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On February 21 2015 01:27 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:25 alukarD wrote:
I would like the opinion of Koreans on this matter. I think they believe they are the best, but I don't think they are cocky enough to say foreigners in general suck.
The best Koreans have lost to foreigners, Flash to Naniwa, Life to Sjow, herO to Snute. Those that mean that they are better? Well, no, I don't think so. But definitely that they are good enough to win occasionally. So I think this discussion is pointless, everybody has got their own opinion.
Foreigners are good. They are a threat to Koreans. I think the more appropriate way to approach this is that foreigners are the underdogs, and by that I understand that they are not expected to win, but they still could, which, in my book, having a chance against the Koreans, its a pretty damn good player. Yeah, I think that the OP is approaching the entire WCS system wrong. The reason the WCS is split up like it is, is specifically so we can find the best foreigner competition for the koreans. Like how WCG was.
Probably Polt/Forgg/Hydra, they kinda ruin the whole thing ssince they'll take so much points during the year + flying to a ton of week end event and get some more points.
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Isn't this topic a bit late? This raging debate took place the day Blizzard announced that Koreans would be blocked from competing outside of Korea, unless you're Polt or ForGG.
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i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality.
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On February 21 2015 01:14 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On February 21 2015 00:59 sAsImre wrote:On February 21 2015 00:55 TRaFFiC wrote:On February 21 2015 00:09 H0i wrote:
There is so much stuff in this thread that is completely ridiculous. It's offensive to korean players to call people playing in tournaments like WCS global "good"? What a joke. The elitist attitude found in the OP and some other posters is a true cancer to the community.
If you actually asked the players, korean or not, you would see they have a great respect for each other. And you will not find one korean who gets upset when someone calls a non korean good. I agree. We had the same issue last year with people calling the Koreans who won WCS EU and NA sub par players. The NA and EU regions will never grow unless the players get the respect and compensation they deserve. The OP is ignorant. Top GM EU players can play better than Koreans on a good day and Koreans can play horribly on a bad day. Top GM Eu is Ptitdrogo lvl. He's my mate and I love him but there is 0 way he plays on the level of a Code S player anytime soon lol. You need to get your blinkers off sometimes I didn't say he would play in code s. I said he could take games off top Koreans which is absolutely true. Another top EU GM is Petreus. This man came from fucking New Zealand all the way to America, then Europe to hone his skill. He has made top 100 kr gm multiple times. The same ignorant and elitist attitude which thinks Koreans are the best and invincible fails to notice when they make terrible errors in game. Petreaus isn't "top gm". He is literraly owning the EU ladder now that korean left. And you misread what I said. There is no way this guy play a game on the level of the average rain/soulkey/ty game level (even on a bad day there is no foreigner even getting close to have TY multitasking tbh). They can beat them if the koreans are playing at a shitty level (and it happens from time to time, lol at Panic dt shrine being scouted by his revealeted stalkers, that was like bronze level play xD). It appears you don't really know what's the real level of top EU GM. Psionic who got owned really hard by Snute sat for a good time in the top 16 gm. Ladder is pointless you can go high by spamming shitty all ins in some match ups that will not help you in actual tournament play. (that being said these guys are decent at sc2 and most of the time the one who aren't good mostly suck at the strategic aspect of the game and multitasking than anything else).
Hahaha ok man might as well shut down gm in NA and EU because it means nothing. Only Koreans gms are "really gm." If all it takes to get high gm is "spam all ins" you should be right up there and hell, even a shitty NA player like me should be top gm. Just "spam all ins." Ridiculous....
If we can agree on anything, it's that top Koreans are on average better. I don't think anyone would argue that.
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United States23455 Posts
On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality.
This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot.
Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good.
In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better.
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On February 21 2015 01:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 00:55 MockHamill wrote:
The OP is one the right track I think. Maybe we just need to decide on a system for classifying Starcraft skill.
I suggest the following:
GSL Champion: Good
Korean Pro: Ok
Foreign Pro: Bad
GM: Really bad
Master: Retarded
Below Masters: Severely retarded Idk. If we say GSL champions are good then we have to call Sniper good, and no one wants to do that. Multiple time Korean Champion: Decent Korean Champion: Okay, maybe just lucky Korean Pro: Not bad I guess Good foreign pro: Bad Bad foreign pro: Really bad GM and below: Severely retarded
You're calling Sniper, Seed and Classic okay and that's definitely not acceptable.
Multiple time Korean champion : OKish.
Korean champion : probably bad since an OK player would have more titles under his belt.
Korean pro : bad to the point he can't even win a KR championship which is the only thing that matters.
The rest : absolutely God awful.
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On February 21 2015 01:30 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:27 travis wrote:On February 21 2015 01:25 alukarD wrote:
I would like the opinion of Koreans on this matter. I think they believe they are the best, but I don't think they are cocky enough to say foreigners in general suck.
The best Koreans have lost to foreigners, Flash to Naniwa, Life to Sjow, herO to Snute. Those that mean that they are better? Well, no, I don't think so. But definitely that they are good enough to win occasionally. So I think this discussion is pointless, everybody has got their own opinion.
Foreigners are good. They are a threat to Koreans. I think the more appropriate way to approach this is that foreigners are the underdogs, and by that I understand that they are not expected to win, but they still could, which, in my book, having a chance against the Koreans, its a pretty damn good player. Yeah, I think that the OP is approaching the entire WCS system wrong. The reason the WCS is split up like it is, is specifically so we can find the best foreigner competition for the koreans. Like how WCG was. Probably Polt/Forgg/Hydra, they kinda ruin the whole thing ssince they'll take so much points during the year + flying to a ton of week end event and get some more points.
