EPTLegacy of the Void: Multiplayer Development Update - Page 17
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[BSP]Kain
119 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On February 13 2015 19:04 Yiome wrote: Attack speed change sounds interesting but I really don't want to see starcraft become more and more warcraft III style... And YAY for roach change :D SC1BW was a bit slower than SC2, and a better game as result. | ||
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ooDi
Canada170 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
edit : I dislike the new T unit too, looks like a Terran sentry. The new P unit is what they need but this Shade idea looks very strange for a "core gateway unit". Doesn't "core unit" means "without fancy ability especially useful to kill workers"? Tempest should be removed, not redesigned back to HotS specs. Roach burrow is good, everything that encourages us to make more roaches is good. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3380 Posts
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ETisME
12387 Posts
On February 13 2015 19:50 LoneYoShi wrote: I've played a few games on the LotV extension, and it seemed like a great harass option. Me too but I disagree. Its like playing with double colossus drop, it has way too high risk for what's it worth. Tank is a large part of your unit composition given the cost and the tech path, it's not disposable like a bio drop | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
On February 13 2015 20:31 ETisME wrote: Me too but I disagree. Its like playing with double colossus drop, it has way too high risk for what's it worth. Tank is a large part of your unit composition given the cost and the tech path, it's not disposable like a bio drop Hmm, so I think with the current Sc2-economy, siege tank drop play would be a big part of turtle mech as - when defeindg - some of your siege tanks will be redudant. This means you would be able to harass quite effectively with siege tanks while turtling with your main army if the economy wasn't changed. However, with the new economy, you need to spread your self out faster, which makes each indiviudal siege tank more important. In that situation, I can see drop play + Siege Tanks being used for mobility purposes to go faster from one of your bases to another or for the extra micro during engagements, rather than for harass-play. | ||
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Startyr
Scotland188 Posts
Stalker gets a new damage upgrade on the twilight council. Takes them to a dragoon level of damage but they are still more fragile. Adjust the research time or have it also require the dark shrine or templar archives as required so it is not available to early. Then for a dark archon type unit. 'stasis field' similar to the arbiter ability from Bw. (does the oracle still get that stasis trap ability?) 'speed time' all units within a certain radius of the caster get an increase to movement speed. A mind control ability is possible even if it only lasts a short time. Then give it some version of the shade ability. Caster 'phases out' and becomes invulnerable, also makes them immune to emp. Maybe it turns into some kind of flying unit for the duration so it could follow blink stalkers around. Imagine fully upgraded blink stalkers and a dark archon carrying out hit and run attacks. Higher damage and extra abilities to run away or delay any pursuers. Protoss should feel more comfortable being out on the map constantly instead of sitting back and building up for one big engagement. | ||
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TRex_1270
United States1 Post
It goes from god awful slow to break-neck fast, and if you eff up in either of those two you lose automatically. brood war was fun because it was made to be played, not watched at grand finals. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 13 2015 21:05 Startyr wrote: A simple approach for a protoss gateway unit would be to create another upgrade for the stalker. Stalker gets a new damage upgrade on the twilight council. Takes them to a dragoon level of damage but they are still more fragile. Adjust the research time or have it also require the dark shrine or templar archives as required so it is not available to early. Impossible to do as long as they have Blink | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3380 Posts
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
We’re just not sure of this yet. For example, we’re seeing that slower engagements seem to reduce the skill component in combat. Blizzard talking out of their asses here. slower engagements gives everyone more time to micro, a good player will still have time to out-micro a lesser one | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On February 13 2015 21:48 Incognoto wrote: Blizzard talking out of their asses here. slower engagements gives everyone more time to micro, a good player will still have time to out-micro a lesser one Good luck killing banelings when marines shoot 40% slower. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On February 13 2015 21:51 maartendq wrote: Good luck killing banelings when marines shoot 40% slower. "with damage values adjusted accordingly" Obviously the balance between units is going to go to whack because of this change, I can't even think about how good stalkers become with blink and this change they're experimenting with the idea that engagements should be spread out over time instead of being one big explosion which is over in 10 seconds. i'm fine with this change, it's a good change | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
 !Firstly, props to Blizzard for being so active in communication. It's a fairly recent change and we have to express how much we appreciate them being more open !Comments on the changes posted by Blizzard and possible alternatives: HERC was a nice unit idea. Sadly, it had two main problems. 1- A lack of a defined role. The HERC showed overlap with Hellbats (especially with Medivacs) in it's role in the game. It would do the same thing except without the Mechanical Tag. Whilst the ability looked cool, it was not different enough to differentiate itself enough. 