• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:47
CEST 15:47
KST 22:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202535RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 977 users

Legacy of the Void: Multiplayer Development Update - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
680 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 35 Next All
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
December 18 2014 09:29 GMT
#281
On December 18 2014 18:26 `dunedain wrote:
Herc:

No longer effective for cost

What the actual fuck? Why build it at all then?


I think it means that the HERC will not be a good unit for simply massing and A-moving. I don't think they're saying that it's going to be shit, just that you won't be massing it like you would marines or tanks.
AdministratorBreak the chains
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
December 18 2014 09:33 GMT
#282
On December 18 2014 18:26 `dunedain wrote:
Herc:

No longer effective for cost

What the actual fuck? Why build it at all then?

You'd probably only use it for tactical stuff, like knocking back/absorbing banelings or sneaking into an enemy worker line.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
MoonFan
Profile Joined July 2013
Vietnam55 Posts
December 18 2014 09:36 GMT
#283
sneaking into an enemy worker line.

And what then without AoE?
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
December 18 2014 09:36 GMT
#284
On December 18 2014 18:36 MoonFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
sneaking into an enemy worker line.

And what then without AoE?

Oh, I don't know. I forgot about the lack of AoE for a minute.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Enigmasc
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom147 Posts
December 18 2014 09:40 GMT
#285
OMG zergs now getting AA :D
no longer gona be shoehorned into mass queen infestor to beat soemthing like a voidspam will be good to see
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-18 09:45:45
December 18 2014 09:42 GMT
#286
I get the feeling that LotV is going to be quite boring. They are doing the same mistake they made with WoL and HotS. They come up with crazy, fun ideas at first (to creat a hype train and sell the game probably) and then they ruin everything by scraping the craziest ideas and keeping the boring ones. People remember a game for the crazy things you can do when playing it, in ten years from now no one will say "remember this time when blizzard split apart the mech and air upgrades ? xDDD Damn I wish today's game devs could take such crazy decisions !".

Just take anything from there and throw it into the game pls
rly ?
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24194 Posts
December 18 2014 09:46 GMT
#287
On December 18 2014 15:03 insitelol wrote:
I don't like a thing about Lotv...
Call me paranoid, but i think this all is entirely a wrong direction. Game already has shitloads of units and strategies that leads to randomness and unconsistency. But looks like blizzard is ok with that, as all they seem to care about is crowd reactions like "omg mine shoot all the probes/mutas/banes etc". All these new units (and Hots units like oracle and viper) remind me of some mediocre moba. BUT THIS IS RTS. Stop adding niche units with fancy micro mechanics!! They should remove units from the game, not add them. In Lotv each race will have like 15-16 playable units wtf?!! Is this Total Annihilation? Or starcraft?



I agree the number of units seems really high and their obsession with MOBA-like abilities for every unit bothers me.
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
December 18 2014 09:51 GMT
#288
I wish blizzard would stop give each and every unit a spell or an ability. Just make units with different speed, attack range, damage, armor value ... and there you have it. A great game. I don't want to play starcraft-moba-of-legend.
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
December 18 2014 09:56 GMT
#289
On December 18 2014 18:51 aXa wrote:
I wish blizzard would stop give each and every unit a spell or an ability. Just make units with different speed, attack range, damage, armor value ... and there you have it. A great game. I don't want to play starcraft-moba-of-legend.

different cost and production time too, I totally agree there
rly ?
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
December 18 2014 10:09 GMT
#290
Holy cow they think the new protoss unit should be a slow harasser (lolwut) that is not effective for the cost and becomes invulnerable while it does harass... Seems doable and the kinda unit everyone will love.

