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Pinnacle voids Dark vs. San bets due to match manipulation…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1079 CommentsPost a Reply
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Matchfixing is a very serious offence and accusations of matchfixing should not be made lightly. Please avoid making accusations against specific individuals unless you have substantial proof, or until further information is released. (0620 KST)
DJHelium
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden13480 Posts
January 20 2015 18:25 GMT
#81
On January 21 2015 03:20 just_mo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 03:15 DJHelium wrote:
On January 21 2015 03:14 just_mo wrote:
lol at people just assuming there's nothing behind this and Swoop is just throwing accusations around. Do you people know anything about sports betting? San was almost a 3 to 1 dog against Dark. That make an ounce of sense to anyone here? My SC2 following has tapered off quite a bit over the past 6 months, but last I recall San was a championship contender and Dark was a solid contributor for his team.

Assuming the opening line was something relatively close to even money, for a line to move that much, there have to be multiple, multiple max bets (I think the limits are only like $200 or so for these markets) streaming in on one side (obv Dark in this case). About as much smoke as possible here. Pinnacle is considered by nearly everyone in the sports betting world to be the most respected book out there. They aren't just going to cancel bets to not have to pay out a few thousand (lol at whoever said that). They were taking bets of 150k during the NFL conference championship games. This is peanuts to them.


While San can be a championship contender, especially in PvZ, Dark is one of the best players in the world right now. I think most ppl consider him a favourite in the match.


There are favorites and there are 3 to 1 favorites. I used to pay a bit of attention to the SC2 lines when we played a handicapping game on a different forum, and a line like that would come from an extremely lopsided match, think Innovation during the Ro32. You think Dark is that big of a favorite over San? If I'm wrong let me know, but it doesn't sound remotely correct to me.

Swoop has been doing well betting these games for over a year now, if he says the line was way, way off where it should have been, I would tend to believe him.


I'm not saying anything about the maxfixing, just that San was no favourite vs Dark.

I watch a lot of SC2. If I were to estimate San vs Dark right now, I'd say Dark wins maybe 7-8 series out of 10. He's that much better.
#1 player in the world atm: J-god | Follow me on twitter! @DJHelium
PepsiMaxxxx
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden5452 Posts
January 20 2015 18:25 GMT
#82
It all makes sense now.
Solar losing to Lilbow.
Flash not winning everything ever.
Zest losing to Creator.
MMA killings his own CC.
Huk hallucinating Void Rays.

IT'S ALL A LIE!
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
January 20 2015 18:26 GMT
#83
Any official KESPA release on this yet?
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
RiskyChris
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
125 Posts
January 20 2015 18:29 GMT
#84
On January 21 2015 03:25 PepsiMaxxxx wrote:
It all makes sense now.
Solar losing to Lilbow.
Flash not winning everything ever.
Zest losing to Creator.
MMA killings his own CC.
Huk hallucinating Void Rays.

IT'S ALL A LIE!


Yeah can I get a rollback on this FPL week for Zest losing and Dark winning? Thanks, TL.

On a serious note, I really really really hope this is just Pinnacle finding the bets SUPER suspicious and just following protocol. I'm not sure the scene can handle some kids coming and fucking up KeSPA reputation again...
just_mo
Profile Joined March 2013
United States23 Posts
January 20 2015 18:30 GMT
#85
Just hard to communicate how big of a favorite someone has to be in a ONE GAME series to be a -300 favorite to folks not familiar with sports betting. With the amount of variance in one game, that's just massive. When we were doing the handicapping game, I was one of the best players and I would basically always take underdogs this big, and that was in 3 game sets for GSL mostly.

I'll take your guys word for it that Dark was a solid favorite, but for a highly respected book like Pinnacle to do this + probably one of the best SC2 bettors out there seeing what he thought was a terribad line and what he called fishy line movement, I just would be pretty surprised if there wasn't something to this. As I was saying, takes a lot of money to move a line that heavy, and Swoop pays attention to these lines on a daily basis. Why would someone out of the blue decide to just go all in on this match and this mysterious heavy bettor never moves any other lines like this? Doesn't add up.
FG
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
January 20 2015 18:31 GMT
#86
On January 21 2015 03:25 PepsiMaxxxx wrote:
It all makes sense now.
Solar losing to Lilbow.
Flash not winning everything ever.
Zest losing to Creator.
MMA killings his own CC.
Huk hallucinating Void Rays.

IT'S ALL A LIE!

Dude Lilbow is super legit
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
WinterWoes
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia450 Posts
January 20 2015 18:31 GMT
#87
On January 21 2015 03:26 Pandemona wrote:
Any official KESPA release on this yet?

