EPTBut hey at least he admitted to preconceived bias right at the outset; "It seemed like the confirmation I'd been expecting".
BBC 'Scars of Korean Gaming' - Page 4
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
But hey at least he admitted to preconceived bias right at the outset; "It seemed like the confirmation I'd been expecting". | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On June 06 2015 21:46 FeyFey wrote: It is a good comparison, because those sports would look exactly like this if there wouldn't be as much money to allow regulations that are made to protect their players/athletes. Also you are talking about those that made it. Those that doesn't usually have a bad education and took crippling damage to their body at around 18-26~. Once you make it pro you get the best healthcare there is, but before you are on your own. Correlation doesn't mean causation. Just because players retire in their 20s, doesn't mean it is because of "crippling body damage." What a coincidence that in Korea, the country with the biggest amount of salaried players, there is among the longest mandatory military service. And as Tastosis tell us all the time, nobody comes back from that. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On June 06 2015 21:29 maartendq wrote: I don't think the comparison with athletes is a good ones. Even though their careers are short, professional athletes don't retire before they are nearing fourty, while most progamers barely make it to the 25-year-old mark. Additionally, the latter usually sacrifice their education just to try to get into the progaming scene, a scene that can not yet provice stable salaries for the majority of the players. Look at Boxer: went from being a star to being a professional gambler. I have a lot of respect for players like Stephano and Thorzain who quit and used their earnings to fund their entry into university before they became too old to enter the job market. Yeah but this is only recent when you look at it. Not so long ago, in swimming competitions, you were pretty much done at 21. Matt Biondi who was a true legend retired at 23. I think Alexander Popov was the first one to win something at 25+ years old which was unheard of at the time. And even today, if you're not Phelps, you really have nothing in your hands when you retire even if you were a top 20 world swimmer. I'm not even talking about ice skating or gynmastics here. What comes after retirement is also very hard in "normal" sports, how many mental breakdowns? how many drug addictions? how many suicides? you really think no ex-pro footballers are runing their lives trying to become poker champions? It is indeed very similar to me. | ||
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Symbioth
Poland103 Posts
On June 07 2015 13:18 BronzeKnee wrote: I was kind enough to send him an email, warning him that were other sports... sports where people used their entire bodies, and suffered far worse injuries. I warned him there is a even a sport where people punch each other in the face for entertainment. I also told him that while the top SC2 players may stay up late at night and that seems like a serious problem, Michael Jordan used to stay up late at night in the gym in his quest to become the best. I prayed that he doesn't stay up too late one night writing an article, as that'd surely be a sign of a problem, not dedication to his job. Because going above and beyond like Flash and Michael Jordan did, and then becoming the best is surely a problem. Or that could be why I've never heard of David Lee, because he isn't the best at what he does. If you guys also want to pass along advice to him, his email is: dave.lee@bbc.co.uk This is an excellent summary of the misinformation and false conclusions contained in this article. The whole piece is pure prejudice and little more. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On June 06 2015 15:52 Pontius Pirate wrote: What a shitty article. Fuck you, BBC. Now I'm worried about the quality of their reporting in other fields. Maybe it's just as bad, but I don't realize it, since I've never been to Syria, nor understand the intricacies of the struggle in Darfur, or have a firm grasp of the inside view of Venezuelan economics. You should never take anything from any news site as complete truth. Learn about topics from multiple locations and form your own truth. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8194 Posts
As for hardcore gaming being a problem in particular in South Korea, one must be in serious denial not to acknowledge there is a part of truth. And yes, the same could be said about other activities when they become a compulsive escape from reality (I'm not really talking about pro-gamers themselves). Some gaming is totally fine, even a lot of gaming can be totally fine, but your whole youth in front of a computer screen playing Starcraft or LoL instead of acquiring an education, social skill, etc, is not. And from what I know, gaming addiction (usually coupled with severe depression) has basically become a condition in the Far East. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On June 08 2015 18:42 Biff The Understudy wrote: I think the article was quite good. Of course having followed the scene much more closely, we can find it a bit shallow. As for hardcore gaming being a problem in particular in South Korea, one must be in serious denial not to acknowledge there is a part of truth. And yes, the same could be said about other activities when they become a compulsive escape from reality (I'm not really talking about pro-gamers themselves). Some gaming is totally fine, even a lot of gaming can be totally fine, but your whole youth in front of a computer screen playing Starcraft or LoL instead of acquiring an education, social skill, etc, is not. And from what I know, gaming addiction (usually coupled with severe depression) has basically become a condition in the Far East. I think you don't know what education looks like in south Korea. A lot of troubles comes from the fact that they receive too much education, youth in S. Korea have some hard time, Ministry of Education even tried to pass a law to forbid private course to teach more than the actual school program to stop pressure on the youth, but parents still try to put more and more pressure, cause it's how the system works and how people perceive education in South Korea. I've seen with my own eyes 12 years old kids in uniforms getting out of their school at 11pm. Got friends that were teaching private course to 10 years old kids at 7 am so they had 2 extra hours of working before going to the shcool. 