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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
I don't even understand why they're trying to give Terran new units when aberrations like the current Thor still exist. Reworking/improving existing units such as the Hellion/Hellbat duo, Mines, Thors, Vikings and to a smaller extent Banshees would already achieve so much more. Banshees are going to wind up being a slower attacking oracle with the Move speed upgrade and they will probably reduce the range they shoot | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:07 TheDwf wrote: They would allow the reorganization of the whole Protoss race without the major obstacles that are Sentries, the MSC, Immortals, Colossi and Warpgate in their current form How? What is the difference between the stalker and a dragoon? Sure, the stats, but as concept? Why not make the stalker "better"? If you can find reasons why making the stalker better (ok maybe if you remove blink) you also state at the same time why dragoons wouldn't work. I maybe can see dragoons/better stalkers being usefull against zerg, but the whole warpgate thing doesn't really allow for it tbh. Other than that against terran they would be just as useless as stalkers are now as soon as terran gets stim and medivacs imo. As long as the pathing works as it does now you will always need strong aoe against terran | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
then 3-6 months later they just say 'well, too op, removed' xD | ||
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Please let the community test things like attack speed reduction or unit spacing in the Alpha or Beta. Just doing internal tests and giving the result as an accomplished fact is really, really annoying for matters the community cares so much about. +1 this | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
Just a few examples of how this affects unit balance: - improves banelings because they only fire once - weakens brood lords because you have a larger window of time to get sufficiently close to kill - improves melee units because damage is decreased and they have more time to close the distance (generalizes to lower range units) - improves spell casters by default because all other units are weaker - makes blink stalkers a lot more powerful since blinking becomes easier, same for roach burrow micro - weakens marauders because you can more easily escape concussive shell - weakens reapers since they depend on reaction time of pulling back workers being too slow Also, it makes positioning at the start of the battle less important, which is bad because that's largely what SC2 micro interactions are based on. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:17 Grumbels wrote: I don't think it's a good idea to change the attack speeds, unless they're willing to make a lot of other changes to the game as well. Just a few examples of how this affects unit balance: - improves banelings because they only fire once - weakens brood lords because you have a larger window of time to get sufficiently close to kill - improves melee units because damage is decreased and they have more time to close the distance (generalizes to lower range units) - improves spell casters by default because all other units are weaker - makes blink stalkers a lot more powerful since blinking becomes easier, same for roach burrow micro - weakens marauders because you can more easily escape concussive shell - weakens reapers since they depend on reaction time of pulling back workers being too slow Also, it makes positioning at the start of the battle less important, which is bad because that's largely what SC2 micro interactions are based on. Exactly what I've wrote on the previous page, it doesn't make any sense to just reduce attack speed without reducing movement speed as well, or whole game speed for that matter. | ||
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viasacra89
United States134 Posts
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:01 Shuffleblade wrote: If you play protoss I agree, as Z or T this doesn't really stay true though. They really should try and find a way to make protoss gateway units less useless. Protoss has to tech to aoe units because their gateway units suck compared to the others races units, the problem is that if they were equally strong warp-tech would be too powerful. Its a hard nut to crack, either you keep them weaker and then P still has to tech or you remove warp-tech which is basically a stable for protoss now. I would really like if people would stop saying gateway units are useless | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:15 The_Red_Viper wrote: How? What is the difference between the stalker and a dragoon? Blink Other than that against terran they would be just as useless as stalkers are now as soon as terran gets stim and medivacs imo. As long as the pathing works as it does now you will always need strong aoe against terran Stalkers are far from being useless even when Terran has stim/Medivacs; just because they lack raw dps and can't beat bio when massed alone doesn't make them completely inefficient. Protoss would need less AoE if their main ranged unit had +20 hit points and +6 (+2) vs Armored. The fact they would still need AoE isn't a problem per se, as long as it doesn't lead to passive colo accumulation like now | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:15 