• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:01
CET 02:01
KST 10:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage14Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage List of top players active on ShieldBattery BW General Discussion screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread!
Tourneys
[BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll
Strategy
Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13834 users

Legacy of the Void Announced - Page 45

Forum Index > SC2 General
2977 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 149 Next
RDaneelOlivaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Vatican City State733 Posts
November 08 2014 00:27 GMT
#881
It's a small thing but it would be really fantastic if they implemented race-picking for LotV
jojos11
Profile Joined March 2014
Korea (North)314 Posts
November 08 2014 00:28 GMT
#882
some of these units are pretty imba imo,especially zerg ones. protoss are kinda boring
Diaresta
Profile Joined February 2012
United States597 Posts
November 08 2014 00:28 GMT
#883
Lurkers back, and Reavers back as Disruptors. The new units look interesting, but I'm not too crazy about starting with 12 workers.

Hopefully the game delivers. Looking alright so far, and I'm excited.
@Diaresta Huk//Jaedong//Taeja ★EGTL★ ♥Stephano♥ | "Agent 3154, welcome back."
Arolis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States496 Posts
November 08 2014 00:28 GMT
#884
On November 08 2014 09:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 09:02 alpenrahm wrote:
On November 08 2014 08:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On November 08 2014 08:54 Darkthorn wrote:
On November 08 2014 04:45 Charoisaur wrote:
On November 08 2014 04:43 kusto wrote:
On November 08 2014 04:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Sry bu this sounds terrible. not buying lotv if this is true


Oh yes you will.

the unit changes could be ok.
but the economy changes sound like they will kill sc2.
seriously why change it? we had always 6 starting workers no reason to change it

and reward micro more than macro.


I would actually hate it. I like to think of SC as the macro game and of WC as the micro game. I think SC should stay much more macro focused, while of course rewarding great micro as much as possible.


the reduction from 16 down to 12 only means that your production rate is cut down to 75%. You will still be making much more units then in Warcraft, its not like they are going to introduce upkeep. In my opinion this is a slick move to shift the overall focus of the game.


Yeah but that's what I mean, I hope macro remains the focus of the game rather than micro.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be more like SC:BW? People complained about the volume of mining done by a single base in this game since beta and complained that the army build up is so much faster than BW that mid-game fights are dominated by 150ish food or higher armies compared to the midgame armies of BW which were much smaller. Getting to 200/200 in a BW game was a big deal. It'd be nice if it was actually a big deal in SC2 instead of an every game occurrence.

Going for something like a Hydra bust vs. Protoss might not even see 100 food reached by either army before the game ended in BW. Comparative to the early HotS Zergling/Baneling/Roach to bust a fast third vs. Terran. You need a crap-ton more units to make that attack.
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
November 08 2014 00:29 GMT
#885
On November 08 2014 09:15 Shinespark wrote:
Literally less than 5% of this post will survive to the final version of LotV, so I don't see any reason to get excited.


I beg to differ. Less than 5% means nothing in this post will make it into the final version. I'd be willing to bet a sizeable amount of money, that atleast a single new unit will make it into the final version.
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
November 08 2014 00:29 GMT
#886
Do hercs have stim?
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-08 00:30:50
November 08 2014 00:30 GMT
#887
wrong thread sorry
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
November 08 2014 00:31 GMT
#888
On November 08 2014 09:28 Arolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 09:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On November 08 2014 09:02 alpenrahm wrote:
On November 08 2014 08:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On November 08 2014 08:54 Darkthorn wrote:
On November 08 2014 04:45 Charoisaur wrote:
On November 08 2014 04:43 kusto wrote:
On November 08 2014 04:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Sry bu this sounds terrible. not buying lotv if this is true


Oh yes you will.

the unit changes could be ok.
but the economy changes sound like they will kill sc2.
seriously why change it? we had always 6 starting workers no reason to change it

and reward micro more than macro.


I would actually hate it. I like to think of SC as the macro game and of WC as the micro game. I think SC should stay much more macro focused, while of course rewarding great micro as much as possible.


the reduction from 16 down to 12 only means that your production rate is cut down to 75%. You will still be making much more units then in Warcraft, its not like they are going to introduce upkeep. In my opinion this is a slick move to shift the overall focus of the game.


