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On March 29 2015 03:15 Muffloe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 03:11 Penev wrote:On March 29 2015 02:55 Muffloe wrote:
Does this mean Nani thinks that MK's play had the bets voided (and not the line movements)? Yeah, not really mentioning the line movements. I think this is just him siding with MK tbh, i.e. that playing bad doesn't necessarily mean matchfixing
Maybe, doesn't really sound like Nani though. Plus that Huk is kinda a buddy of his and Huk has not exactly sided with MK to put it mildly. Trolling seems indeed more likely. Not that all of this matters of course but at least we keep the thread alive 
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On March 29 2015 03:22 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 03:15 Muffloe wrote:On March 29 2015 03:11 Penev wrote:Does this mean Nani thinks that MK's play had the bets voided (and not the line movements)? Yeah, not really mentioning the line movements. I think this is just him siding with MK tbh, i.e. that playing bad doesn't necessarily mean matchfixing Maybe, doesn't really sound like Nani though. Plus that Huk is kinda a buddy of his and Huk has not exactly sided with MK to put it mildly. Trolling seems indeed more likely. Not that all of this matters of course but at least we keep the thread alive
It could probably be one of his regular jabs at swarm hosts, yeah. I probably shouldn't read too much into it :p But there more we talk about it, the more pressure we put on kespa ^^ + Show Spoiler +(not sure if they read TL tho)
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I am more interested what happened to MVP's statement. Could it be that were ready to say something but Kespa told them to shut the f up?
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On March 29 2015 03:38 maGicc wrote:
I am more interested what happened to MVP's statement. Could it be that were ready to say something but Kespa told them to shut the f up?
That did went through my head as well.. If so, let's just hope it's because it's part of a bigger investigation. That said, I don't see why they (KeSPA) haven't said anything about this AT ALL. I mean, you could at least say you're looking into it or something..
Edit: Also, it's weekend. I'm hoping for a statement on monday.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Well now it's weekend. Maybe they'll say something during the Proleague broadcast <.<
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The aftermath.
If (hypothetical if) MK is guilty. What does the future holds for the scene? First of all, the fixer really screwed MK over with the betting. Imagine if pinnacle didn't flag the match, most would just brush off the match as typical MK screwing up ala bronze league as usual.
I think if a big enough hooha is made. It will send a message to players. There are mechanisms in place to identify fixers, and the fixers do not care jack shit for the players. They will burst the lines to squeeze every last dime from the fix. After this, I doubt players will dare take up the fixer's offer. Either way, I think players will think twice before taking a risk which is a good thing in general.
Kespa. Even without a confession, based on the evidence available (the betting lines, MK's decisions in the game). It is already enough for Kespa to pronounce MK guilty of match fixing. Kespa must ban MK, maybe even the WCS system. Should be a lifetime ban. Seems harsh? Yes. But it is absolutely necessary. Because this is not criminal court, the burden of proof does not lie with the prosecution. Nobody is gonna get jailed or death sentence. Circumstantial evidence will suffice for conviction. If the investigation panel (if any) is not convinced by MK, they can give a verdict of guilty and punishment met accordingly. In other sports, where there are accusations for example of racial abuse, the governing body can pass judgement and punishment, based on opinion of investigation panel. Eg. Luis Suarez vs Patrice Evra.
The Truth. Even if MK is somehow incredibly not guilty of match fixing. Then tough luck. Some crazy bugger with too much cash to burn thinks it is a good idea to dump a mini fortune on MK losing for peanuts. And somehow MK played possibly the worst match in live broadcast history for the match in question. Then MK is really unlucky.
Kespa, Blizzard needs to ban MK. No question about it. If they don't, it will enbolden the fixers and players to even more openly fix matches. Thinking that they can get away with it. Even if the truth is that somehow MK didn't throw the match. Kespa and Blizzard cannot allow the perception that they are 'soft' to permeate amongst the players. It would be the start of the rotting inside the apple.
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On March 29 2015 04:23 Samx wrote:
The aftermath.
