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On December 18 2014 07:21 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:18 TheDwf wrote:On December 18 2014 07:16 SatedSC2 wrote:
The more I hear, the less I like.
Between this and the map-pool going back to the horror that was season 3, I'm finding it very hard to get motivated to play... It's just for two weeks, you know. Yep. Two weeks. The two weeks where I don't have work because I'm off for the Christmas period, and not the last two weeks where I haven't had time to play at all. EDIT: I can't play in the WCS qualifiers because they're all scheduled on work-days and at a time that fucks over Britain specifically (not that I would qualify, but it's fun to test yourself!); I can't play over Christmas unless I'm prepared to play on maps that I hate; and Legacy of the Void is going to be god-awful if they continue down this path. It's not been a good week for SC2 news if you're me.
Honestly it seems as though you're predisposed towards negativity here, Blizz are clearly trying to step up their game and react to community concerns within the framework of technical issues and a rigorous QA process.
Sure, it's not going to be perfect for everyone but you need to look at it critically, for everyone, not just moaning about your own circumstances.
Most people who have been playing this season are OVER dreampool. S3 maps with a change to brand new map pool in a couple weeks is fantastic.
The LotV design changes are interesting and no-one, not even Blizzard, are qualified to remark on how fun or exciting, or how well or poorly thought out and designed it is, until we've got a huge amount of testing in from top players.
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On December 18 2014 05:42 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 04:03 fruity. wrote:
Oh blizzard, maybe you do have a PR department after all.
Coincidence this came out one day ofter Destiny's blog? I think not.
Interesting to see the changes their working on, and their thoughts going forward. Posts like this one take days or weeks to prepare, edit, get sent over to the web team for processing where they wait in a queue. Destiny's blog most likely had nothing to do with this.
And yet the grammar makes me want to stab myself in the eye.
lol
Hi, by the way. How are you Excal?
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On December 18 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:
What changes would you have made?
more broodwar
- Zerg need more AntiAir splash? Scourges. (Add some AoE splash, like flying banelings)
Lots of awesome micro ability there
- Protoss need a new unit? Reavers.
Lots of awesome micro ability there.
- Terran Cyclone has no idea what it's meant to be? Vultures.
Lots of awesome micro ability there.
Instead of coming up with new unit designs that don't work well or have very specific uses, don't be afraid of importing fully-fledged existing units that work really well, everyone loves, and have a lot of uses.
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On December 18 2014 07:33 Whitewing wrote:
Blizzard is going about this expansion thing the wrong way. Rather than reducing the minerals in each patch, they should be reducing the amount of patches at each base, meaning saturation is fewer workers. This encourages more expanding to take advantage of the extra supply: suddenly you can make use of 4 or 5 bases simultaneously rather than just holding extra for when you run out in your other bases. The current form simply punishes players for not expanding, rather than rewarding them for doing so.
It also unnecessarily punishes players for falling behind. Come-backs become much harder when you can't build up for a while, try to take favorable engagements, and slowly expand. You run out of money before you can rebuild now, meaning one fight is more likely than ever to kill you. Reducing mineral patches will reduce income rates overall at the start of the game and will encourage more, but smaller, engagements and make deathballing harder and maxing out slower. The current system they are using will just make the game even more of a one and done.
I agree with these points. Though, the gas would still need to be lowered or tweaked to fit with the less mineral patches. I remember a mod that went with one high-yield vespene geyser and less mineral patches. Not sure how it played out.
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The micro potential after all these changes is making me giddy.
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I'm not really a fan of the Viper DoT since it feels like a really weird version of Seeker Missile that they tried really hard to not make just another Seeker Missile, Irradiate, or Disintegration (New Tempest thingy). I hope they rework it to something a bit more original.
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"We heard your suggestions, but we decided we don't really care."
-Blizzard 2014
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On December 18 2014 07:39 14681 wrote:Show nested quote +
On December 18 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:
What changes would you have made?
more broodwar
- Zerg need more AntiAir splash? Scourges. (Add some AoE splash, like flying banelings) Lots of awesome micro ability there - Protoss need a new unit? Reavers. Lots of awesome micro ability there. - Terran Cyclone has no idea what it's meant to be? Vultures. Lots of awesome micro ability there. Instead of coming up with new unit designs that don't work well or have very specific uses, don't be afraid of importing fully-fledged existing units that work really well, everyone loves, and have a lot of uses.
I agree with you. But what's surprising is that in the few polls I've seen on TL asking whether Blizzard should bring back BW units, a substantial number of people don't like it, because they say "I can just play BW if I want to play w/ BW units." I think that mindset is flawed, but yeah...
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Sometimes I wonder if Blizzard really know what the hell they're doing. And I always come back to the same answer. They don't.
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Back to the "horror" of season 3 as opposed to the absolutely terrible dream pool? Hah.
While I like a lot of the changes they have made to the lotv build, their comments about protoss really concern and disappoint me. I made a post a while ago talking about how the resource change was going to be hard to adjust to for protoss, and that instead of re-tooling the race to be able to fight on multiple fronts on its own accord, blizzard would probably try to find the solution in niche buffs and other stupid mechanics. In their post, they acknowledge that protoss is having the hardest time with the new resource changes, and un-nerf photon overcharge to help with this? Re-patching up the band-aid that was introduced in HOTS, eh Blizzard? A band-aid that only works in the early / mid game and falls apart in the late game due to the sheer base count with the new resource changes.