Everything else is fine I guess.
Revolutionist fan
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24194 Posts
December 18 2014 10:14 GMT
#291
Resource changes
First, we’d like to give an update on the resource changes we showed at Blizzcon. In that build, resources were reduced to 70% of what they currently are in Heart of the Swarm. From our playtesting, we really liked that this set-up encouraged players to move out more and take expansions more aggressively which led to action packed games. One element we were still concerned about was the potential diminished importance of harassment since workers were being transferred much earlier. Since Blizzcon, we’ve looked at changes that keep the positive aspect of encouraging players to take more bases, while still providing incentives to harass bases in various locations. The change we are currently testing is as follows:

Half of the mineral patches have 1500 (same as HotS), and the other half has 750.
Gas is at 75% of total.
The main things we like with this change so far are:

Players are still encouraged to move out and take bases aggressively.
There are still reasons to harass most of the bases since they remain operational at half efficiency.
Macro on bases and transferring workers throughout the game becomes more meaningful and more rewarding to players who do this better.
We currently feel like this solution help resolve the main negative side of the change we proposed at Blizzcon, but we’ve only been testing this for a few weeks, so we can’t say with 100% certainty. We’d definitely like to hear your thoughts in this area.


It's mostly nonsense. They're mixing up "encouraged to" and "forced to". There should be incentives to expand, that's interesting and allows players with good positioning and game sense to get an advantage out of it. But players should not be forced to expand everywhere because their resources are just running out.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3374 Posts
December 18 2014 10:33 GMT
#292
I love the scrappy feel the new minerals will give, it's the struggle for resources. They now tell players in a more 'mild' manner, you will need to expand soon, instead of the hard cap with same minerals on each patch.
Terran will also not screw themselves over with the MULE, since you now have dedicated MULE patches.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
sushiman
Profile Joined September 2003
Sweden2691 Posts
December 18 2014 10:34 GMT
#293
On December 18 2014 19:09 Salteador Neo wrote:
Holy cow they think the new protoss unit should be a slow harasser (lolwut) that is not effective for the cost and becomes invulnerable while it does harass... Seems doable and the kinda unit everyone will love.

Everything else is fine I guess.

It sounds almost exactly like the disruptor, just on a different tier. The imagination at their design department must be completely drained or something; I mean, they've been working on the Protoss campaign for quite some time now, surely there must be more unit concepts in there they could convert to multiplayer other than something phasing in and out and is another damn harasser?
1000 at least.
FrozenProbe
Profile Joined March 2012
Italy276 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-18 10:48:04
December 18 2014 10:36 GMT
#294
Neat changes, especially the economy one. It basically give you time to expand while you're at full economy on one base (16 workers on minerals), then you've to transfer half of them remaining at 8 workers in the main base and 16 on the natural, then again, 8 - 8 - 16 and so on. I think it will promote towards more natural expansion patterns but at the same time it will descourage excessive turtling.

I will discuss only the changes I don't agree with:

MSC

No, thanks. Instead on get the easy-way and drop again a one-click ability to help protoss players defend, why don't you try to resolve the problem at its roots? It would benefit the entire protoss race.

Aside of just removing it, why don't you return to the first design of the MSC? Remember way back in the HotS beta when that thing was an extention of a nexus? That was freaking cool, it was way better designed than this slow and useless or broken ball. I will refresh your memory:

- The MSC was attached to a nexus, you had ana ability to transfer it from a nexus to another one
- The nexus cannon was possible to use only on the nexus with the MSC on it and if you had a cannon activated your MSC was in a sort of "stasis", so you hadn't the ability to use two nexus cannons at the same time.
- The MSC had the ability to recall the units on the nexus, from distance, that was really cool because you had the opportunity to get aggressive with a bunch of fast units (blink stalkers uh?) and save them all recalling into a nexus, you could have done multi pronged attacks with two groups of blink stalkers, like blink on the main of your opponent, drag attention, attack with another group and teleport at home the first group. That was cool, not the current one that promotes a deathball play or an allin-ish play because the MSC is just too slow.
- The energy refill ability, I really don't get why they removed it after a couple of weeks. That was so cool, you could've used to the nexus to have more chronoboost, to a sentry to have more forcefields, to a templar to have a fast psi-storm, but it was just one, not an AoE refill, it costed MSC's energy (so no nexus cannon, nor recall) and you had to be near to the MSC (so to a nexus) to use it.

