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On June 13 2015 17:28 Cascade wrote:These 25 pages have really been the same few arguments repeated over and over and over. It usually is in long threads, but this thread has been a bit particularly repetitive I think. So instead of posting, just scroll back a few pages (or go to a random page) and you will see people saying exactly the same thing you are about to type, and other people replying to it, as well as questioning the intellectual integrity of other posters.  The arguments seem to be roughly "They are a private company, they can do what they want." "Everyone else have free HQ, so GOM should too." "This is bad business for GOM, they will lose all the viewers and get no new subs" "GOM knows their business better than [opposing poster] does" "The Koreans get HQ for free" "x$ isn't that much, get over it" "They don't treat their customers well" "Free viewers are not customers" I think each of these have been repeated and in turn ridiculed many times in this thread, so feel free to go back and see why people didn't like the comment you are about to write before you (yes, you there at the keyboard. I see you. No, hiding under the desk wont help. That's right, come back out. Yes, you.) post it in the 7:th iteration.  Other things also mentioned several times, as if they had a meaningful contribution to the discussion: "Entitled freeloading brats" "Greedy GOM bastards" "What are you stupid?" "You don't know what you are talking about" "lol" "hahaha"
You forgot green is better than blue, and vice versa
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How much money does people think Proleague and SSL for foreigners actually generate in income?
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wouldn't be the first time gom flips us the finger.
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On June 12 2015 19:03 True_Spike wrote:
[...] it's 2015, not 2010. [...]
What does this mean?
Public tv channels in HD were free in 2008 (now 60€ yearly). Sky football for watching german bundesliga, HD thing was free for few years some years ago (now 5€ monthly).
Few yearso ago, HD was free in everything (acted like a nice addition to SD) and now nowhere for free (SD is still free in everything).
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On June 13 2015 20:37 Dingodile wrote:What does this mean? Public tv channels in HD were free in 2008 (now 60€ yearly). Sky football for watching german bundesliga, HD thing was free for few years some years ago (now 5€ monthly). Few yearso ago, HD was free in everything (acted like a nice addition to SD) and now nowhere for free (SD is still free in everything).
in esports it is
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On June 13 2015 22:00 PBateman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 20:37 Dingodile wrote:On June 12 2015 19:03 True_Spike wrote:
[...] it's 2015, not 2010. [...]
What does this mean? Public tv channels in HD were free in 2008 (now 60€ yearly). Sky football for watching german bundesliga, HD thing was free for few years some years ago (now 5€ monthly). Few yearso ago, HD was free in everything (acted like a nice addition to SD) and now nowhere for free (SD is still free in everything). in esports it is
No. No Tournament except Dreamhack offers [source] for free.
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On June 14 2015 00:26 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 22:00 PBateman wrote:On June 13 2015 20:37 Dingodile wrote:On June 12 2015 19:03 True_Spike wrote:
[...] it's 2015, not 2010. [...]
What does this mean? Public tv channels in HD were free in 2008 (now 60€ yearly). Sky football for watching german bundesliga, HD thing was free for few years some years ago (now 5€ monthly). Few yearso ago, HD was free in everything (acted like a nice addition to SD) and now nowhere for free (SD is still free in everything). in esports it is No. No Tournament except Dreamhack offers [source] for free.
WCS, Gfinity, SSL, SPL ( on AZUBU but still ), NationWars too.
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And lots of smaller amateur tournaments too offers in HD. (thinking the german/french and generally EU scene, BTTV and such...)
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This won't do anything but hurt them. How are they going to entice new subscribers when anyone who tunes in to watch a match sees nothing but a pixellated mess?
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As I've said few times before in other threads:
I am subbed to SPL, can't afford to sub to every single SC2 channel because I am poor. Trying my best to support the scene but at least make other streams watchable T_T
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I'm just going to stick to watching the VODs on YouTube. I'd be much more inclined to sub EsportsTV for the SSL and Proleague, because they publish the VODs on the same day. Mad props for that. However I agree with most people, looking at pixelated blobs in low quality isn't all that fun. Even medium wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
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This decision was made because we believe it’s better to have GSL than not to.
epic. i lold pretty hard, would lol again 10/10
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On June 10 2015 15:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
lol kiss my tush you greedy frickers.
I don't think that's fair. I'm not involved in production, but I'm going to hazard a guess that the actual production of these high quality tournaments is not at all cheap. In fact I'm surprised they can break even, even with subs.
Also, it seems that my new account cannot create threads yet so I'll ask here, are there any plans to release the VoDs of Ro16 on youtube, like they uploaded Ro32?
