On February 17 2025 09:16 7mk wrote: Who would have thought that Magnus Carlsen would one day be signed by Team Liquid (for chess, not for starcraft) :D
Im a little surprised that I did not see a single thread about it on here though.
Whoa. This is true. And Caruana has previously been signed, too. This is actually huge news.
And I also see TL called Carlsen the GoaT in their welcome message. So we can have another GoaT debate here.
On February 17 2025 09:16 7mk wrote: Who would have thought that Magnus Carlsen would one day be signed by Team Liquid (for chess, not for starcraft) :D
Im a little surprised that I did not see a single thread about it on here though.
Whoa. This is true. And Caruana has previously been signed, too. This is actually huge news.
And I also see TL called Carlsen the GoaT in their welcome message. So we can have another GoaT debate here.
Fuck yeah! And centuries worth of competitors to pick from as well. I'm casting my lot with Giovanni Leonardo di Bona da Cutri (1542-1587)
On a side note, they better not have Magnus wear the normal TL jersey and have a blazer on top of that. Make him a custom jacket goddammit.
On February 17 2025 11:40 CicadaSC wrote: what is this thread... there is a lot more to starcraft than being smart. also the meta is pretty figured out so its more about execution and dexterity than anything. Look at clem. you can copy his build but u still can't execute like clem.
Clem was not even born when this thread was created
If you watch Magnus Carlsen play internet chess, you'll see that he has incredible mouse skills as well. In fact, one of the memorable videos is his friendly match against Alexandra Botez in blitz where he gives himself only 30 sec vs her 5 mins:
Don't think Carlsen will necessarily be a top top player, but he'll definitely be very good - I think he could potentially be a GM-level player.
Chess i a slow game, even the speed chess. I mean, he is a chess wizard, thats for sure. But looking at a chess board which he has done for all his life, and is always in complete map control, is very different from sc2. My answer is, i dont know, he could suck, he could be amazing. Its impossible to tell. But you question was if he played sc2 "ONCE", then he would probably get destroyed. But if he had a month to practice mechanics and study the units and their strength etc. then it would be another question.
I think he'd be very, very strong. Maybe not immediately, but in a very short timeframe.
I disagree that the skills aren't transferable, I think the majority are transferable. Plus combine that with insane work ethic, the process of game review and analysis, and the winner's drive.
On February 19 2025 00:47 Chill wrote: I think he'd be very, very strong. Maybe not immediately, but in a very short timeframe.
I disagree that the skills aren't transferable, I think the majority are transferable. Plus combine that with insane work ethic, the process of game review and analysis, and the winner's drive.
Completely agree. His basic mouse skills are of course transferable, but also the competitiveness, calm under pressure, ability and willingness to dive into prep (chess openings are so much better studied than starcraft ones), analytical mind. There's no question somebody like him would be at least an A-rank pro. Whether he can be a Clem/Serral/Maru/Reynor/Maxpax? Harder to say, since those kids can win games on mechanics alone. But for him to end up at the same level as a Heromarine, showtime, cure, stats, I think that would be pretty believable if he were to be fully dedicated to the game (lot of muscle memory for a game like SC).
All the top players at the moment are players who picked up SC2 when they were like young teenagers. Even if Magnus picked up SC2 when he was 24 when this thread was opened it would already be quite hard for him to catch up.
In the hypothetical universe where Magnus got passionate about Starcaft instead of Chess then yes, he could be one of the best.
On topic I think he would be very good. There would be a learning curve of course but it wouldn't look like yours or mine. Each loss would have alot more learnt from it and I don't doubt he could get GM in under a year if he started now.
Some people are naturally good at these games. Having been around and watched respected players come from other games or come back from huge breaks has taught me that. I've seen players come to this game with near zero experience quickly get to a higher level than myself whos played for twenty years. God that feels weird to type.
There's enough overlap in mental skills/talent required in various 'games' (video games, chess, poker, etc) so that lots of people in the top 1% of a certain game can become top 1% in another. The real differentiation is in who can become a top 0.01%/pro level player.
I'd say getting GM in current SC2 would be pretty trivial for someone like Magnus if he actually put in time/effort—getting to "pro" level (whatever that means right now) is another story.
He would suck. Come on guys, he plays chess, is a genius at that, I follow the scene for quite a while now, I don't get why you think he would be gm in a year for sure? The overlapping skillset is not that big, especially in sc2 (compared to bw), mechanics are everything. Yes, he can move chess figures quickly, that's drag and drop from one position to another!! There's no grouping, building selection, splitting, micro management, a-moving, spellcasting.... The list goes on. It is very simple to play chess, micro-wise, even on short time formats. There are even a lot of people that are faster than Magnus (Hikaru, Alireza, Abdusattorov, Lazavic...), but surely all of them would be gm in no time, too. And Clem and Serral would of course rock the chess world, because they are good at sc2... Sorry, but it takes more than being good at something remotely similar.
On February 20 2025 00:55 Rob-Zero wrote: The overlapping skillset is not that big, especially in sc2 (compared to bw), mechanics are everything.
I agree. I think many are overestimating the similarities between chess and SC.
