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On February 13 2015 05:55 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:45 Big J wrote:
Please don't make combats slower. The worst combats in the game are those that involve lots of low-dps/high HP units, such as Protoss, Roaches or Broodlord type of battles. Swarm Hosts are hated exactly because they slow the pace of the battles down so much, making for minute long struggles to kill a unit or two.
The problem isn't dps/health relations, those are pretty good in general. The problem is too much mobility, which is often described by "fast paced play". The fact that you only have like 10vision range from a lot of angles around your base and then suddenly a gigantic army in the form of medivacs or mutalisks or a single warp prism can appear in your base is the problem.
Harass play is fun, but it also should be limited to that. Mass doomdrops in all Terran matchups severely cripple the abilities to actually move out against a bio-centric Terran. Mutalisks and Zerglings force Protoss into stale defensive positions and severely cripple mapdesign to cater to Protoss ability to do that.
Instead of nerfing the damage output of all those units, it would be nice to give players more reaction time against specific very aggressively used units, allowing for smaller repercussions when making rather small positioning mistakes.
Otherwise the changes seem to go into the right direction. Not sure about the new Protoss unit, but that is very hard to tell until one sees it in action. I think accepting that the mutalisk and medivac are too powerful is beyond Blizzard's collective intelligence level, given that they were already very proud they came up with the concept of enabling harassment tactics as a panacea for improved game design.
Couldn't agree more. With medivac and muta back to their WoL design, we could at last talk about removing mothership core and that would open a whole new world.
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On February 13 2015 05:51 HewTheTitan wrote:
How about this for a new terran upgrade:
Riot Gear
upgrades SCVs with stun batons and helmets, preparing them for the front lines
This sounds so uncivilized compared with the advanced Fusion cutters
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On February 13 2015 05:52 Shuffleblade wrote:
C) Making the games diverse where the meta is not stale but rather have quite a few viable strategies, adding units and really thinking about how they synergise helps accomplish this.
I think Blizzard should really focus on this part, because at the moment every game is about staying safe until being able to tech to AoE damage.
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On February 13 2015 05:47 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:43 NovemberstOrm wrote:On February 13 2015 05:43 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 13 2015 05:37 Noocta wrote:
Sounds to me they still have no idea in which direction going and they're testing random stuff they throw at each other in meetings. Exactly and this worries me. Where is the directing idea ? It's like they listen to the community on some things but throw in random retarded things with them, and all this is ending up to be a mess. I mean why so many changes ? If you take out the SH stalemates and a rather stale PvT, everything else is going quite fine. SH stalemate is being dealt with -even in HotS- and that's absolutely fine, but what do the other changes achieve and what is their goal ? I don't see any deep insight here. It's a bit of this, a bit of that, bones thrown at us, food for thought that doesn't seem to feed anything concrete yet. People have done nothing but complain about their not being enough changes in HotS coming from WoL. If anything I've kept complaining about how HotS kept creating problems WoL did not have. Medivac boost + muta regen forced mothership core + spore bio damage buff, tempests killed brood lords that were already fine after infestor nerf and SH... do I need to elaborate on that one ? WoL + fungal nerfs + phoenix range increase + ultra buffs + maybe viper would have been a great game.
I like both the medivac boost and muta regen, actually these makes the games both more fun to play and more fun to watch. Terran is basically awesome to watch now if you see players using them to their full extent.
Muta regen is actually needed to even have a chance against medivac boost, thor prioritizing air and phoenix range upgrade. I think mutas were better in WoL because of how much better counters the other races have to it now.
Spore damge boost to bio is super important, I play muta in ZvZ everyday and I like this change, says quite a bit.
MSC and tempest is a problem I agree, they are working on trying and fixing that for lotv.
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your Country52797 Posts
On February 13 2015 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Is anyone else than me bothered by the fact the new "core gateway unit" sounds an awful lot like a blink stalker ?
It does seem like it, doesn't it? Hopefully they do something else besides delayed blink or there will be way too much overlap.
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On February 13 2015 05:54 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:49 Musicus wrote:On February 13 2015 05:44 TheDwf wrote:On February 13 2015 05:43 Clonester wrote:
So SCV is back again Terrans best melee unit. As it should be Only until the Super Mega Battle SCV comes out! The latest design we’ve tested for this unit slot is a combat construction type of unit that travels with your army and constructs useful things mid-field to support your bio army. This among many other changes we’ve tried with the HERC hasn’t turn out well for us, but this is not surprising as it really takes a lot of time and effort when it comes to new unit design iteration. We’ll continue to pursue potential new units that fit into the Terran army and we’d love to hear your feedback on this topic. Mining like 4.3 SCVs, it is only logical the MULE receives 4.3 times the dps of a standard SCV, triggering the unstoppable rax 12 into SCV pull + MULE into the enemy base rush! Oh God, this makes me remember this 12 workers at start thing is still there. /:
Oh yeah, rip 6-10 pool  .