I still think that the first design was way better than the actual one, they felt that it wasn't like a unit because was attached to the nexus, and this is one of the worst motivations that I've ever read from Blizz.


New Toss Unit

So basically you want to add the disruptor to the protoss arsenal, ok, and then you want to add a mini-disruptor? Why?

Instead of giving another harass-unit that will develop into stupid one base proxy or something like that, design a reliable, core unit for the protoss army that isn't high-tier/high-cost and could lead to a more skirmish-play from the protoss players. I got really tired to be unable to fight basic T/Z compositions until I don't have AoE, even a bunch of speedlings can contain a protoss on two bases.. that's really unenjoyable.

In those developer updates and at the Blizzcon panel, they focused down on key problems of the protoss race. They feel that the forcefields are a problem and so they designed more and more counters to them and that's fine, then they nerfed the warpins, and you know I'm still fine with that.. but they gave nothing to early game protoss units in compensation. So basically in an expansion that will lead towards a more spreaded and skirmished play protoss players will be even more weak into the early-mid game and what the new protoss unit is?

A big ball that deals big splash damage and require t3 infrastructures and costs 300 gas..

I'm not upset about the unit, I've used it in the Alpha mod and is great.. it is really fun, maybe a little too powerful, but I like the high-risk high-reward thing. Still I don't get why we've still sentries and Colossi if forcefields will be countered hard and colossi will be nerfed to the ground (or we will still use them, or into a more correct way, we will still be forced to use them). Every aspect of the protoss race that is pointed out from the community as bullshit from the SC2 beta will be addressed in LotV, but why don't Blizzard want to get cocky and redesign it from scratch, remove the colossus, remove the sentry.. let's redesign gateway tech and robo tech in order to make them more fun and less gimmicky deathball or allin centric. You added back the Lurker? Fuck, give back the Reaver! Is it slow as fuck and you think that it won't be good without micro? That's what a unit with so much AoE should be, easy to pickoff but devastating if used well (and with skill). Fuck the sentry and give a microable gateway unit that will stand against basic T/Z compositions. It is too strong with Warp Gate? Fuck warpgate, let this unit be built only from gateways

Blizzard has the tools to change a lot, they're just too scared. Go totally insane with the changes, you're in pre-Alpha, if you aren't insane now you won't be ever.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
December 18 2014 10:47 GMT
#295
On December 18 2014 18:51 aXa wrote:
I wish blizzard would stop give each and every unit a spell or an ability. Just make units with different speed, attack range, damage, armor value ... and there you have it. A great game. I don't want to play starcraft-moba-of-legend.

definitely agree, this is becoming a mess
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
FrozenProbe
Profile Joined March 2012
Italy276 Posts
December 18 2014 10:49 GMT
#296
On December 18 2014 18:51 aXa wrote:
I wish blizzard would stop give each and every unit a spell or an ability. Just make units with different speed, attack range, damage, armor value ... and there you have it. A great game. I don't want to play starcraft-moba-of-legend.


StarCraft: Defense of the Legends of the Storm
KelvaroN
Profile Joined May 2003
Finland33 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-18 10:51:54
December 18 2014 10:50 GMT
#297
Just a thought, but... BRING BACK THE REAVER!! :D *BBBBOOOOMMM!!!*

Edit: someone already mentioned it, sorry!
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
December 18 2014 11:01 GMT
#298
On December 18 2014 19:50 KelvaroN wrote:
Just a thought, but... BRING BACK THE REAVER!! :D *BBBBOOOOMMM!!!*

Edit: someone already mentioned it, sorry!