The single most important skill in chess is pure and raw calculation. Of course, there are many other factors – preparation, strategy, and intuition. But none of them matters if you are not able to calculate tactics properly, which at Super GM level means calculating variations at an incredible depth with insane accuracy. Which in turn means taking deep and long thinks at a time, a skill practically irrelevant in SC because, well, it is a real-time strategy game.
In contrast, SC success is mostly dependent on running mechanics and multitasking at a high velocity in real-time. Of course, there are other factors, too – build order choice, preparation, and so on, but mechanics at both the micro and macro level and multitasking are the necessary foundation. In a recent video Lambo mentioned that even if he achieves a practical build order win against Clem he will still probably lose because of Clem's absurd speed and mechanics. Which, in turn, are largely irrelevant in chess, because even if you have to blitz out some moves under time pressure, you're neither multitasking nor doing recurring micro/macro patterns in real time.
Carlsen would presumably still do reasonably well at SC because he is incredibly competitive and bright, but I do not think the analogies between chess and SC will carry him far.
On February 20 2025 00:55 Rob-Zero wrote: The overlapping skillset is not that big, especially in sc2 (compared to bw), mechanics are everything.
I agree. I think many are overestimating the similarities between chess and SC.
The single most important skill in chess is pure and raw calculation. Of course, there are many other factors – preparation, strategy, and intuition. But none of them matters if you are not able to calculate tactics properly, which at Super GM level means calculating variations at an incredible depth with insane accuracy. Which in turn means taking deep and long thinks at a time, a skill practically irrelevant in SC because, well, it is a real-time strategy game.
In contrast, SC success is mostly dependent on running mechanics and multitasking at a high velocity in real-time. Of course, there are other factors, too – build order choice, preparation, and so on, but mechanics at both the micro and macro level and multitasking are the necessary foundation. In a recent video Lambo mentioned that even if he achieves a practical build order win against Clem he will still probably lose because of Clem's absurd speed and mechanics. Which, in turn, are largely irrelevant in chess, because even if you have to blitz out some moves under time pressure, you're neither multitasking nor doing recurring micro/macro patterns in real time.
Carlsen would presumably still do reasonably well at SC because he is incredibly competitive and bright, but I do not think the analogies between chess and SC will carry him far.
Well, probably won't square this difference through chatter in an online forum, but I think it's a pretty common anecdotal experience to notice people who are very good at one game tend to be very good at others. For TL.net forum-goers, the BW-Poker pipeline should come readily to mind. The outcomes ranged from 'solid grinder' to 'multi-millionaire,' but those are all very good compared to the entirety of the poker-playing population.
Also, people tend to erroneously expand the physical requirements of BW/SC2 at the championship level down to the high-amateur level as well. There were PLENTY of very good Protoss players who got by on 150 APM and brains.
On February 20 2025 00:55 Rob-Zero wrote: The overlapping skillset is not that big, especially in sc2 (compared to bw), mechanics are everything.
I agree. I think many are overestimating the similarities between chess and SC.
The single most important skill in chess is pure and raw calculation. Of course, there are many other factors – preparation, strategy, and intuition. But none of them matters if you are not able to calculate tactics properly, which at Super GM level means calculating variations at an incredible depth with insane accuracy. Which in turn means taking deep and long thinks at a time, a skill practically irrelevant in SC because, well, it is a real-time strategy game.
In contrast, SC success is mostly dependent on running mechanics and multitasking at a high velocity in real-time. Of course, there are other factors, too – build order choice, preparation, and so on, but mechanics at both the micro and macro level and multitasking are the necessary foundation. In a recent video Lambo mentioned that even if he achieves a practical build order win against Clem he will still probably lose because of Clem's absurd speed and mechanics. Which, in turn, are largely irrelevant in chess, because even if you have to blitz out some moves under time pressure, you're neither multitasking nor doing recurring micro/macro patterns in real time.
Carlsen would presumably still do reasonably well at SC because he is incredibly competitive and bright, but I do not think the analogies between chess and SC will carry him far.
Well, probably won't square this difference through chatter in an online forum, but I think it's a pretty common anecdotal experience to notice people who are very good at one game tend to be very good at others. For TL.net forum-goers, the BW-Poker pipeline should come readily to mind. The outcomes ranged from 'solid grinder' to 'multi-millionaire,' but those are all very good compared to the entirety of the poker-playing population.
True, but I think this is less because of similarities between those games and more because of similarities between those people. People who get good at SC tend to be competitive, consistent in training, open to critical feedback, willing to improve, analytical in their treatment of the theory of the game, and so on.
In short, what people who are good at SC transfer to other games is, in my view, mostly the ability to get good at games. This is not to deny that there are substantial overlaps too (one of the reasons why I originally got into SC was actually the similarity between build orders and chess openings), but I do not think these can account for much of the co-success in separate games.
I mostly agree that at this point, it would be difficult for Magnus to achieve pro-level play in SC2, even if he went full-time. I do not doubt that he could hit GM if he went full-time. As a hobby? Probably low/mid-masters. Would love to be proved wrong.
However, I do think that there might be a reasonable amount of transferability between unit micromanagement and speed chess. In both settings, you have to rapidly adjust to what your opponent has just done, and continue to try to shape the contours of the board/map. It would be a lateral move, mentally speaking, but not a very large one.
Playing multiple chess games at once is also a little bit like the micro/macro task-splitting that we do in SC2.
EPT