Even if I had to subscribe to their twitch channel to watch them that'd be fine (or sub on youtube if you can). I am in serious need of a good SC2 fix as of late, there's nothing to watch now.
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On June 12 2015 21:10 isparavanje wrote:
So I'm guessing everyone in this thread is a MBA and knows GomTV's business model better than them...?
I know right, I mean you've got be a finely educated professional with lots of experience to understand how to start a successful business or how to create a good product.
Which is why I'm scratching my head trying to understand how Richard Branson made it so big after dropping out of high school. I mean if a high school dropout can become a billionaire... maybe we should judge people on their ideas rather than letters after their name?
Nah, that's foolish!
Right?
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On June 10 2015 16:45 Cascade wrote:
I feel it's fair. If you don't pay, why do people feel so entitled to HQ stream? >_>
They try their best to earn money of their product, and they seem to think that they will earn more from the paying viewers than they will lose on advertisement from the leaving non-paying viewers. With ad-block and all, I really don't think a free viewer is worth much more than what they pay for the bandwidth. I think a paying viewer is worth a lot of free viewers at least, especially if you subtract the bandwidth costs, so even if they lose 100 free viewers for every new subscriber, I think they will gain from the switch.
"But all the other tournaments are free!"
Yeah, maybe they don't have the attraction to get many paying viewers. As a few posters have said, GSL is the most prestigious tournament (or so many think), so many people are ready to pay to see it, even with other "lesser" tournaments available for free. Which is why this move is an option for GSL, but probably not viable for any other tournament, as very few would actually pay for it. It's not a matter of the other tournaments being nice and passionate about SC2, it's just not a good move for them to shut out free views.
Precisely.
The sense of entitlement here is beyond belief. I am truly disappointed in my own species right now. With the amount of free viewers they have, you're correct. Free viewers probably cost them more than they earn from ads. Subscription is the only way. Ad-block is a large contributor to this, but you can't prevent it. People think they deserve access to high production quality content in HD free of charge.
It's depressing. People don't see how incredibly immoral that is.
I just wish they offered those videos on youtube, I loathe the twitch player and their vod system is terrible.
On June 10 2015 16:50 TheWinks wrote:
When selling a product, make that product look as awful as possible and more people will buy it!
I subscribed to almost every season until the nightmare that was the switch to twitch and likely won't do it again at this rate.
No, make the completely free version low quality so people will be more tempted to actually pay for the content they consume.
Utter madness isn't it?
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On June 13 2015 14:26 partydude89 wrote:Hey, just saying that GSL actually now has a pretty good page for viewing vods, that they posted to their twitter a few days ago. Just thought i'd let people know, as it's actually pretty nice and neat so far. http://wiki.gomexp.com/index.php/Records
This vod page is so good. Isn't that all the matches? and in HD too...
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If they want to be profitable, the answer is make a better product, not cut cost at the expense of all of your viewers  seems like they just don't care about sc2 anymore...
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On June 14 2015 05:24 UnknownVX wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 16:45 Cascade wrote:
I feel it's fair. If you don't pay, why do people feel so entitled to HQ stream? >_>
They try their best to earn money of their product, and they seem to think that they will earn more from the paying viewers than they will lose on advertisement from the leaving non-paying viewers. With ad-block and all, I really don't think a free viewer is worth much more than what they pay for the bandwidth. I think a paying viewer is worth a lot of free viewers at least, especially if you subtract the bandwidth costs, so even if they lose 100 free viewers for every new subscriber, I think they will gain from the switch.
"But all the other tournaments are free!"
Yeah, maybe they don't have the attraction to get many paying viewers. As a few posters have said, GSL is the most prestigious tournament (or so many think), so many people are ready to pay to see it, even with other "lesser" tournaments available for free. Which is why this move is an option for GSL, but probably not viable for any other tournament, as very few would actually pay for it. It's not a matter of the other tournaments being nice and passionate about SC2, it's just not a good move for them to shut out free views. Precisely. The sense of entitlement here is beyond belief. I am truly disappointed in my own species right now. With the amount of free viewers they have, you're correct. Free viewers probably cost them more than they earn from ads. Subscription is the only way. Ad-block is a large contributor to this, but you can't prevent it. People think they deserve access to high production quality content in HD free of charge. It's depressing. People don't see how incredibly immoral that is. I just wish they offered those videos on youtube, I loathe the twitch player and their vod system is terrible. Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 16:50 TheWinks wrote:
When selling a product, make that product look as awful as possible and more people will buy it!
I subscribed to almost every season until the nightmare that was the switch to twitch and likely won't do it again at this rate. No, make the completely free version low quality so people will be more tempted to actually pay for the content they consume. Utter madness isn't it?
