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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 30 2015 20:40 Ramiz1989 wrote: Remove Protoss first and we have a deal! Id be fine if I could just turn the matchup off. Shall all the Ps be unable to find an opponent until they made all the bullsgit unavailable. The most fun part is how most P streamers hate to play against P too. ^^ | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On January 30 2015 21:26 Big J wrote: Id be fine if I could just turn the matchup off. Shall all the Ps be unable to find an opponent until they made all the bullsgit unavailable. The most fun part is how most P streamers hate to play against P too. ^^ Well, that would be as good as removing them, since nobody would turn on the "vP" matchup. :d | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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klup
France612 Posts
The mine tank turtle dream might be a thing now. We will need a lot of testing to see how SH synergize with other mech counter such as mutas and ultralisk. Charge with ultralisk in mines field to allow locust to hit tanks might be a good way to break siege lines. I remember when HTOmario showed us some sexy style with mass mines that I'm still using from time to time. This style might become very potent now. This change is really exciting because it opens tons of possibility for openings and aggressive styles in both TvP and TvZ. I am just worried that in one matchup Z got the long stick and in the other the short stick. I hope this will balance out by its own ! The raven nerf might indicate that balance team identified that the SH redesign is leading to an advantage of mech terran vs zerg. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 30 2015 21:52 SatedSC2 wrote: It's not selective reading. It's not that I didn't read the other changes. It's that I don't think the other changes balance out how bullshit that one change is. EDIT: And it's funny how many people still harbour resentment towards Protoss for a period of success that was completely based on map-balance and not unit balance, whereas the Zerg period of success (which lasted much longer) was entirely based upon unit balance. But whatever, I get it. Protoss are the bastard child of Starcraft and everyone hates us for no good reason. S'cool. So SH cost essentially doubling, a complete waste of money and supply for half the time are not important details? The fact it is essentially a 5 second more Locust for 30 second more no locust trade doesn't matter? People don't resent Protoss for that (sidenote, blink and MSC were nerfed, so there was a part unit balance in there), you act like you are the victim here which is a bit silly, especially given no testing has been done at all. Also, people hate Protoss for the amount of ridiculous freewin/freeloss builds they have and for some stupid mechanics like forcefield and motherbullshitcore and the overreliance on key units. Which sadly is all you get to deal with when playing on ladder. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 30 2015 22:00 klup wrote: Mines I actually agree with the Mine part, Mines with Sensor Tower support can be a mobile response to Locust 0_0 cool! | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
And it's funny how many people still harbour resentment towards Protoss for a period of success that was completely based on map-balance and not unit balance, whereas the Zerg period of success (which lasted much longer) was entirely based upon unit balance. But whatever, I get it. Protoss are the bastard child of Starcraft and everyone hates us for no good reason. S'cool. Bullshit. Noone hates Protoss for their power period. People hate it because of force fields. Because of Warpgate allins. Because of Warpgate with some tech allins. Because of the Collossus and its affiliated deathballs. You wanna talk stuff that shouldn't be in the game? Stuff that people have identified as bullshit 5years ago and is driving people away from the game? Swarm Hosts get fixed (or it is being tried at least), that's great. It's been long overdue. Protoss remains the same shitrace that noone wants to play against with its coinflips and boring deathballs and no interesting middleground in between most of the time. Ground units shouldn't be able to stand on top of each other. Period. The Collosus hasn't been redesigned in 5years, after like a million threads have been made. Talking about the beloved child of blizzard. The LotV warpgate change should be implemented TODAY and then the game should be balanced around it. Just like You keep on bringing up how SHs are bullshit and I agree fully. But when it's you own garden of well-grown bullshit (do I need to refer to the "how can I make the game maximum annoying for my opponent"-strategy threads of yours?), all you can identify is "irrational Protoss hate". Lol. And since you bring in mapbalance vs unitbalance as if those were not connected: ZvP was Protoss and Terranfavored on Ohana during BL/Infestor. It was just "shitmaps" that werent like Ohana that catered to BL/Infestor, the units were fine trololololol. (now reform that sentence with whirlwind and blink stalkers and we get exactly your argument why blink stalkers are fine... funny) No, blink stalkers + MsC were broken in TvP. Period. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
I am not disliking Protoss because of balance reasons, balance will change from time to time and maps will also change it. I dislike Protoss because of their design and I am pretty sure that most of the people agrees with me on this, on the other hand you dislike Zerg because of free units which is also design problem. It is all subjective, just like you hate free units, same way I think that Warpgates are pile of crap. EDIT: Two posters before me pretty much described my thoughts. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2663 Posts
