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On December 14 2014 01:48 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 01:36 EndOfLineTv wrote:On December 14 2014 00:25 WGT-Baal wrote:On December 14 2014 00:01 Sjokola wrote:
The problem isn't with players having their MMR lowered due to decay.
Just the delay on being able to cue for a new game seems like a perfect solution. 3 games in a row under a minute? Take a 5 min break. 5 more in the last half hour? Come back in an hour and see if you can play normally. 3 more?! Now we're calling the internet police and put you in a room with just a horny dog. I dont know, I mean you can just remake. In Brood War you wouldnt usually play right away, there were lag issues, etc etc. But still it was fine. Sometimes your internet (or your opponent s) act up and it s unplayable so you just leave. You shouldnt be punished for that. there s also the problem of ranked vs unranked. I d rather see a return to BW era gamemaking along the ladder we have, where you can make a lobby and play. Add a feature like "counts for ladder" or something and let s roll. Of course with restrictions, like you cant play a given player more than 3 times or smthg. But it would allow people to select their maps and MU and desired skill level. On December 14 2014 00:16 EndOfLineTv wrote:
Some of these occurrences are from guys who get their account boosted, for a price, and don't pay up. So the booster will tank 30 games in a row. people do that? Really? Yep.... Kids ask me to boost their account on a daily basis. Some of my Gm friends boost for money all the time. They now ask to be paid in full Wow, that's really sad.
Still better than getting to higher leagues than what you deserve through maphacking.
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Well, here is one who leave games. Why do I do it? I am so tired of 4 years of SC2 with so few changes in some MU... I usually enter unranked and want to play TvZ, TvT or TvP. As there is no tool to look for specific MU, I need to leave games till find what I was looking for. I am low Diamond and sometimes even play real noobs. What can I do? Is really so difficult for Blizzard to créate a "Search MU" Button? I dont think so, but here we are after five years and still so difficult to practice. If you have no friends or are in some clan, how can you play 20 TvZs in a row if you want??? Impossible.
Imagine this: You are Protoss and want to play PvZ. Go hit the MU button with the option of PvZ and you will find only Zergs. May the wait be too big, but it will be worth it. Its better tan play 20 games with 10 Ts, 7 Ps and only 3 Zs, when you are looking only for TvZ.
I watch streams and every tournament and want to practice. The A.I. is not worth it, so I want a practice partner and is really difficult to find it because of our work or whatever. So I enter SC2 and look for TvP. If I leave 5 games (happens to me every day) I lose a lot of time. Instead I preffer to wait same time till find the MU I want.
Its not about farming. And I hate randoms...
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On December 14 2014 02:39 Dvriel wrote:
Well, here is one who leave games. Why do I do it? I am so tired of 4 years of SC2 with so few changes in some MU... I usually enter unranked and want to play TvZ, TvT or TvP. As there is no tool to look for specific MU, I need to leave games till find what I was looking for. I am low Diamond and sometimes even play real noobs. What can I do? Is really so difficult for Blizzard to créate a "Search MU" Button? I dont think so, but here we are after five years and still so difficult to practice. If you have no friends or are in some clan, how can you play 20 TvZs in a row if you want??? Impossible.
Imagine this: You are Protoss and want to play PvZ. Go hit the MU button with the option of PvZ and you will find only Zergs. May the wait be too big, but it will be worth it. Its better tan play 20 games with 10 Ts, 7 Ps and only 3 Zs, when you are looking only for TvZ.
I watch streams and every tournament and want to practice. The A.I. is not worth it, so I want a practice partner and is really difficult to find it because of our work or whatever. So I enter SC2 and look for TvP. If I leave 5 games (happens to me every day) I lose a lot of time. Instead I preffer to wait same time till find the MU I want.
Its not about farming. And I hate randoms...
Agreed, at least Unranked should have this option.
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I think the number of people "fooling" the mmr by purposely losing is way below the number of people behing hit by mmr decay tbh.
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MMR is just bad at the moment. Fooling is not the problem. I just doesn't match most people's strength, especially not casual players that are often inactive.
In the past it did match your strength (while the placement in the "league" had nothing to do with your MMR), now more than often it does match your activity.