Not someone, but everyone, for thousand times. :D

But to be honest, Disruptor is pretty fun and good unit that requires quite a bit of skill to use and is really close to Reaver when used with Warp Prism. It is more like an Scarab from Reaver, but it still has the same effect.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
nubHunter
Profile Joined July 2014
Spain44 Posts
December 18 2014 11:04 GMT
#299
at this point idc if they bring back the warhound.
RaFox17
Profile Joined May 2013
Finland4581 Posts
December 18 2014 11:06 GMT
#300
On December 18 2014 11:05 Big J wrote:
Protoss Gateway unit idea, lorewise it is Nerazim

*insert Protoss name*
*some Ninja skin with some Psi-Shuriken or similar*
Cost 75/75/2
80HP/20Shield/0armor, light, biological
Attack: Damage 15(+2), Cooldown: 1.5
Attack range 5, ground only
speed: 3.0 (like a speed roach)
size: like a zealot
drop-size: 2

Auto-Cast ability, 6second cooldown: When attacking, the *Ninja Super Trooper* immidiately performs a second attack.
tech requirement: twilight council

Stats Analysis:
good damage output: 13.75 dps, good burst (due to the double attack at the beginning of a combat), good upgrading
can't take many hits, so it has bad tanking for the Colossus
mediocre range, so only zealots and archons can tank reasonably for it
quite mobile, so it can roam the map a lot
does not go well with usual deathball units like stalkers and Colossi due to standing in front of the stalkers

Strategically:
The unit does synergize very well with zealots and can kill enemy workers and stray units very fast. The high-burst damage (30 on the first shot) makes it very good in the midnumbers against Terran bio units, because the bio-units can get bursted down before the medivac-heal takes full effect.
From a cost-balance point of view, the unit cannot be massed on its own in early rushes, because of the high gas:mineral ratio. It's weakness are faster units such as zerglings or hellions that can close the distance and force it into combat, however, due to the high damage output they can still take a good amount of enemies with them into the grave.
It should offer Protoss players an alternative ranged combat and harassment unit to the stalker, with a very contrasting approach in gameplay.

Tactically:
The unit can be microed against very well due to the 5range and sniped very fast. However, with a reasonable zealot buffer the unit can dish out its high burst damage and then use its high speed to fall back until more zealots arrive.
While it doesn't quite bring the same longterm damage output onto the battlefield as marines or hydralisks, the high burst damage allows it to quickly overwhelm enemy forces to fight another day.

Thumbs up!
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 35 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 2
Reynor vs MaruLIVE!
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
EWC_Arena9218
ComeBackTV 2557
TaKeTV 524
Hui .484
3DClanTV 309
Rex216
EnkiAlexander 191
CranKy Ducklings180
mcanning145
Reynor118
UpATreeSC95
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena9218
Hui .484
Rex 216
mcanning 145
Reynor 118
UpATreeSC 95
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 3856
Barracks 1938
Flash 1649
BeSt 1583
Jaedong 1523
EffOrt 1111
Stork 601
Mini 576
ggaemo 435
Snow 283
[ Show more ]
Soma 280
ZerO 259
Soulkey 258
ToSsGirL 255
GuemChi 250
Dewaltoss 128
Rush 124
Hyun 121
TY 60
soO 59
Sacsri 46
sorry 40
JulyZerg 38
scan(afreeca) 26
Yoon 11
ivOry 10
Movie 10
Bale 9
Terrorterran 9
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc4603
XcaliburYe279
420jenkins218
syndereN135
Counter-Strike
sgares588
oskar230
edward36
Super Smash Bros
Westballz30
Other Games
singsing2118
hiko1358
B2W.Neo916
crisheroes417
Fuzer 166
ArmadaUGS71
QueenE39
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH296
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV564
League of Legends
• Nemesis3526
• TFBlade326
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
20h 13m
TBD vs Zoun
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs ShoWTimE
TBD vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 21h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.