in a particular matchup. By the time that scenario comes around again next year it is very unlikely that the player will remember the adjustments they decided would be best to make. Creating a cycle where the player makes the same mistakes over and over again. This is commonly referred to as Plateauing.

Instead of laddering, we can practice deliberately, minimizing as many variables as possible and playing only one matchup, one map, and one strategy for each player in a day of practice. This allows us not only to learn from our mistakes, but to apply the solutions and adjustments in repetition so that they become automatic. When this scenario appears in competition the player who practiced deliberately will have a depth of strategy and mastery of execution that the ladder only player would take years to develop.


Coaches/Services/Tools
TheSandbox Coaching Staff is made up of experts from a wide variety of fields, including:
Strength and Conditioning
Posture and Ergonomics
Performance Psychology
Cognitive Science
Music
Martial Arts
Neuroscience
Attention and Multitasking
Structure and Regimentation
Replay Analysis and Statistics
Mechanics and Hotkeys

Watch the Coach Introduction Videos in TheSandbox Playlist to learn more.


Application Process
A big part of the success of TheSandbox is due to our extremely strict and refined recruitment and vetting process.

  1. To begin, applicants send an email to jakataktv@gmail.com with their answer to the question: How is Deliberate Practice more effective than ladder?
  2. Applicants who successfully demonstrate a minimum understanding of deliberate practice and an ability to communicate complex ideas in the english language are brought into The Proving Grounds skype group.
  3. In the Proving Grounds, players train and discuss Starcraft with each other while the Coaching Staff monitor, moderate, and occasionally offer constructive feedback to help each player reach the minimum standards required to be accepted into TheSandbox.
  4. Once accepted into TheSandbox the player will leave The Proving Grounds and gain full access to all the coaches, analysis, and in-House training events and workshops that are a part of TheSandbox.


Sandboxers:
commit to Deliberate Practice
mutually seek truth in discussion
respect all people and cultures
invest in loss
are open to change
take responsibility for their losses
accept what is outside their sphere of influence

Sandboxers do not:
ignore or react defensively to criticism
care about being right or wrong in an argument
blame coin flips, build order losses, david kim, balance or other scapegoats for their losses
speak in absolutes
judge ideas by the League of their author
feel entitled to improvement or attention
act superior toward others for any reason (including but not limited to their in-game League).


FAQ




What is TheSandbox?

Mission
TheSandbox is an organization that applies proven practices of traditional sports to the training of Starcraft.

Vision
All players of Starcraft have access to the resources necessary for them improve themselves physically as well as mentally in the most optimal way possible.

Target Group
Starcraft 2 Players that have a desire to take a professional approach to Starcraft.

How do I apply to join TheSandbox?
Send an email to jakataktv@gmail.com with your answer to the question “How is Deliberate Practice more effective than ladder?”

What are the minimum requirements for joining TheSandbox?
A basic understanding of Deliberate Practice
A mastery of the English Language
A minimum of once per week commitment to Deliberate Practice

Do I have to leave my clan to join TheSandbox?
Absolutely not. TheSandbox is a not a clan or a team, we do not require your allegiance, only your constructive attitude and commitment to deliberate practice.

Is there a minimum amount of time per week required to join/remain in TheSandbox?
You are expected to practice deliberately at least one time per week (aside from vacations etc)

Is there a League requirement?
Nope. There are sandboxers are in every league. It’s about attitude, not in-game skill.

Is this AM server only?
Nope. This is an English speaking training group, as long as you can communicate complex ideas in English the place you sit down to play Starcraft and the server you connect to are up to you.

Are TheSandbox applications competitive/ Are there a limited number of slots?
Nope. Everyone that meets the minimum requirements will be admitted into TheSandbox.

How long does it take to get accepted into TheSandbox?
I can be as fast as 1 day, as long as never. The factors that determine this are 100% within your control. Don’t know about deliberate practice? Google it, do research, read articles and books, watch videos. Don’t have strong communications skills in English, train them and practice them with deliberate practice. Act like you are entitled to be in TheSandbox because you are GM and you think that you’re better than everyone else? Knock it the fuck off.

If I fail my application, can I reapply?
Absolutely. We strongly encourage players not yet at the minimum requirements necessary to move into The Proving Grounds to reapply after doing some work to improve the areas in which they are currently below parity.

Why is it called “TheSandbox”?
TheSandbox is a metaphor. Left unused a sandbox is a glorified outdoor litterbox for stray cats. Used incorrectly it is a bunch of kids sitting around eating sand. But, when someone uses all the resources provided within a sandbox, and puts in the time and effort required, amazing creations can result. In the same way, TheSandbox is nothing without the players inside it. It doesn’t guarantee improvement, because not all Sandboxers will make use of the tools available to them. What it does provide is guidance and a very tangible path of mastery for those who enter with open minds, and a strong work ethic.