As a casual who is often inactive and then starts again I used to be in Masters. Now every time I'm restarting I am in gold, kill most gold people that I almost feel bad for them and still not get promoted. Atm I'm again at 40w/10l as a Z in gold, I even had a 14 wins straight streak. Promotion? Of course nooo... still getting the same bad gold opponents. I'm probably the guy you would think of doing MMR fooling. But in reality the current MMR system is just bad. It forces people to either be really active or just don't play at all, because playing a few games each week doesn't get you anywhere even though you still might have the skill.
I guess if I played like above 100 games I would get promoted, but I just don't feel like grinding 100 games against opponents that are just not good enough to learn anything against. So I go to custom - or just stop playing again, frustrated by Match Making. I don't know why Blizzard can't learn what people motivates to play a game. Hint: An inactivity-punishing MMR system is NOT MOTIVATING AT ALL. Not for me and not for the people I get matched against... So Blizzard actually kills the fun of two people at once with this system.
Thanks.
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It's something I'm noticing too while ranking up as random on a second account (which was inactive). I started as diamond playing diamond opponents, I'm now 44-10 and I'm still diamond and playing diamond opponents. Furthermore, I NEVER got more than 12 points when I won, always around 6-7, and -17/-18 when I lost. The problem, imo, isn't how low you get placed because of MMR decay, but rather how hard it is to get back into your old mmr even when you're doing massing win streaks.
When you are inactive, they should fix it so that you can increase your MMR quickier, pretty much how it already is when you start on a completely fresh account, in that situation you can get from platinum to masters in like 20 games.
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On December 14 2014 02:50 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 02:39 Dvriel wrote:
Well, here is one who leave games. Why do I do it? I am so tired of 4 years of SC2 with so few changes in some MU... I usually enter unranked and want to play TvZ, TvT or TvP. As there is no tool to look for specific MU, I need to leave games till find what I was looking for. I am low Diamond and sometimes even play real noobs. What can I do? Is really so difficult for Blizzard to créate a "Search MU" Button? I dont think so, but here we are after five years and still so difficult to practice. If you have no friends or are in some clan, how can you play 20 TvZs in a row if you want??? Impossible.
Imagine this: You are Protoss and want to play PvZ. Go hit the MU button with the option of PvZ and you will find only Zergs. May the wait be too big, but it will be worth it. Its better tan play 20 games with 10 Ts, 7 Ps and only 3 Zs, when you are looking only for TvZ.
I watch streams and every tournament and want to practice. The A.I. is not worth it, so I want a practice partner and is really difficult to find it because of our work or whatever. So I enter SC2 and look for TvP. If I leave 5 games (happens to me every day) I lose a lot of time. Instead I preffer to wait same time till find the MU I want.
Its not about farming. And I hate randoms... Agreed, at least Unranked should have this option.
I like this Idea, then Unranked play would serve a good purpose....
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On December 14 2014 05:44 Zulu23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 02:50 rotta wrote:On December 14 2014 02:39 Dvriel wrote:
Well, here is one who leave games. Why do I do it? I am so tired of 4 years of SC2 with so few changes in some MU... I usually enter unranked and want to play TvZ, TvT or TvP. As there is no tool to look for specific MU, I need to leave games till find what I was looking for. I am low Diamond and sometimes even play real noobs. What can I do? Is really so difficult for Blizzard to créate a "Search MU" Button? I dont think so, but here we are after five years and still so difficult to practice. If you have no friends or are in some clan, how can you play 20 TvZs in a row if you want??? Impossible.
Imagine this: You are Protoss and want to play PvZ. Go hit the MU button with the option of PvZ and you will find only Zergs. May the wait be too big, but it will be worth it. Its better tan play 20 games with 10 Ts, 7 Ps and only 3 Zs, when you are looking only for TvZ.
I watch streams and every tournament and want to practice. The A.I. is not worth it, so I want a practice partner and is really difficult to find it because of our work or whatever. So I enter SC2 and look for TvP. If I leave 5 games (happens to me every day) I lose a lot of time. Instead I preffer to wait same time till find the MU I want.
Its not about farming. And I hate randoms... Agreed, at least Unranked should have this option. I like this Idea, then Unranked play would serve a good purpose....