It's not so much entitlement as it is the fact that every person with a half-decent gaming PC and internet connection can stream to Twitch in 720p. This is not 2010 anymore, when those tools were still relatively rudimentary.
To play the devil's advocate, why would a low-quality stream tempt viewers to subscribe? For all I know it could mean that the GOM is just too incompetent to set up a stream with better quality (considering GOM's history I can't blame those people).
The following two things are also pretty much facts of life:
1) people like free stuff, and once something free has been given they will not take kindly to seeing that being taken away
2) people hate advertisements, and the mere existence of adblock means that the Internet has gone too far in drowning people in them. The Internet with adblock is a completely different place compared to the internet without adblock.
I use adblock, and have been for the past five or seven years. I cannot stand advertisements (it's the biggest reason why I don't watch TV at all anymore). I do subscribe to websites that provide useful, in-depth content on the stuff I really care about, but that's usually not entertainment.
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On June 14 2015 18:25 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:24 UnknownVX wrote:On June 10 2015 16:45 Cascade wrote:
I feel it's fair. If you don't pay, why do people feel so entitled to HQ stream? >_>
They try their best to earn money of their product, and they seem to think that they will earn more from the paying viewers than they will lose on advertisement from the leaving non-paying viewers. With ad-block and all, I really don't think a free viewer is worth much more than what they pay for the bandwidth. I think a paying viewer is worth a lot of free viewers at least, especially if you subtract the bandwidth costs, so even if they lose 100 free viewers for every new subscriber, I think they will gain from the switch.
"But all the other tournaments are free!"
Yeah, maybe they don't have the attraction to get many paying viewers. As a few posters have said, GSL is the most prestigious tournament (or so many think), so many people are ready to pay to see it, even with other "lesser" tournaments available for free. Which is why this move is an option for GSL, but probably not viable for any other tournament, as very few would actually pay for it. It's not a matter of the other tournaments being nice and passionate about SC2, it's just not a good move for them to shut out free views. Precisely. The sense of entitlement here is beyond belief. I am truly disappointed in my own species right now. With the amount of free viewers they have, you're correct. Free viewers probably cost them more than they earn from ads. Subscription is the only way. Ad-block is a large contributor to this, but you can't prevent it. People think they deserve access to high production quality content in HD free of charge. It's depressing. People don't see how incredibly immoral that is. I just wish they offered those videos on youtube, I loathe the twitch player and their vod system is terrible. On June 10 2015 16:50 TheWinks wrote:
When selling a product, make that product look as awful as possible and more people will buy it!
I subscribed to almost every season until the nightmare that was the switch to twitch and likely won't do it again at this rate. No, make the completely free version low quality so people will be more tempted to actually pay for the content they consume. Utter madness isn't it? It's not so much entitlement as it is the fact that every person with a half-decent gaming PC and internet connection can stream to Twitch in 720p. This is not 2010 anymore, when those tools were still relatively rudimentary. To play the devil's advocate, why would a low-quality stream tempt viewers to subscribe? For all I know it could mean that the GOM is just too incompetent to set up a stream with better quality (considering GOM's history I can't blame those people). The following two things are also pretty much facts of life: 1) people like free stuff, and once something free has been given they will not take kindly to seeing that being taken away 2) people hate advertisements, and the mere existence of adblock means that the Internet has gone too far in drowning people in them. The Internet with adblock is a completely different place compared to the internet without adblock. I use adblock, and have been for the past five or seven years. I cannot stand advertisements (it's the biggest reason why I don't watch TV at all anymore). I do subscribe to websites that provide useful, in-depth content on the stuff I really care about, but that's usually not entertainment.
I don't use adblock. Only Korean SC2 broadcasts tempt me sometimes to use it (because of the silly bombardments). Actually, because of Azubu, it's just the GSL haha. But I never give in, just mute. For the SpotTV content I oftentimes have the Twitch stream open as well, muted, so they get ad revenue.
The sites I visit usually don't spam ads and I want them to get income from somewhere.
On June 14 2015 19:11 Caladan wrote:
Who cares anymore, really?
I haven't watched GOM in a long time and this will for sure keep me from doing it again in the foreseeable future.
This isn't 2010 anymore. In every aspect.
SC2's future lies somewhere else, in community-organized, crowdfunded or non-profit fun events.
Last GSL broadcast about 15k people were watching so there's them.
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Who cares anymore, really?
I haven't watched GOM in a long time and this will for sure keep me from doing it again in the foreseeable future.
This isn't 2010 anymore. In every aspect.
SC2's future lies somewhere else, in community-organized, crowdfunded or non-profit fun events.
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EPT