Meet The Coaches




Austin "Neuro" Filsinger - Cognitive Science, Neuroscience, Mentality, Zerg Sandboxer Captain



JaKaTaK - Mechanics, Hotkeys Settings




Robert Yip - Strength and Conditioning, Performance Psychology, Structure and Regimentation





Brandon "Synastren" Bailey - Cognitive Science, Attention and Multi-tasking, Information Processing





Felipe "Bombs" Malta Prado - Terran Sandboxer Captain




David "Gowerly" Gower - Replay Analysis and Statistics



Scott "Deadzerg" Ross-Molyneux - Protoss Sandboxer Captain



Frank Maas - Ergonmics




Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
ThorPool
Profile Joined February 2014
Panama145 Posts
June 22 2015 21:21 GMT
#2
Awesome ! Eliminating the randomness of ladder to improve every day a bit more ! Nice iniciative i I wish you guys GOOD LUCK and Have fun :D
RuFF! Let the cheese rain !
Alchemik
Profile Joined March 2014
Poland7124 Posts
June 22 2015 21:35 GMT
#3
this is pretty amazing
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
June 22 2015 22:02 GMT
#4
This is seriously cool. Let me check with the guys I play with if anyone is interested in this...
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
-StrifeX-
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States529 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-22 22:53:46
June 22 2015 22:52 GMT
#5
I'm just curious what an Expert of music role can play in this...I mean some can point towards studies of saying people listen to classical tend to be on the highly intelligent scale on average, but it seems if you look at past pro gamers there is a wide variety of different music they listen to. I'm guessing K-Pop is the way to go on this one?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 22 2015 22:59 GMT
#6
I would say your suggestion falls into the expertise of one of our cognitive scientists rather than music experts. Learning music is almost exactly like learning Starcraft. The tricks and learning strategies utilized by musicians can be applied to Starcraft very easily. We also share a lot of the same injuries, RSI etc.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
June 22 2015 23:43 GMT
#7
i sent an email please get back to me jakatak i'm so excited man ! <3
-StrifeX-
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States529 Posts
June 22 2015 23:43 GMT
#8
I asked this question just because I'm from musical background myself. I play several instruments and been in several bands in the past, but I never related or considered any of the instruments that I have learn through out my life to be like playing StarCraft 2 or to help me learn StarCraft 2 any better.... I mean only thing remotely close that some might can consider is learning to play piano/keyboard to typing on a PC keyboard, but even then a person who plays piano well and types well will tell you that the techniques are very different for both.

Learning any craft / profession / hobby can all be related to each other though, so it can't be that we all know it takes hard work, practice, and determination to want to excel and get better at anything we do. the amount of effort that we put in for the 3 shows in our results in the future. sure someone can sit and play 100,000 games and be worse than someone who played only 1,000...we all know it's possible, but I honestly can't say the person who played 100,000 games didn't have a chance to be better than the person who played only 1,000, he just didn't put as much effort into learning / trying to get better off each game as the person with 1,000 games did. (this excluding someone who might have much more experience with a keyboard, mouse, or past gaming experience over the other player). I know someone will bring this up haha, but them things do carry over to any RTS PC game.

Rest of the list I can see being helpful or might can provide some kind of aspect to look from differently. Music experts (musicians i'm guessing?) I don't see much benefit if any to an SC2 player. I agree some injuries might can be the same depending on what instruments they play, but you can just bring in a career/professional typist for that. I honestly thought it would be based more around what studies have shown in relation to peoples personalities to the genre of music they prefer to listen to.

this is just my thought but it would be interesting to see if anyone can find anything helpful from it. I never considered it to be any benefit. I consider what I do at work more of benefit than playing any of the instruments that I have learned.
Ignorant prodigy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States385 Posts
June 23 2015 00:18 GMT
#9
correct me if I'm wrong.. but it's about the 'process' and approach of learning the instrument... not so much about the physical correlation
http://www.twitch.tv/ignorantprodigy playing masters random with no hotkeys......big pimpin'
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 23 2015 02:22 GMT
#10
^
Its about the mind more than its about the hands.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-23 02:30:44
June 23 2015 02:30 GMT
#11
On June 23 2015 11:22 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote:
^
Its about the mind more than its about the hands.

Which is why herO is one of the best players with very little APM. ^.^

Edit: And consistent.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
Maniak_
Profile Joined October 2010
France305 Posts
June 23 2015 02:50 GMT
#12
Scream at me if I sound like I'm shitting on anything (because I'm really not, love what you're doing, and just like on reddit, hoping that you get in direct contact with the Blizzard devs for LotV ), but is that the first TL topic about the sandbox?

