EPT
Legacy of the Void: Multiplayer Development Update - Page 18
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
On February 13 2015 22:16 DemigodcelpH wrote: Protoss doesn't need a new unit. And remove the Tempest please. It's a badly designed unit that has no place and makes all 3 capital ships not viable. Instead of trying to re-purpose it just take it out. Tempests solve the problem of mass Colossus in PvP and Broodlord-Infestor in PvZ. They try to make Tempests a less hard counter vs BC/Carrier/BL and more like specialist unit and that's the solution of the problem. Why they should remove them now? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 13 2015 22:59 Jenia6109 wrote: Tempests solve the problem of mass Colossus in PvP and Broodlord-Infestor in PvZ. They try to make Tempests a less hard counter vs BC/Carrier/BL and more like specialist unit and that's the solution of the problem. Why they should remove them now? Watch any PvX LotV showmatch and you will see the problem in action | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5739 Posts
Now the choices would be: do I (a) bring SCVs, (b) drop MULEs or (c) use self-repair (or (d) bring my Thor back to base). The advantage of (a) and (b) is that you can keep firing while repairing the Thor. The disadvantage is that it costs you resources. In case of (c) you can fix your Thor free of charge, but it cannot attack and you lose some total HP. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On February 13 2015 21:53 Incognoto wrote: they're experimenting with the idea that engagements should be spread out over time instead of being one big explosion which is over in 10 seconds. i'm fine with this change, it's a good change Given Blizzard's track record, do you really want them to experiment with changing the pacing? We'll just get a repeat of this where they did a few half-hearted experiments and then called it quits, or of the economy change where various people (LaLush, TheDwf) whose opinion matters don't seem to think it's that great. | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
oh and edit: i am not sure how to feel about the tempest. i feel like it needs some type of damage bonus vs BL, but is too strong versus other things like colossus, carrier, MS, BC and so on. It's a weird and troubling issue they have to deal with ;~; | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On February 13 2015 23:44 -Kyo- wrote: Idk how so many people can be ignoring the huge issues with the immortal changes... other than that though everything looks quite good. I especially like the direction of slowing down fights. For whatever reason they say this limits skill... but in actuality, along with what they mention I assume was a note of Vibe, it makes the game MORE skilled. This is good with the addition of more units, faster expansions, and quicker engagements happening. You have to do a lot more over a longer period. oh and edit: i am not sure how to feel about the tempest. i feel like it needs some type of damage bonus vs BL, but is too strong versus other things like colossus, carrier, MS, BC and so on. It's a weird and troubling issue they have to deal with ;~; How does this make the game more skilled? If you don't change anything else (means: you need your apm for other things), it just makes the fights slower. This doesn't add skill, it makes micro easier. People mention BW and it's somewhat slower pace, but you forget that BW required a lot more apm to begin with, it's only natural that it was slower, otherwise it wouldn't be playable. The real "problem" with sc2 fights is the pathing. Units stay together and thus increase the dps per space to ridiculous amounts. That would be an issue blizzard should look into, not the attack rate of units -.- | ||
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NaboliC
Sweden130 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
Also, after watching pvx games of LOTV customs, the Tempest is a fucking terrible unit. | ||
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Vexon
United States23 Posts
The way it seems to me, small battles are not the problem. Stalker vs reaper micro or pvp cheese battles are some of the most tense micro situations in HotS. The difficulty is deathball battles. Marines evaporate under colossus, marauders 1-shot stalkers, hydras die a lot. What if multiple units attacking the same unit did not deal the sum of their damages? Then there is no reason to have 6 colossus attacking the same marines - 2 is enough. Then the focus becomes not simply "massing enough damage" to kill the other's deathball, but splitting your units into small groups, each attacking a different part of the enemy army. Then armies die slower when in large battles, but without affecting the balance of small battles. I do not know whether an adjustment like this could be reliably coded, but I would be very interested in seeing what the effects would be. Would we be disincentivized from deathballs entirely, instead deciding to use small armies across the map. The change seems entirely in spirit with the changes of LotV. How the change would scale per-unit would need to be tested - would it be logarithmic? Square-root? I do not know which implementation would be most balanced and entertaining. TL;DR I would like some feedback on this idea: What if damage from multiple attacking units didnt stack fully? Example: If one unit deals 6 damage, what if 2 attacking at once deals 9-10 instead of 12, and 3 would deal 12-13 instead of 18. This would make small battles more entertaining, and make armies more "tanky" in deathball battles. | ||