If (hypothetical if) MK is guilty. What does the future holds for the scene? First of all, the fixer really screwed MK over with the betting. Imagine if pinnacle didn't flag the match, most would just brush off the match as typical MK screwing up ala bronze league as usual.
I think if a big enough hooha is made. It will send a message to players. There are mechanisms in place to identify fixers, and the fixers do not care jack shit for the players. They will burst the lines to squeeze every last dime from the fix. After this, I doubt players will dare take up the fixer's offer. Either way, I think players will think twice before taking a risk which is a good thing in general.
Kespa. Even without a confession, based on the evidence available (the betting lines, MK's decisions in the game). It is already enough for Kespa to pronounce MK guilty of match fixing. Kespa must ban MK, maybe even the WCS system. Should be a lifetime ban. Seems harsh? Yes. But it is absolutely necessary. Because this is not criminal court, the burden of proof does not lie with the prosecution. Nobody is gonna get jailed or death sentence. Circumstantial evidence will suffice for conviction. If the investigation panel (if any) is not convinced by MK, they can give a verdict of guilty and punishment met accordingly. In other sports, where there are accusations for example of racial abuse, the governing body can pass judgement and punishment, based on opinion of investigation panel. Eg. Luis Suarez vs Patrice Evra.
The Truth. Even if MK is somehow incredibly not guilty of match fixing. Then tough luck. Some crazy bugger with too much cash to burn thinks it is a good idea to dump a mini fortune on MK losing for peanuts. And somehow MK played possibly the worst match in live broadcast history for the match in question. Then MK is really unlucky.
Kespa, Blizzard needs to ban MK. No question about it. If they don't, it will enbolden the fixers and players to even more openly fix matches. Thinking that they can get away with it. Even if the truth is that somehow MK didn't throw the match. Kespa and Blizzard cannot allow the perception that they are 'soft' to permeate amongst the players. It would be the start of the rotting inside the apple.
Hopefully, but this already is the 4th bet to be voided IIRC
Edit: Also, what you're proposing isn't justice. You can't sacrifice people as a deterrent, that's barbaric.
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On March 29 2015 03:38 maGicc wrote:
I am more interested what happened to MVP's statement. Could it be that were ready to say something but Kespa told them to shut the f up?
I'd suggest for you to just wait for someone to come with new information and otherwise lay low until new incidents occur. There is nothing to be gained from repeating the same points over and over again, it just makes the thread harder to navigate.
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On March 29 2015 04:23 Samx wrote:
Kespa, Blizzard needs to ban MK. No question about it. If they don't, it will enbolden the fixers and players to even more openly fix matches. Thinking that they can get away with it. Even if the truth is that somehow MK didn't throw the match. Kespa and Blizzard cannot allow the perception that they are 'soft' to permeate amongst the players. It would be the start of the rotting inside the apple.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion this is the worst possible outcome of this. First off, punishing MK and not bothering to investigate further the other cases would not only terribly unfair but wouldn't help the integrity of the scene at all ; it would send the message that match-fixing is factually allowed, or at least tolerated as long as it isn't too visible. Secondly, if somehow MK didn't throw the match, then you have a SangHo #2 case which is terrible and would be as scandalous as a matchfixing scandal itself. When the integrity of the competition is at stakes, you don't do things just to look "hard", you do things to restore the integrity of the competition.
What will happen if KeSPA choses to either ignore this or to punish MK to please the people without researching further, is what happened to some traditional sports facing doping scandals who chosed to either ignore (Fuentes scandal/operation Puerto hello) or to sacrifice some guilty persons to save all the others (every procycling scandal ever hello) ; a long loss of credibility (or, as we like to call it here, daed game) that leads to nothing good.
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anyone know if kespa made a statement?
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On March 29 2015 06:50 dde wrote:
anyone know if kespa made a statement?
They haven't unfortunately no dde. Do you still play btw?
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Excuse me, I don't know korean law, but is match fixing a criminal offense there ? If that is true, eSports is considered "a sport" and if MK is found guilty, that should mean suspended sentence at the very least. If he is indeed guilty he shouldn't get away with just a ban from Blizzard/KeSPA.