I'm not the most attentive follower, be it on TL or (even less) on Reddit, but I feel like I've heard of this via your appearances on The Late Game (probably Remax too?) and liked the sound of it a lot, but never saw anything advertising it anywhere else.
Granted I'm not watching much of anything on YT, so maybe that's where it's at. But in that case... not for everyone

So basically my question would be: is this the start of a 'real' advertising campaign for the sandbox (which would be great) or have I been missing a source of info somewhere?

That's just an actual wondering I've had after hearing you talk about it in the aforementioned talk shows. It sounds *really* great, so why isn't this more talked about?


As for me, on one side I'd love to send my application (I've learned piano/drums a *long* time ago with a focus on deliberate practice without knowing the name at the time so I know how good it is compared to mindless laddering, and I'm also applying it in my actual job), but on the other side, my lack of spoken english + agoraphobia makes me feel like I wouldn't fit. That and my apparent love for long parentheses. That's probably stupid but let's chalk it up to shyness

If you have any advice for people who are basically panicking at the idea of having to actually communicate with people (hoping they're not assholes which is not what my past experiences point me to) to work on their SC2 (and by SC2 I mean social skills and staying calm and positive in the face of... well... self-fuck ups basically), I'd love to hear it.
"They make psychiatrists get psychoanalyzed before they can get certified, but they don't make a surgeon get cut on. Does that seem right to you?" -- Jubal Early - Firefly
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16694 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-23 03:13:23
June 23 2015 03:12 GMT
#13
On June 23 2015 06:15 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote:
Sandboxers:
commit to Deliberate Practice
mutually seek truth in discussion
respect all people and cultures
invest in loss
are open to change
take responsibility for their losses
accept what is outside their sphere of influence


grrr ( guillaume patry ) was once asked what his non-event win-loss record was for 1 of the years he was champion.

he said "749-750"
he was then asked "is it frustrating to have such an even won-loss record?"

he replied "this shows my practise time was useful. if i had a fantastic win-loss record then my practise time was just a waste".
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
UncleVinny
Profile Joined April 2011
United States35 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-23 04:07:37
June 23 2015 04:07 GMT
#14
The download link for the Ericsson paper didn't work for me, but this one from the NYTimes loads fine.
<3 Sheth
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
June 23 2015 14:06 GMT
#15
Applied. Let's do this.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 23 2015 14:17 GMT
#16
On June 23 2015 07:52 -StrifeX- wrote:
I'm just curious what an Expert of music role can play in this...I mean some can point towards studies of saying people listen to classical tend to be on the highly intelligent scale on average, but it seems if you look at past pro gamers there is a wide variety of different music they listen to. I'm guessing K-Pop is the way to go on this one?

Also a wrong music can break your concentration. Usually music with human voices or with a sounds like a human voices. It depends on the required level of concentration though. I play without any music and I play about 25 % better than with music.

I personally won't join the group, I love the idea, I know it from TLG, but this isn't for me. I want to play the game in my free time, I don't care about my skill, I am as good as I want to be
(also I don't want to invest into losses, I want to win )

But all the best for "Sandmans"!
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Pain411
Profile Joined June 2015
Germany9 Posts
June 23 2015 15:57 GMT
#17
I will defenitely take part at that programm! *interested*

I am encouraged in getting better in starcraft in particullar situations and dont care about loseing or winning.
In the past I have had the ladder anxiety because i just cared too much about winning or loseing and not about
the game understanding and the experience I can get even and almost only if I lose.

Although I will applie as soon as I am home from my holidays and I hope (and think)
I have the right mindset for the Sandbox and the deliberate practice I can get from the programm.

"Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
Bojas
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2397 Posts
June 23 2015 16:14 GMT
#18
I think it's very interesting. As a SC2 player I've never been a fan of 1v1 ladder, I do most of my practicing in CGs. I'd like to join, but like many (most?) others I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the concept of deliberate practice, so I doubt I could be of much use within the group.

Will there be any transparency to the general public about the ideas discussed within this group? That way everyone can learn from the ideas discussed within the group, especially from the coaching staff. I imagine the goal is to improve the method of practicing, you don't have to be a part of the group to learn from the group, if you could just read some of the inside-information of the group.
loft
Profile Joined July 2009
United States344 Posts
June 23 2015 16:49 GMT
#19
Deliberate practice is what you get when you're in a team. Many people aren't and I really respect these guys for trying to share the team aspect of SC2. Great video and idea.
Pain411
Profile Joined June 2015
Germany9 Posts
June 23 2015 17:15 GMT
#20
I have a few questions:
Is there a maximum of players able to join into TheSandbox?
Is there going to be a inGame clan in near future?
Which objectives do I have to reach to leave the proving grounds and join TheSandbox?
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
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