It is quite late at night in Korea so you might have to wait a while for any response.
Moderator
MorDka
Profile Joined October 2012
Poland543 Posts
January 20 2015 18:32 GMT
#88
This is really bad for starcraft T.T
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
January 20 2015 18:33 GMT
#89
What in the world.
Who in good mind could even pay San to throw the game.

Pinnacle pls.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
January 20 2015 18:34 GMT
#90
On January 21 2015 03:32 MorDka wrote:
This is really bad for starcraft T.T


because a random site is not paying the bets and throws shit against san?
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
Jankoj
Profile Joined June 2013
3 Posts
January 20 2015 18:35 GMT
#91
First Effort and Hydra getting acused of match fixing by their own coach and now this. wtf is going on in korea?

Hope this is resolved soon and we get some information.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
January 20 2015 18:35 GMT
#92
On January 21 2015 03:34 xuanzue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 03:32 MorDka wrote:
This is really bad for starcraft T.T


because a random site is not paying the bets and throws shit against san?

Pinnacle isn't a random site, it's THE place to bet on esports.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
January 20 2015 18:35 GMT
#93
On January 21 2015 03:34 xuanzue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 03:32 MorDka wrote:
This is really bad for starcraft T.T


because a random site is not paying the bets and throws shit against san?

Based on some of the responses in this thread, this isn't a random site?
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
feebas
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland268 Posts
January 20 2015 18:36 GMT
#94
Please let it not be true, manzenith.
paska peli
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12577 Posts
January 20 2015 18:36 GMT
#95
On January 21 2015 03:06 Antoine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 02:55 Blargh wrote:
On January 21 2015 02:51 Gwavajuice wrote:
Could this be a way for a betting website to not pay the winners if the outcome is very defavorable to the bet site?

San was not outplayed in a really shocking way, was he?

The only debatable moment was when San blinked all of his stalkers into a roach hydra army of comparable size, losing most of his army. Protoss players get overconfident and do that all the time, though, and it wasn't the worst "throw" out there.

There was more than just that. He didn't mineral walk his scout probe and lost it to 2 zerglings, he lost his mothership core to one queen at dark's nat, and I'm only halfway through


To me that makes it more likely that he didn't throw. I view San as a smart player who has weak control sometimes. If he were to throw, I expect he would be smart enough not to intentionally lose a MSC like that; it doesn't guarantee a loss at all, so you don't gain much doing it, and so it looks suspicious for no reason in retrospect.
No will to live, no wish to die
ClueClueClue
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1203 Posts
January 20 2015 18:36 GMT
#96
The only viable proof is actual transactions and chat logs imo. You can look at any game and point at both players' mistakes and say "he did that on purpose!". Because mistakes are made in heaps every day in the world of starcraft; nothing fishy about that necessarily, since that's how you lose any game, not just the ones you throw...
Cogito, ergo toss.
just_mo
Profile Joined March 2013
United States23 Posts
January 20 2015 18:37 GMT
#97
On January 21 2015 03:35 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 03:34 xuanzue wrote:
On January 21 2015 03:32 MorDka wrote:
This is really bad for starcraft T.T


because a random site is not paying the bets and throws shit against san?

Based on some of the responses in this thread, this isn't a random site?


The most respected sportsbook on earth. Can't stress that enough.
FG
ilikeredheads
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1995 Posts
January 20 2015 18:38 GMT
#98
pretty shady to accuse someone without actually showing some evidence.

A player's reputation is on the line here.
just_mo
Profile Joined March 2013
United States23 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-20 18:41:42
January 20 2015 18:40 GMT
#99
On January 21 2015 03:38 ilikeredheads wrote:
pretty shady to accuse someone without actually showing some evidence.

A player's reputation is on the line here.


Where are people getting the idea that there is no evidence? Pinnacle clearly has plenty of it, line movements can tell you quite a bit.

An example: http://www.sportdw.com/2014/08/how-to-fix-tennis-match-by-boy.html
FG
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-20 18:41:03
January 20 2015 18:40 GMT
#100
On January 21 2015 03:35 Jankoj wrote:
First Effort and Hydra getting acused of match fixing by their own coach and now this. wtf is going on in korea?

Hope this is resolved soon and we get some information.


It's completely different stories.
EffOrt and Hydra were accused apparently by Coach Park without any evidence, so there was just black cat between them.

Pinnacle is respected though, so it's not cool.
Even though, i don't see how T1 player can be involved in it, with oov even saying that he won't talk to Bisu at all if he plays showmatches against saviOr and San throwing intentionally seems random. Hope for best things ofc.

On January 21 2015 03:40 just_mo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2015 03:38 ilikeredheads wrote:
pretty shady to accuse someone without actually showing some evidence.

A player's reputation is on the line here.


Where are people getting the idea that there is no evidence? Pinnacle clearly has plenty of it, line movements can tell you quite a bit.


It's not like there are million bets on esports, so it's not same level of evidence as in real sports.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
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