2- It really didn't synergize with Bio well. HERC was an in-your-face unit, commiting itself by using the Grapple ability. Once you used Grapple, you are commited to fighting at that location. Couple this with Terran Bio being very weak to splash (Storm, Collosus, Fungal, Baneling, Disruptor, Ravager, Lurker, etc.) and you have an army on one hand that needs to kite and move around, and a unit that essentially yolo's into enemy forces. When looking at the Terran race and what it needs to fill gaps, there's a couple of things that come to mind, especially when considering the new economy. The new economy will force more expanding, which forces races in one of two main playstyles: more defensive and cost-efficient, or more mobile and highly aggressive. Mech fills the first role decently, Bio fills the second. Protoss and more so Zerg both have their equivalents to the styles of play. Given we'll see the Cyclone, Mech will have one of it's major weaknesses strenghtened, Mech can finally pose a threat on the map that isn't defended with static defense (read: not Hellions). Bio is certainly the more aggressive style. We need to make a decision here. Do we want Bio to be more aggressive and be forced into aggression OR do we want Bio to be capable of filling both roles (akin to BioTank in WOL) of defending and having the ability to move out and pressure on the map without being highly exploitable (this is what the Medivac + Tank change does!). Terran doesn't have a major gap in it's playstyle, so I'd prefer seeing more changes to existing units rather than forcing an additional unit in there for the sake of having an additional unit. Examples include but are not limited to: the Reaper (upgrades for the WOL weaponset in midgame for an harrassing marauding squad / smoke bomb upgrade that denies vision of a location like the LOS-blockers do...), buffing the Siege Tank to deal much higher damage at the cost of attack speed or smart- targeting (this allows Mech to more easily secure locations that are more spread out without commiting too much supply, meanwhile, they are more exploitable with flanks and baiting shots, even introducing overkill), doing something to make the Ghost less of a niche unit (rebuff Snipe to deal 35~40 damage +10 Psionic so Snipe can actually be used to snipe, the current implementation is worthless) and preferably adding a third (fourth, if you count Nuke) ability like Lockdown or Irradiate, which are very Ghosty abilities to introduce into the game. Vikings could use some changes to make them more effective on the ground, please consider changing the animation so they land whilst moving, making landing a lot less clunky. Lastly, make Battlecruisers more threatening! They're fucking expensive, take a long time, and pretty damn underwhelming T_T Thor Repair Removal is fine, it was a boring concept from start, so well... Something I thought of when thinking of the Thor is introducing a sort of skillshot like in the WOL campaign, but less powerful. Possibly make it's primary use a 2 second stun. Overall, I think reducing Thor size and making them faster and reducing the attack delay goes a long way into making them less of a clunky missfit of a unit. New Protoss Unit really feels like it'll end up like a Ground-Only Dragoon with Stalker teleportation skills. I'd prefer seeing the Stalker as more of a harrassment unit and introducing the Dragoon as a straight up combat unit (BETTER AI!). This should give Protoss the oomph it needs to expand faster and be less vulnerable to... well... anything. Make sure the Dragoon deals with Roaches really well! Gateway units is really one of the things Starbow nailed in my opinion. Most of what they have done is not my preference, but this is really something worth looking at! Tempest suffers from a lack of role definition as well. The 500 damage/50 second DOT spell is silly, it's not the sort of thing we'd want to see in SC2. I've said before that turning the Tempest into a support unit rather than an attacking unit is an interesting option. The thing I had in mind is a mobile Repair Drone sort of attachment. As of now, Protoss is the only race incapable of fully healing it's army. Attaching 2 Repair Drones to the Tempest could relieve this. They should only come out when both units are out of combat. Additionally, you can give the Tempest access to a few Combat Spells (Oracle is the support caster/scout unit, Tempest will be the army support unit). Things like Statis Shield, Overload attack (I think Phoenix/Tempest had it in WOL/HOTS Alpha) to deal a high amount of damage at the cost of a cooldown. Keep it's improved mobility and give it an attack similar to HOTS (remove vs Massive) and reduce Range a bit. I don't know if this will actually work, I'm basically spouting ideas here. Tempest really suffers from a lack of definitive role as it's range really makes it a massive snowball unit. Immortal Barrier/Hardened Shields changes are interesting. I'd prefer seeing them changed so Hardened Shields works differently. It reduces damage of 20 or less to 10, and halves damage higher than 20. They'll be less of a hardcounter to Siege Tanks and I think they'll work fine that way. TheDwf advocated this quite often. Additionally, for Protoss, really consider changing Gateway Ranged Unit support to a more dedicated unit and make the Stalker more of a specialized unit. Make Movement a tad faster, lower damage, maybe keep their damage vs Air just as high... I really think this would help Gateway armies become strong enough to stand a chance when engaging on multiple fronts. An important mention to make is that Gateways should have a benefit over Warpgates. Whilst nerfing Warp Gate Warp In currently is a fun solution, I'd prefer seeing Gateways have a certain advantage (especially defensive!!!) over Warpgates. Think of increasing Post WG research production time or weakening units that were warped in (0 shields at warp in, take higher damage for 20 seconds, whatever). Roach burrow movement at T1 might be too powerful, especially when coupled with Ravagers at T1. Whilst it might be problematic, I would like to see how it turns out! Infestor is in an awkward place. AFAIK, Fungal/IT stay (they are fine spells now) but the third spell is problematic. I would love to see Dark Swarm (not gonna happen T__T) but a Bloodlust Spell could work as well (Prime candidates are units like the Ravager, Ultralisk, Brood Lord, SuperSwarm Host) that increase attack speed. I could also see Neural being redeveloped slightly. It's an interesting concept that hasn't received enough attention, IMO. General Attack Speed Decrease won't work without changing Movement speed as well. Whilst currently battles happen to fast, we need to take into account that economy is decelerated and battles will take place in multiple area's in LOTV, which automatically reduces the amount of participating units. I could see a general game speed reduction of 5%-10% have some interesting effects, but I agree, making the game too slow really changes the difference between pro and casual play in a negative way. ALSO, THIS IS THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO SYNC GAME TIME WITH ACTUAL TIME!!! Timings will be thrown off anyways with the new economy and 12 worker openings, so this is a chance to change that weird time in game to reflect actual real world time without having any nasty side effects. | ||
nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
Oh god... I had such high hopes for LotV to change SC2 for the better.  | ||
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