MU Search would be a serious improvement for everyone looking to improve....
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On December 14 2014 05:56 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 05:44 Zulu23 wrote:On December 14 2014 02:50 rotta wrote:On December 14 2014 02:39 Dvriel wrote:
Well, here is one who leave games. Why do I do it? I am so tired of 4 years of SC2 with so few changes in some MU... I usually enter unranked and want to play TvZ, TvT or TvP. As there is no tool to look for specific MU, I need to leave games till find what I was looking for. I am low Diamond and sometimes even play real noobs. What can I do? Is really so difficult for Blizzard to créate a "Search MU" Button? I dont think so, but here we are after five years and still so difficult to practice. If you have no friends or are in some clan, how can you play 20 TvZs in a row if you want??? Impossible.
Imagine this: You are Protoss and want to play PvZ. Go hit the MU button with the option of PvZ and you will find only Zergs. May the wait be too big, but it will be worth it. Its better tan play 20 games with 10 Ts, 7 Ps and only 3 Zs, when you are looking only for TvZ.
I watch streams and every tournament and want to practice. The A.I. is not worth it, so I want a practice partner and is really difficult to find it because of our work or whatever. So I enter SC2 and look for TvP. If I leave 5 games (happens to me every day) I lose a lot of time. Instead I preffer to wait same time till find the MU I want.
Its not about farming. And I hate randoms... Agreed, at least Unranked should have this option. I like this Idea, then Unranked play would serve a good purpose.... MU Search would be a serious improvement for everyone looking to improve....
Yeah, that would be an awesome improvement...
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Since I changed from 1v1 ladder to 4v4 unranked, I dont have these problems anymore.
Earlier, MMA faker, hacker and everything else annoyed me, when I lost, i was stressed and my mindset gone bad and when I won I didnt care much. The game made less and less fun but I still enjoyed esport alot.
Then I just played unrankend 4v4, where no skill is needed, where you dont care if you lose ( my allies, like in MOBAs, just accuse your allies ) and you can use crazy shit tactics. The fun rises, who cares about losing and i got my fun again. And yeah, I can play random now, who cares I dont know how to toss, I can enjoy 100% of the game and not 33%.
Just start playing unranked 1v1 or 4v4, much more fun, less stress, who cares about all the flaws.
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What if you are the person winning 20+ games in a row in under 2 minutes each because people are leaving to tank there MMR? Does that mean you won't be able to click the play again button either? How would the system be able to differentiate ? -_- ...
Need to just have a better ladder system lol...
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OP, I have reasons to think that you you may be blowing it out of proportion. If encountering a player from 2-3 leagues above you happens like every third game or so, then surely that would require a solution. Fair. However, I'm certain that it's much less than that.
The Idea of making changes to ladder experience of all people because of that doesn't seem reasonable to me.
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On December 14 2014 07:24 GGzerG wrote:
What if you are the person winning 20+ games in a row in under 2 minutes each because people are leaving to tank there MMR? Does that mean you won't be able to click the play again button either? How would the system be able to differentiate ? -_- ....
Well, that would be a pain, too but I don't see this happen because you would never be matched vs. a tanking person so many times in a row. The penalty shall apply only to the person that quits the game early, and not to the winning person.
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When the OP first posted this, I had not met this problem but wholeheartedly agreed it is a problem, but for the past few days I'm lucky if i don't meet a diamond (or master) player ranked this season in gold or platinum.
Sadly, while I doubt anything will happen to try and fix this in one way or another, I still have to say it's pretty disheartening to constantly meet players that are obviously better than you just because they decided to drop to a lower league and troll people.
Funnily though a few of them are pretty bad, but still not bad enough to lose in a lower league too often, since I won 2 games and lost at least 3 due to micro mistakes or bad decision making while the rest were stomps, however they are obviously good enough to make the difference if needed, I mean they did get to that much higher league in the first place after all, so that skill is not going to just miraculously go away just because now they chose to play in a much lower league.
So if this seems to be the only way ladder can be played nowadays, I think that people will continue to lose interest in the game and the viewership will continue to go down in tournaments due to people feeling no longer any appeal towards a game that only brought frustration. 