For example in my country match fixing is considered "crime against the sport" and is punished with 1-6 years + a fine.
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On March 29 2015 06:55 Penev wrote:They haven't unfortunately no dde. Do you still play btw?
no I dont play anymore.
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On March 29 2015 03:22 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 03:15 Muffloe wrote:On March 29 2015 03:11 Penev wrote:Does this mean Nani thinks that MK's play had the bets voided (and not the line movements)? Yeah, not really mentioning the line movements. I think this is just him siding with MK tbh, i.e. that playing bad doesn't necessarily mean matchfixing Maybe, doesn't really sound like Nani though. Plus that Huk is kinda a buddy of his and Huk has not exactly sided with MK to put it mildly. Trolling seems indeed more likely. Not that all of this matters of course but at least we keep the thread alive
b-but nani is the coolest guy on earth
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On March 29 2015 07:42 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 03:22 Penev wrote:On March 29 2015 03:15 Muffloe wrote:On March 29 2015 03:11 Penev wrote:Does this mean Nani thinks that MK's play had the bets voided (and not the line movements)? Yeah, not really mentioning the line movements. I think this is just him siding with MK tbh, i.e. that playing bad doesn't necessarily mean matchfixing Maybe, doesn't really sound like Nani though. Plus that Huk is kinda a buddy of his and Huk has not exactly sided with MK to put it mildly. Trolling seems indeed more likely. Not that all of this matters of course but at least we keep the thread alive b-but nani is the coolest guy on earth
I knew you'd come to your senses! 
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Seriously, that dude could not get any more lame. He's not funny, he's not clever. Gah, what a freaking loser and blight on the game.
User was warned for this post
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On March 28 2015 05:35 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2015 05:06 Clonester wrote:On March 28 2015 01:04 Saechiis wrote:On March 27 2015 18:00 Caihead wrote:On March 27 2015 16:47 Disarmed wrote:
Thanks Swoopae,
this is really insightful. I had no idea that there are times where you are sure to make a profit from betting on the less favourable player in a boX series.
but does that mean....if the odds were at 11-1 when the line was taken down, wouldnt it be more reasonable to bet on MK?
Like... shouldnt there logically be a massive counter-trend to bet on Mk as soon as the odds become that absurd? (aka as soon as there were the huge amounts dumped on Byul?)
Shouldnt everybody immediately jump on MK? (nvm if its match fixed or not) That's why the line movement is so absurd, because it is being moved that far despite people who should normally behave by putting money on MK. These huge sums of money were last minute right? Anyways, despite how ridiculous it sounds Kespa might just try and ignore this. The SC2 scene has never been widely supported in Korea. Acknowledgement of a match fixing scandal would likely dissipate the little support the game still has. It is unlikely Proleague would survive, putting all the teams' players and staff out of a job, not to mention void the sponsor deals that were pretty difficult to come by in the first place. Kespa has the responsibility to keep their leagues clean, but they also have the responsibility to protect their teams and employees. I feel the need to protect the SC2 scene overrules the cleanliness of the scene at this point, at least until LotV arrives and SC2 can get some new traction. I predict they'll let this blow over and come with a statement when things have a better chance of stabilising (aka not exploding). I personally think the same, Kespa could lose alot in their SC II brand up to a point where daed gem becomes true in Korea. But still, I think these things must be punished. I mean what did the ongoing Matchfixing show the matchfixers? It works aslong you dont get too greedy and your fixing players arent to stupid to fix the games right. It smells like a Gentlemens Agreement between Kespa and the Fixers "you fix not too obvious and we dont care at all". And for me that sux. I stopped watching ProLeague since every mistake, every bad decision, every bad engagement, i ask myself "fix or not fix". And that sucks. Lol, then you shouldn't watch sports at all. Every time I see a football referee making a mistake I ask myself "corupt or not". Every time I see someone win in athletics, cycling, swimming etc. I ask myself "on drugs or not". Every time I watch gymnastics I wonder how biased are the judges. I mean, welcome to the real world and have fun, because corrution won't go away... Ever. Why should eSports be any different ?