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Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
heh blizz doing work as usual, maybe this time they will actually compensate for scrapped ideas instead of shipping as is. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
what's wrong with experiment? Go to reddit to spout your frustrations tym | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On February 14 2015 00:42 NaboliC wrote: Like someone wrote in the first page; LOTV = Wc4? This can be cool actually. I'm SO excited to try new things. This game has endless options to evolve into and the mainpoint for the crew is to make the game more micro-orientated. For LotV to be WC4 there have to be soo many new things, just no. LotV is still a starcraft game, they're merely tweaking numbers here. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On February 13 2015 22:16 DemigodcelpH wrote: Protoss doesn't need a new unit. And remove the Tempest please. It's a badly designed unit that has no place and makes all 3 capital ships not viable. Instead of trying to re-purpose it just take it out. yeah just don't give protoss anything new and even remove their units, will make this dying game much more interesting User was warned for this post | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 14 2015 01:45 ROOTFayth wrote: yeah just don't give protoss anything new and even remove their units, will make this dying game much more interesting Adding units ≠ making things better or more interesting Removing units ≠ making things worse or more boring The important is reworking what exists. Among the Terran and Protoss ranks there are several candidates for that. As for Tempests, it was a typical addition for the sake of addition because they refused to address the state of the Carrier in the first place. LotV is the perfect opportunity for that. | ||
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
On February 14 2015 01:04 Vexon wrote: TL;DR I would like some feedback on this idea: What if damage from multiple attacking units didnt stack fully? Example: If one unit deals 6 damage, what if 2 attacking at once deals 9-10 instead of 12, and 3 would deal 12-13 instead of 18. This would make small battles more entertaining, and make armies more "tanky" in deathball battles. While a system like this would generally encourage splitting up armies, I don't see how this could properly presented to the player just because it is so technical. Also, it could force "un-fun" micro like constant retargeting of units. What you could do is to approximate the effect by introducing more units with damage-over-time effects. That would largely solve the first problem I named, but retain the second one. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 14 2015 01:04 Vexon wrote: TL;DR I would like some feedback on this idea: What if damage from multiple attacking units didnt stack fully? Example: If one unit deals 6 damage, what if 2 attacking at once deals 9-10 instead of 12, and 3 would deal 12-13 instead of 18. This would make small battles more entertaining, and make armies more "tanky" in deathball battles. There's mechanic that punishes units for shooting all attacks at one unit- Overkill. You can see it with units like Roaches and Marauders. Units that don't deal their damage instantly in their animation waste shots. it's not the same as your idea, but your idea would be pretty hard to observe and very clunky. Also, the micro it forces isn't cool or fun, it's more of a chore than anything. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On February 13 2015 05:44 ZAiNs wrote: Nobody will play HotS, might as well quit now. People said same about WoL. Still there is over 20k playing WoL ladder. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On February 14 2015 00:11 The_Red_Viper wrote: How does this make the game more skilled? If you don't change anything else (means: you need your apm for other things), it just makes the fights slower. This doesn't add skill, it makes micro easier. People mention BW and it's somewhat slower pace, but you forget that BW required a lot more apm to begin with, it's only natural that it was slower, otherwise it wouldn't be playable. The real "problem" with sc2 fights is the pathing. Units stay together and thus increase the dps per space to ridiculous amounts. That would be an issue blizzard should look into, not the attack rate of units -.- If by easier you mean it adds the ability to micro more units over a longer period of time while still having to simultaneously do everything you did before... then sure..? This change makes it so that if you do not take the time to diligently micro in battles, where some previously ended so quickly the difference may have been negligible, while still macroing then the game make look entirely different. For example: Making a blink stalker get to 1-2 hits instead of taking 1 hit on hull actually makes a significant difference in dps and longevity of the unit. Same with burrowed roaches and so on. Of course, if you're focusing on micro you have to remember that at top level players are still going to be macroing just as fast as they used to, and on top of that, there is now more options for harass with faster bases being taken. So it adds very good dynamics that may not be apparent imo. | ||
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