15-16 hours is not something rare. As a result, if they have the best results in high school worldwide, Korean are bad when it comes to the university level, because at 20 years old, students are burn out, none of them wants to go for research and they have no curiosity for what they are taught in general. I believe the current Korean government put this issue on top of their concerns, dunno if it'll change quick though. "Gaming addiction drawing kids off education" just does not reflect reality in S Korea. If anything, gaming is more an escape route for a very high pressure system. Read for example : this NYT article that explain things better than me | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On June 08 2015 19:56 Gwavajuice wrote: I think you don't know what education looks like in south Korea. A lot of troubles comes from the fact that they receive too much education, youth in S. Korea have some hard time, Ministry of Education even tried to pass a law to forbid private course to teach more than the actual school program to stop pressure on the youth, but parents still try to put more and more pressure, cause it's how the system works and how people perceive education in South Korea. I've seen with my own eyes 12 years old kids in uniforms getting out of their school at 11pm. Got friends that were teaching private course to 10 years old kids at 7 am so they had 2 extra hours of working before going to the shcool. 15-16 hours is not something rare. As a result, if they have the best results in high school worldwide, Korean are bad when it comes to the university level, because at 20 years old, students are burn out, none of them wants to go for research and they have no curiosity for what they are taught in general. I believe the current Korean government put this issue on top of their concerns, dunno if it'll change quick though. "Gaming addiction drawing kids off education" just does not reflect reality in S Korea. If anything, gaming is more an escape route for a very high pressure system. Read for example : this NYT article that explain things better than me The korean society is hyper competitive. Its not only about education, but also beauty, money and generel every field you will find, so also computer games. I dont think in Europe or US you will find any field, were the competition between members of the society is bigger then S.K. And due to the fact, that knowledge and education are seen as key elements of private succes, parents push their children very hard. But also the children push themselfs for succes over the other, either by learning more or in other fields. And if you want to be the best in your local PC Bang, you go alot of hours straight into it. Its not a real PC Gaming addiction, its more a addicition to be the best in one field at least, to feel success. I dont know a country where more people (male and female) do more plastic surgery then S.K., it is not compareable to more cooperative societys. That shall not mean Ks are egomaniacs or something, it is just the build up of their society to competete with other, the wish to be on top and the will to work very hard for it and spend less time for your own good. For the hurting damage of Esport: Every professional athlet will abuse his body. Footballers and Ice-Hockey Defensive players have alot of brain damage problems related to alot of concussions, they gain during their sport. Runners ruin their knees to certain degree, soccerplayers alot of body parts during the game, faces due to elbow hits, knees during the game and all other kind of body parts. U.S. often makes fun of soccer being a sport of pussys and they roll over the field all day every day, but serious injurys happen there also. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On June 08 2015 15:31 TRaFFiC wrote: What a coincidence that in Korea, the country with the biggest amount of salaried players, there is among the longest mandatory military service. And as Tastosis tell us all the time, nobody comes back from that. Stardust did. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1483 Posts
Thats smoking kills and its still legal? That alcohol is more dangerous than weed? How about we talk on how working 8 hours a day in ANY job is as bad for you? (eyes if you use computer, back if you lift heavy things/sit all day, you know, things like that). How about we make some news about how Taxes are always increasing and the politicians can take the money and do nothing? Oh right, I forgot, its BBC. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On June 08 2015 22:52 iloveav wrote: And nobody noticed that proffesional athletes are destroying their bodies as well? Thats smoking kills and its still legal? That alcohol is more dangerous than weed? How about we talk on how working 8 hours a day in ANY job is as bad for you? (eyes if you use computer, back if you lift heavy things/sit all day, you know, things like that). How about we make some news about how Taxes are always increasing and the politicians can take the money and do nothing? Oh right, I forgot, its BBC. I think I'm maybe the second or third person here who's noticed that the people on this forum making the types of comments shown above are basically attacking a strawman. I don't see any point in the article in which the author professed that professional sports are a healthy alternative, or that the problem is only with esports. Or anything concerning alcohol, drugs, or overworking yourself in any other career. Everyone here has correctly argued that there are many problems, if not much more severe problems, with traditional sports. Okay...but how does that invalidate any of the points made against pro-gaming? These are not mutually exclusive truths. As it stands it probably does screw over a lot of people who believe they will be the best, only to realize the competition is a lot rougher than they thought, and they end up spending most of their youth making a mediocre amount of money and coming out virtually unemployable, which ends up with them playing professional poker. This is clearly not a desirable place to be. I'm not sure there's anything that we can do about it, or whether there is anything we should do. At the end of the day you have to respect people's rights to follow their passion, be it in esports of professional sports. Edit: The author *did* make an over-generalization at the beginning of the article but he quickly changed his mind: But Mr Kang sees it very differently. They're athletes, he argues, and injuries happen. One of his colleagues later suggested that if I'd been interviewing the world's most-decorated marathon champion, I wouldn't be surprised if they had damaged knees...He had a point. Later on he just talks about the impact of gaming and addictions on Korean society in general - so he's not referring to esports directly anymore (at least it doesn't seem like it). | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On June 08 2015 23:56 radscorpion9 wrote: As it stands it probably does screw over a lot of people who believe they will be the best, only to realize the competition is a lot rougher than they thought, and they end up spending most of their youth making a mediocre amount of money and coming out virtually unemployable, which ends up with them playing professional poker. This is clearly not a desirable place to be. I'm not entirely sure the author made this argument, unless I missed it. The article screams preconceived bias from the start and his reasoning with respect to SC2 pro-gaming amounts to "OMG gamers playing a lot therefore bad". | ||
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
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