This basically shows me that they have no plans on reworking forcefield, or rebalancing the race to not be entirely dependent on slow moving T3 splash units. Makes me sad.
News flash Blizzard! Protoss has trouble defending multiple bases because they can't go toe to toe with other races T1/T2 cost for cost in the mid/late game without their T3 splash! T3 splash is expensive to tech to, expensive and time consuming to get, vulnerable without proper support, and slow moving.... hence the existence of the deathball! That is why it is hard to split up a toss army into multiple chunks for defense. An immobile army that is weak in small numbers. Sounds like a disaster to me.
What Blizzard should be doing is trying to rework the race to be more viable across many bases, and less encouraged to be in one giant deathball. With the addition of the disruptor, toss has 3 T3 splash options now (4 with archons I guess), and 0 before that. I don't see why Blizz can't remove a unit like the colossus, and add a new one at the T1.5-T2 level with lower damage, lower radius splash. I also don't see why they can't try to add a new gateway unit / buff existing gateway units, and in turn change the cancer that is forcefield / offensive warpgates.
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12 workers is ridiculous…even 10 is a little high, you cut out so much variability earlier (6 pool? 10 gate? 11/11?) I would like to start with 8, but id settle for 10
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As a terran player I have to say mules are going to be more imbalanced if their are fewer mineral patches(ie half of them run out first so the other races cant fully saturate) right? or am I wrong?
I think they should just evenly distribute the minerals between patches
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From here:
On November 18 2014 22:22 ejozl wrote:
What if the Mineral patch was divided into three depletion levels, lets say Bountiful, Fair, Scarce
If a mineral patch is Bountiful, it means your worker returns 5 minerals pr. trip.
If a mineral patch is Fair, it means your worker returns 4 minerals pr. trip.
If a mineral patch is Scarce, it means your worker returns 3 minerals pr. trip.
At 1500->1000 Minerals it's Bountiful, 1000->500 Minerals it's Fair, 500->0 Minerals it's Scarce.
100 trips to earn the first 500 Minerals.
125 trips to earn the second 500 Minerals.
167 trips to earn the last 500 Minerals.
It means there's still 1500 Minerals on a patch that you can earn from it.
You still get fast into the midgame, unlike changing the amount of patches. But this way there's this incentive to take new bases that a lot of you talk about, instead of getting snowballed into defeat, if you can get no mining base for a while.
I think this is a sweet compromise and actually fit the changing model for the Mineral Field when it gets to look more depleted the more you mine from it.
I wonder if Blizzard was inspired by this post to come up with the 1500/750 solution, since it has some similarities.
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Disruptor was a really cool idea, its insane vs zerg whilst in combination with a warp prism, but protoss def dont need another harass unit. THEY NEED A MIDGAME UNIT to either help them get through there or allows them to be aggressive in midgame
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blizzard should just copy starbow mod and make it official, and just tweak it a bit.
and fuck this.
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We feel this will give some more variety to Protoss openings, since Protoss generally tends to play defensively. If you have good ideas or feedback in this area, it would be appreciated.
We’re currently exploring a very different type of harassing unit. We don’t yet have the specific details yet but these are the things we’re thinking right now:
Wait... Do they mean in just LotV testing, or in general...? Because Protoss has what I consider the most variety in openings. Terran would be second, but with the MSC, most aggressive openers by T/Z are shutdown by default. All they really have is the widow mine builds.
I don't know why Blizzard is obsessed with giving Protoss harass units. Harass units are not fun to play against. Ever. They are just annoying and don't tend to add much to the game. What the oracle added to the game was limiting Terrans so that they HAD to go certain build paths to be able to defend against the possible oracle -- and even when they did prepare for an oracle, the oracle should always still do some damage (indirectly or directly).
Other than that, they seem to have a good idea on what to do -- better than HotS imo.
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On December 18 2014 06:52 DinoMight wrote:
Also I don't understand what they're doing.
1) Upgrades should be meaningful.
2) Removes a core Immortal ability and makes it an upgrade.
-_____- ???
How about make the extended WP range thing an upgrade to address balance issues?
The whole point of Immortals is that they're tough. Without any sort of special shields or abilities they're pretty useless (Mortals).
That isn't exactly what they meant about meaningful upgrades.
They mean for late game units, there shouldn't be any upgrades necessary, because that unit took until the lategame to build towards. They used Ultralisks as an example. Most zergs will have started research on Ultralisk armor upgrade along with the first batch of ultras. So that first batch will already have the upgrades. Giving ultralisks the armor from the beginning would only save 1-2 Ultras maybe. Not much of an impact on the game huh?
They want earlier units to need upgrades so there is some meaning and changes the dynamic of that unit. Making Immortal's hardened shield as an upgrade does that. Immortals before having the shield would essential become a ranged damage dealer. After you research that upgrade, it not only deals damage but can now absorb it.
Late game units don't need upgrades, because it took a long time to even get those units out. For crying out, Solar had his Ultras around 24 minutes against Yoda in The Fight Before Christmas.
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On December 18 2014 07:39 14681 wrote:
Instead of coming up with new unit designs that don't work well or have very specific uses, don't be afraid of importing fully-fledged existing units that work really well, everyone loves, and have a lot of uses.
This. Bring back Vessel & Defiler, and make Carrier relevant please!
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That thread made me genuinely sad, I felt gradually less and less pleased reading it.
LotV is going to be fine though.
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EPT