Don't forget JD and probably Stardust (not sure?). I don't think a foreigner will play blizzcon this year
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On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better.
I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face.
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On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face.
This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything.
And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ?
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you pretty much have to be white in order to compete in this event.
Why do you think this is appropriate. I really wish people would stop with this shit.
(Outside obvious reference to the  Moon remark)
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On February 21 2015 01:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face. This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything. And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ?
if you haven't won a GSL after a month of playing it is really not worth for you to keep trying.
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On February 21 2015 01:58 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face. This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything. And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ? if you haven't won a GSL after a month of playing it is really not worth for you to keep trying.
Yeah I guess so. But I run out of adjectives to talk about someone who's gold for instance. ^^
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On February 21 2015 02:00 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:58 Big J wrote:On February 21 2015 01:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face. This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything. And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ? if you haven't won a GSL after a month of playing it is really not worth for you to keep trying. Yeah I guess so. But I run out of adjectives to talk about someone who's gold for instance. ^^
That's really blizzards fault. They should force you to register with your passport so you can only have one account, and then do a monthly perma-banwave on everyone below GM. These scumbags really shouldn't play the game.
Then you wouldn't be in trouble finding adjectives for them.
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On February 21 2015 02:03 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 02:00 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:58 Big J wrote:On February 21 2015 01:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face. This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything. And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ? if you haven't won a GSL after a month of playing it is really not worth for you to keep trying. Yeah I guess so. But I run out of adjectives to talk about someone who's gold for instance. ^^ That's really blizzards fault. They should force you to register with your passport so you can only have one account, and then do a monthly perma-banwave on everyone below GM. These scumbags really shouldn't play the game. Then you wouldn't be in trouble finding adjectives for them.
Ha ha ha  . Why just ban them though ? Hunt them and kill them. They are so retarded I doubt they can bring something good to mankind.
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On February 21 2015 02:04 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 02:03 Big J wrote:On February 21 2015 02:00 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:58 Big J wrote:On February 21 2015 01:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face. This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything. And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ? if you haven't won a GSL after a month of playing it is really not worth for you to keep trying. Yeah I guess so. But I run out of adjectives to talk about someone who's gold for instance. ^^ That's really blizzards fault. They should force you to register with your passport so you can only have one account, and then do a monthly perma-banwave on everyone below GM. These scumbags really shouldn't play the game. Then you wouldn't be in trouble finding adjectives for them. Ha ha ha . Why just ban them though ? Hunt them and kill them. They are so retarded I doubt they can bring something good to mankind.
you forgot burning them at the stake.
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On February 21 2015 02:04 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 02:03 Big J wrote:On February 21 2015 02:00 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:58 Big J wrote:On February 21 2015 01:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 21 2015 01:50 bypLy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:39 Darkhorse wrote:On February 21 2015 01:33 bypLy wrote:
i think refering to koreans as better players and the way people talk about korean players in general is insulting and somehow racist.
In the end we are all humans of equal kind. Some humans force them selves to the edge to become the best players. Its the dedication and the hard practice that makes a good player and not the nationality. This is one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered in SC2 general and that's saying a lot. Koreans have proven to be BY FAR better players over Starcraft's history and one only has to look at Premier Tournament wins to see that the assertion that Koreans are better is backed up by facts. Also no one is saying that Koreans are biologically inclined to be better at Starcraft don't be silly. We get that the reason Koreans are better is because they have a better support system in place and more often than not practice longer/harder than their foreign counterparts. It is nurture rather than nature that makes them so good. In short, don't be silly. Of course the Koreans are better. I respectfully disagree, think of the situation: you are a korean and force yourself very hard until you are the 30th best player in the world. Nobody cares about you, but now look at some foreign players that are probably below #200 worlwide getting such a platform and getting called good players. This is a punch in the face. This is the same everywhere. The best non Asian badminton player is always held in high regard even if he's #20. It's unfair, it's stupid, but that's the way it works. A KR player beginning to play SC2 competitively knows he'll have extremely good practice environment but a harder time to get recognition. You can't get everything. And for God's sake, the #200 worldwide is an AMAZING player ! This game is played with dedication by so many people... What do you call the #200 ? Bad ? So what about a low GM ? Not even worth holding a mouse ? if you haven't won a GSL after a month of playing it is really not worth for you to keep trying. Yeah I guess so. But I run out of adjectives to talk about someone who's gold for instance. ^^ That's really blizzards fault. They should force you to register with your passport so you can only have one account, and then do a monthly perma-banwave on everyone below GM. These scumbags really shouldn't play the game. Then you wouldn't be in trouble finding adjectives for them. Ha ha ha . Why just ban them though ? Hunt them and kill them. They are so retarded I doubt they can bring something good to mankind.
I was afraid to post that. But now that you say it, I'm in full agree.
And you know who's the worst? The OP and everyone who agrees with him! He doesn't even have the balls to call for real sanctions. He is the real cancer for our great cause of cleansing mankind, making it look like we would be fine with those people not being called "good" anymore!
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You guys are being too silly.
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In all seriousness I wish people would think about what it takes to play at this level before calling anyone bad or saying they don't deserve to be called good. It's incredibly unfair.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 21 2015 02:09 Deathstar wrote:
You guys are being too silly.
Agreed. Please keep the discussion (however flawed it may have been from the start) on topic.
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thought about this and realised i have a system for rating players but mines much more simple
Elite - yes i use this word, this is reserved for ur tournie winners and time and time again winnters, i would then nominate a best from this i suppose
Good - Using that word again, these players will take games off the elite and are always there in brackets,
Low tier - Pros, are off and on, better than any gm player (sc2 if we use that here) and been in some staged events
Everyone else i just class as a random pro!
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EPT