You can pretty much guarantee there is rampant adderrall (amphetamine) use in the eSports scene, lol.
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On March 29 2015 08:48 TronJovolta wrote:Seriously, that dude could not get any more lame. He's not funny, he's not clever. Gah, what a freaking loser and blight on the game.
But people like you, just a shining star man.
On March 29 2015 08:50 TronJovolta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2015 05:35 Pr0wler wrote:On March 28 2015 05:06 Clonester wrote:On March 28 2015 01:04 Saechiis wrote:On March 27 2015 18:00 Caihead wrote:On March 27 2015 16:47 Disarmed wrote:
Thanks Swoopae,
this is really insightful. I had no idea that there are times where you are sure to make a profit from betting on the less favourable player in a boX series.
but does that mean....if the odds were at 11-1 when the line was taken down, wouldnt it be more reasonable to bet on MK?
Like... shouldnt there logically be a massive counter-trend to bet on Mk as soon as the odds become that absurd? (aka as soon as there were the huge amounts dumped on Byul?)
Shouldnt everybody immediately jump on MK? (nvm if its match fixed or not) That's why the line movement is so absurd, because it is being moved that far despite people who should normally behave by putting money on MK. These huge sums of money were last minute right? Anyways, despite how ridiculous it sounds Kespa might just try and ignore this. The SC2 scene has never been widely supported in Korea. Acknowledgement of a match fixing scandal would likely dissipate the little support the game still has. It is unlikely Proleague would survive, putting all the teams' players and staff out of a job, not to mention void the sponsor deals that were pretty difficult to come by in the first place. Kespa has the responsibility to keep their leagues clean, but they also have the responsibility to protect their teams and employees. I feel the need to protect the SC2 scene overrules the cleanliness of the scene at this point, at least until LotV arrives and SC2 can get some new traction. I predict they'll let this blow over and come with a statement when things have a better chance of stabilising (aka not exploding). I personally think the same, Kespa could lose alot in their SC II brand up to a point where daed gem becomes true in Korea. But still, I think these things must be punished. I mean what did the ongoing Matchfixing show the matchfixers? It works aslong you dont get too greedy and your fixing players arent to stupid to fix the games right. It smells like a Gentlemens Agreement between Kespa and the Fixers "you fix not too obvious and we dont care at all". And for me that sux. I stopped watching ProLeague since every mistake, every bad decision, every bad engagement, i ask myself "fix or not fix". And that sucks. Lol, then you shouldn't watch sports at all. Every time I see a football referee making a mistake I ask myself "corupt or not". Every time I see someone win in athletics, cycling, swimming etc. I ask myself "on drugs or not". Every time I watch gymnastics I wonder how biased are the judges. I mean, welcome to the real world and have fun, because corrution won't go away... Ever. Why should eSports be any different ? You can pretty much guarantee there is rampant adderrall (amphetamine) use in the eSports scene, lol.
I was even at a local tournament once and I overheard that people were taking adderall for the edge.
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On March 28 2015 18:27 OtherWorld wrote:
^Since I have no idea how betting sites works, who are the "traders"?
And I believe that TerrOr is on your list too, ByuL vs TerrOr R2
A Trader is a professional expert who is hired to analyse a sport by a sportsbook and set accurate betting lines when the lines are released, then set how far the odds are adjusted by each bet made. I believe Darkforce the former progamer is one of their team of Esports traders (they have a whole team dedicated to each sport).
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2plcj7/ama_former_sc2_pro_darkforce_now_lead_esports/
Terror vs Byul is more under suspicion for being used by match fixers to throw Pinnacle's team off their trail than the match itself being thrown, as it's the only match to date with unusual line movement where the player who had more money bet on them lost.
Naniwa's tweet is obviously trolling about swarmhosts being OP
Still no statement from Kespa or MVP is frustrating, hopefully we get one soon
Also to the guy who said ban MKP as a deterrent, that's ridiculous, not even i'm calling for punishment without a proper investigation, but if he's found guilty over the course of a proper investigation through official channels then of course he should be banned from esports.
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EPT