On January 30 2015 22:12 Big J wrote: Bullshit. Noone hates Protoss for their power period. People hate it because of force fields. Because of Warpgate allins. Because of Warpgate with some tech allins. Because of the Collossus and its affiliated deathballs. You wanna talk stuff that shouldn't be in the game? Stuff that people have identified as bullshit 5years ago and is driving people away from the game? Swarm Hosts get fixed (or it is being tried at least), that's great. It's been long overdue. Protoss remains the same shitrace that noone wants to play against with its coinflips and boring deathballs and no interesting middleground in between most of the time. Ground units shouldn't be able to stand on top of each other. Period. The Collosus hasn't been redesigned in 5years, after like a million threads have been made. Talking about the beloved child of blizzard. The LotV warpgate change should be implemented TODAY and then the game should be balanced around it. Just like You keep on bringing up how SHs are bullshit and I agree fully. But when it's you own garden of well-grown bullshit (do I need to refer to the "how can I make the game maximum annoying for my opponent"-strategy threads of yours?), all you can identify is "irrational Protoss hate". Lol. And since you bring in mapbalance vs unitbalance as if those were not connected: ZvP was Protoss and Terranfavored on Ohana during BL/Infestor. It was just shitmaps that werent like Ohana that catered to BL/Infestor, the units were fine trololololol. (now reform that sentence with whirlwind and blink stalkers and we get exactly your argument why blink stalkers are fine... funny) No, blink stalkers + MsC were broken in TvP. Period. Don't respond to Sated, it only derails the post, for him everything of the other races is bullshit, except protoss wich is the perfect race that people hate for no reason because they're misunderstood. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
On January 30 2015 15:34 Seeker wrote: Can we just remove swarm hosts from the game? :/ That's essentially what I'm asking for since they've been introduced. And I know a lot of other Zergs that feel the same way. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 30 2015 22:29 SatedSC2 wrote: I've made it very clear in a good many threads that I think the game is pretty balanced as it is as long as the right maps are used. There is a lot of bullshit all the races can do, but nothing think needs removing bar the SH. Even then, I think the SH is bullshit for design/fun reasons, not because they cause balance problems. So basically you're wrong. Nice try, better luck next time sucka. There's a lot of bullshit all the races can do. But Protoss has like 3times the amount of the other races. All of what I wrote about Protoss isn't a balance complain. The game is well-balanced. It's about design and fun. Exact same argument as yours. Again, you see it when it is against you in the form of the SH, you don't see it when you use the unfun things in the game. And since you don't see it, you bring in balance arguments like baneling busts and forcefields, what the fuck? I specifically stated the game should get balanced around it. You just don't want to read or understand what other people write, bringing in strawmen arguments against balance-positions that noone took a stance for and being an asshole on top of it, "sucka". | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On January 30 2015 08:26 DemigodcelpH wrote: You're backpedaling now because I called you out for not fairly thinking for all races. This isn't something minor like an isolated unit vs unit interaction. This is about the viability of a major playstyle. There's no reason for half of Terran to not be viable. This change was aimed at the standoff in TvZ, and not Protoss or Mech. So when it clips mech in other matchups, something that is already struggling, all without being intended that's an issue. Tempests are standard vs mech (something you obviously didn't know), and with a Raven nerf but no change to Protoss Tempest + HT is unstoppable. Mech just went from "you will probably lose" to "you lose". The ramifications of all potential changes should be considered. As much as i agree that mech is a critical component of Terran that is not just a combination of random units but half the tech tree, mech in HOTS TvP does not actually exist at pro level. A few games out of 1000s or a couple of GM streamers don't really change that. The Balance is meant for pro play and Blizz has given up on mech for HOTS a long time ago. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On January 30 2015 22:37 Big J wrote: There's a lot of bullshit all the races can do. But Protoss has like 3times the amount of the other races. All of what I wrote about Protoss isn't a balance complain. The game is well-balanced. It's about design and fun. Exact same argument as yours. Again, you see it when it is against you in the form of the SH, you don't see it when you use the unfun things in the game. And since you don't see it, you bring in balance arguments like baneling busts and forcefields, what the fuck? I specifically stated the game should get balanced around it. You just don't want to read or understand what other people write, bringing in strawmen arguments against balance-positions that noone took a stance for and being an asshole on top of it, "sucka". Yeah I don't think that there is point in arguing about this. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2663 Posts
On January 30 2015 22:29 SatedSC2 wrote: I've made it very clear in a good many threads that I think the game is pretty balanced as it is as long as the right maps are used. There is a lot of bullshit all the races can do, but nothing I currently think needs removing bar the SH. Even then, I think the SH is bullshit for design/fun reasons, not because they cause balance problems. So basically you're wrong. Nice try, better luck next time sucka. SH are awful for design not blance Protoss is fine in balance (no mention of design) You don't even try to make sence in your posts, seriously, every time somebody talks about the protoss design you talk about balance, also for you everything you don't like is bullshit (wich is ok) but when others don't like things about protoss you always bring balance and how terran/zerg dominated in X time. I even remember what you posted after the WM buff vs protoss and how killing templars openings was a super nerf to protoss but every time somebody said how terran can't mech vs protoss you said that wasn't a problem and that mech was viable and it was the terrans fault. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Also, do not play the victim card if you started yourself. Now, that being said, I want you to explain this to me: SH cost essentially doubling does not matter because they spawn free units anyways. So, can we make Collosi 1000/500? Because when you finally get 5 you can't kill them anyways? You say it changes nothing, but it changes everything. Timing, supporting techs, all get delayed massively. As for SH staggering to fill up the 30 second cooldown, we're talking about double the SH for double the cost. Essentially, you want Zerg to pay 4 times as much for the same thing as they get now without changing anything else and you suppose that is fair? It's not. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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