There could be many more things said, like for example how while different games have way more BM during matches they still have lots of people both playing and watching tournaments or how that BM or trolling seems to have an opposite effect on the players.
I guess if we want to have a future as players in the lower part of the ladder, someone will say we just have to get better by hitting that concrete wall in both skill gap and decision making that separates us from the higher part of the ladder until the wall gets bored with us and falls on its own accord.
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This is so awkward, I don't want to flame, but it's so bad, I could not keep it.
Situation: I started playing ranked again today. I have a solid 8:4 Winrate, I'm in Gold, last season I was in Platinum, never close to diamond skill and I can't win a straightforward game vs. my diamond friends.
My last two games I lost during the last sesson, The first ladder match I got was a TvT, against a Diamond Terran... ok, I said f***ing Matchmaking, he said he was decayed system.... sure....
Next game I was against a Platinum Random Player who cheesed the sh** out of me. Ok seems the system tests my MMR, maybe I get promoted soon.. I still have 8:6 Winrate....
Now 3rd Game today. I get a Gold player, he plays unranked... ok. a new account even probably a very new player (Level8) and I won ezpz....
After the game I saw he was indeed at least on a new account, his 10th 1v1 game (unranked only) he lost 8 of his 10 Games and HE WAS FAVORED....
That's pretty nasty.... I mean shall I buy a new account to get a better MMR?
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On December 12 2014 23:59 Zulu23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 23:41 tar wrote:
or the algorithm could just be adjusted to ignore any game shorter than say 3 in-game minutes for calculating MMR. Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 23:57 Tuczniak wrote:
... Maybe. But a lot better way would be to not count games shorter than 1 minute to MMR. Then there are still players who want to be annoying by leaving games against races they don't like to play. I would say this would worse the problem even... because then anybody would be enabled to leave any game without consequence when they don't play against the race they want to, or not playing the race they want while playing random....
I dont play vs Protoss if I dont want to. And noone can force me to play vs Protoss.
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I played a TON when HotS launched and was able to get into masters for 2 seasons. I play a lot less, and my skill at playing has decayed (but switching from playing on a desktop to a laptop didn't help either). Now my MMR should be around plat but I'm stuck in diamond because I play too many games for my MMR to reset but not enough to put me in plat.
Not all of this is intentional. Also like others said, the shrinking player pool and people playing unranked really mess with things. I tried switching races and played around an unranked gold MMR despite having a ranked diamond border. You get a lot of complaints "why are they putting me against diamonds?" or "Of course you're gonna win, you're diamond."
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This is the way it is im afraid, i dont agree with ur coolddown tho. im a solid plat player, ive played thousands and thousands of games. When i get holidays like right now i leave my league and climgb back up through gold, back to the top of my plat league and i start hitting lots of dias and master players even with the gold template. I dont care about my rank really i wish i could get rid of the starter screen showing the portraits, i use that button in game.
i do this cos i dont want to know what league the other guy is in, nor do i click on the profiles after games, i just dont care at all.
the cool down thing tho, not a great idea. right now im really struggling with terran and atm the games against them are good, but come the start of last season and the reverted wm buff i never saw them it was zvzvzvzvzvzvzvzvzvz zvp, i would leave some of the zvz games, even though its my fav matchup, i wanted to prac against p and t. So no, the cooldown would just limit my play or id have to keep swapping regions.
For me the way around this is to have a veto system like with maps except you can choose one race you want mm to prefer, have this in unranked play as yopu dont want to fuck up the ladders with people playing a mu they are good at, it wont be fair, in ur however who gives a fuck
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MMR is really scewed nowadays. I was playing a game the other day ranked as diamond and I was matched against a guy who was level 5 and he had absolutely no idea what he was doing. Did some one base roach drop against me which obviously failed. These sorts of games do not happen frequently but even Blizz should know better than to let these anomalies creep up.
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People Tanking down the MMR are killing the game, because they are simply destroying the fun on the game for the other player... Why? Playing versus a obvius much to good opponent is a waste of time...
Sadly you see I only right after the score screen in the profile of the opponent.... I mean 300APM in Gold leauge is supisions, and then 7x Master it was a game lost from the start...
This behavour kills the enthusiasm in the community, and the game will not be uphold for 5000 professional players.
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EPT