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On February 13 2015 05:33 Cheeseling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:31 Superouman wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:The biggest thing we tried here was reducing the attack speed of each unit in the game by 40% and altering some damage values to compensate. Is this for real? Someone slap me to wake me up! LOTV = WC4 ?
we will never get hero units....
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Experimenting with slowing down the pacing of combat in SC2
This is a topic we got a lot of community feedback on, so we did some heavy exploration in this area. The biggest thing we tried here was reducing the attack speed of each unit in the game by 40% and altering some damage values to compensate. Even though a change like this would seemingly have a huge implication on balance, we realized the gain wasn’t as big as we expected. Games feel different from before, but the main question has to be “Is this a positive change that makes games better?” We’re just not sure of this yet. For example, we’re seeing that slower engagements seem to reduce the skill component in combat. Additionally, games feel more dragged out than before. But we’ve only had limited testing at this point, so we’ll continue to explore this area in more detail before making a final call.
Don´t really like that, i love StarCraft for its speed. Thats just my personal feeling.
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On February 13 2015 05:58 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Is anyone else than me bothered by the fact the new "core gateway unit" sounds an awful lot like a blink stalker ? It does seem like it, doesn't it? Hopefully they do something else besides delayed blink or there will be way too much overlap.
It's fascinating how much they're willing to torture themselves so Protoss doesn't get back the Dragoon
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On February 13 2015 05:57 Shuffleblade wrote:
MSC and tempest is a problem I agree, they are working on trying and fixing that for lotv.
They aren't. Read what they wrote about tempest. And they simply can't remove overcharge if they're not willing to seriously buff stalkers -which would create a new set of problems since blink stalkers are already OK especially in PvZ- so MSC will stay here as long as your cherished medivac boost and muta regen are around.
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On February 13 2015 06:00 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:33 Cheeseling wrote:On February 13 2015 05:31 Superouman wrote:On February 13 2015 05:23 The_Templar wrote:The biggest thing we tried here was reducing the attack speed of each unit in the game by 40% and altering some damage values to compensate. Is this for real? Someone slap me to wake me up! LOTV = WC4 ? we will never get hero units....
Besides the one in the Nexus, you mean? 
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On February 13 2015 05:57 CuttyVu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:52 Shuffleblade wrote:
C) Making the games diverse where the meta is not stale but rather have quite a few viable strategies, adding units and really thinking about how they synergise helps accomplish this. I think Blizzard should really focus on this part, because at the moment every game is about staying safe until being able to tech to AoE damage.
If you play protoss I agree, as Z or T this doesn't really stay true though. They really should try and find a way to make protoss gateway units less useless. Protoss has to tech to aoe units because their gateway units suck compared to the others races units, the problem is that if they were equally strong warp-tech would be too powerful. Its a hard nut to crack, either you keep them weaker and then P still has to tech or you remove warp-tech which is basically a stable for protoss now.
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T1 burrowed movement on roaches sounds like GG forcefields. I like that 
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On February 13 2015 06:00 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 05:58 The_Templar wrote:On February 13 2015 05:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Is anyone else than me bothered by the fact the new "core gateway unit" sounds an awful lot like a blink stalker ? It does seem like it, doesn't it? Hopefully they do something else besides delayed blink or there will be way too much overlap. It's fascinating how much they're willing to torture themselves so Protoss doesn't get back the Dragoon
Same with the reaver honestly, hopefully they will put up a lurker just before beta.
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So Tier 1 burrowed Roaches? RIP Gateway Expansion.
I hope they come up with an interesting unit for Terran, one with a role that's actually needed. I kinda liked the HERC concept, but I can see their reasoning. Maybe they should play some more Wings of Liberty and see if they had a cool idea somewhere in there.
Thor without any ability? Meh, who cares.
Immortal change is spot on, making that ability an upgrade was a silly idea after removing hardened shields which didn't have to be researched. The Tempest re-redesign makes me feel weird, I'm not sure I buy the "It's too different from the original idea." thing.
The new unit sounds like a Stalker with hallucination, and worse than both Stalker and Sentry. I'm all for new Gateway units, but I really hope they can make it... more interesting.
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wow really happy with these changes so impressed with blizz,, would love to hear more about "Scan range experimentation"
if its increasing microabilty (micro mechanics dmg point, moving shot... etc) of units i would be soooooooooo happy!!
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How in hell can slowing down the game possibly reduce skill component? What does it even mean?
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On February 13 2015 06:02 juvenal wrote:
How in hell can slowing down the game possibly reduce skill component? What does it even mean?
Some things like Marine splitting would become easier
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Scan range experimentation
We've also seen some community feedback about changes that can be made to the scan range to increase the responsiveness of units in combat. We’ve made some adjustments internally and we’re initially liking how it plays out. This is something we’re planning on testing further in the beta.
I don't get that one. What does the scan range have to do with responsiveness in units in combat ? I must be really dumb, can someone explain it another way ?
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All good changes. That is all.
Edit: Except the reduction of attack speeds, but I don't think that's going to happen.
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EPT