The_Red_Viper wrote: How? What is the difference between the stalker and a dragoon? Sure, the stats, but as concept? Why not make the stalker "better"? If you can find reasons why making the stalker better (ok maybe if you remove blink) you also state at the same time why dragoons wouldn't work. I maybe can see dragoons/better stalkers being usefull against zerg, but the whole warpgate thing doesn't really allow for it tbh. Other than that against terran they would be just as useless as stalkers are now as soon as terran gets stim and medivacs imo. As long as the pathing works as it does now you will always need strong aoe against terran You could just have Dragoons be really beefy and come from Gateways instead of Warpgates | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:20 viasacra89 wrote: Wait.. so what are Terran getting in LoTV? Cyclone is still in there right? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:21 Alchemik wrote: I would really like if people would stop saying gateway units are useless Can't fight against 5 years old myths /: | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
Resource changes I've played around with the mod enough to say I'm quite OK with that change. Even the 12 workers thing, that I was initially quite concerned about, seemed to not snowball too much. Experimenting with slowing down the pacing of combat in SC2 I think the skill component reduction is really huge here. SC2 is a fast paced game, and we admire good players because of how much they're able to perform with accuracy in a very short time. I don't wish the game would go in that direction. Scan range experimentation We've also seen some community feedback about changes that can be made to the scan range to increase the responsiveness of units in combat. We’ve made some adjustments internally and we’re initially liking how it plays out. This is something we’re planning on testing further in the beta. If I understood what Musicus sent on this thread well, this is great. I don't even get why they didn't change that long ago. HERC The HERC has been removed. Good. As for "we want feedback on what could fill that unit slot" : what about fucking NOTHING ? Who said T needed another bio unit ? The advertisers who desperately want to sell that game ? Thor The Thor self-repair ability has been removed. Good, and good reasoning behind the change. New Protoss Unit It sounds too much like something which could overlap heavily with the blink stalker to make me enthusiast. Maybe they're preparing a stalker redesign though, making this new unit legit. But if the blink stalker is going to remain as it is, I'm very sceptical and even reluctant. That gimmicky kind of mobility (same thing with the range prism) doesn't sound good to me. Immortal OK. Tempest Tempest is bad, admit it and remove them. You already made a first step by making long overdue changes on the carriers (build time, interceptors launch) so now do what you should have done when you first thought of that shame of an unit : scrap it, vomit on it, trample on it, burn it, bury it, forget it. Infestor The Infestor ability vs. mass air units has been moved to the Viper. OK, though I'm definitely worried about their mass abilities syndrome. Roach Roach burrow move now works when Burrow is researched and no longer requires an upgrade. This ability allows for some cool micro that we’d like to see more of in Void, so we made it a bit more accessible for now. We’re also considering increasing the movement speed of Roaches while burrowed. Errrrr... OK ? I don't get how P is ever gonna survive mass roaches attacks since you basically have no FFs anymore. They can burrow walk under FFs AND morph into ravagers that break FFs. I don't understand how you can deal with roach ravagers pushes. | ||
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Finnz
United Kingdom260 Posts
Cant judge the new protoss unit as it has no footage yet. Im not really bothered for the other changes to zerg and protoss as they seem pretty minor. unit attack speed decrease by 40%? dont know if blizzard are actually trolling or being serious about even considering this but it would be a disaster if it ever went through. Skill gap would change dramatically and so would the balance of certain units. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
I thought everybody knows that fully upgraded Zealots are unstoppable juggernauts of destruction, literal gods of war. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:23 [PkF] Wire wrote: Errrrr... OK ? I don't get how P is ever gonna survive mass roaches attacks since you basically have no FFs anymore. They can burrow walk under FFs AND morph into ravagers that break FFs. I don't understand how you can deal with roach ravagers pushes. You won't survive the Ravager/Bane bust phase anyway  | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Wait.. so what are Terran getting in LoTV? The Cold shoulder as usual.... | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On February 13 2015 06:24 TheDwf wrote: You won't survive the Ravager/Bane bust phase anyway I know you're joking  but I'm supposed to be happy with it ? I see no way for P to expand safely, seriously. Ravagers come way too early and we rely so much on FFs to deal with baneling busts... Dunno. | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
a new marine's skin | ||
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