Yeah but that's what I mean, I hope macro remains the focus of the game rather than micro.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be more like SC:BW? People complained about the volume of mining done by a single base in this game since beta and complained that the army build up is so much faster than BW that mid-game fights are dominated by 150ish food or higher armies compared to the midgame armies of BW which were much smaller. Getting to 200/200 in a BW game was a big deal. It'd be nice if it was actually a big deal in SC2 instead of an every game occurrence.

Going for something like a Hydra bust vs. Protoss might not even see 100 food reached by either army before the game ended in BW. Comparative to the early HotS Zergling/Baneling/Roach to bust a fast third vs. Terran. You need a crap-ton more units to make that attack.


I don't know anything about BW sorry .
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
November 08 2014 00:31 GMT
#889
--- Nuked ---
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
November 08 2014 00:31 GMT
#890
What I really don't understand about some of these changes is what problems with the game they are trying to fix. I feel like blizzard shouldn't make changes just for the sake of changing something, but they should rather find brilliant solutions to problems that exist in the gameplay.

For example, I can see where they want to go with economy changes, carriers and tank buff, swarm host and immortal changes, etc. But why exactly are they adding the herc? The cyclone? Did they really have to change the tempest, the oracle and nerf warpgate?

Guess we're discussing too much about it since the game won't come out in less than one year, but still...
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
November 08 2014 00:31 GMT
#891
http://blizzard.com

Blizz homepage now has WoW, Heroes, Overwatch, and SC2, for those complaining it didn't have SC2 before.
Hemling
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden93 Posts
November 08 2014 00:32 GMT
#892
IS THIS REAL LIFE?

The lurker announcement seriously gave me flashbacks from when i was 12y and i ran lurker drop rush every game on bnet! (yes i was a noob cheese kid with maphack back then lol)
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/246845/1/Hemligt/
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
November 08 2014 00:32 GMT
#893
On November 08 2014 09:19 Colston wrote:
I can understand all of you not wanting to see the 12 worker change, I mean, if they'd implement that we'd all lose those 3 awesome minutes of worker building, barracks blocking and / or reaper expands. I really can't imagine how the competitive scene would survive that..

I mean, if there's one thing that'd be totally disgusting it would be some completely new strategies instead of small variations on a build order everyone uses. If I'd never be able to see another double hatch first into 5 minutes of extremely exciting boner-inducing hard droning I don't know how I'd be able to live with myself....


It's a pretty obvious bone to throw at the Viewing audience at the expense of depth.

Early rushes are somewhat practical because you have a timing window where your opponent will be vulnerable (by starting a building(s) and subsequently units earlier than your opponent by cutting workers and/or proxying). With 12 workers at the start, it's going to be nearly impossible for any real "rushes" to occur when the starting buildings will always start at the same time.

It's important that you have these kinds of possibilities in a game, even if these strategies aren't going to be used regularly they force players to scout, search for proxies, basically account for risk taking by their opponents (this plays a bigger role in tournament Best Of series).

On the other hand, we might see more one base play in LoTV, especially for Terran since they benefit the most from having access to MULE earlier (earlier you start OC, the more MULEs will be in play throughout the opening stages of the game); but I think that's more lame since it's easily scouted.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
November 08 2014 00:32 GMT
#894
Looks interesting, I'll keep a tab to see how everything fans out.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
November 08 2014 00:33 GMT
#895
On November 08 2014 09:31 KingAlphard wrote:
What I really don't understand about some of these changes is what problems with the game they are trying to fix. I feel like blizzard shouldn't make changes just for the sake of changing something, but they should rather find brilliant solutions to problems that exist in the gameplay.

For example, I can see where they want to go with economy changes, carriers and tank buff, swarm host and immortal changes, etc. But why exactly are they adding the herc? The cyclone? Did they really have to change the tempest, the oracle and nerf warpgate?

Guess we're discussing too much about it since the game won't come out in less than one year, but still...

I think they're adding the herc to deal better with baneling lurker combos. From starbow bane lurker combos were very strong vs bio play.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
November 08 2014 00:35 GMT
#896
I'm fascinated and shocked. They're changing a lot about the game, a lot more than I expected. Not sure what these changes mean yet, but damn Blizzard. If you actually intend to keep a majority of these changes, you can color me impressed.

If they were to release this right now for multiplayer, I would buy it and try it out for sure. Looks interesting.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
Kokujin
Profile Joined July 2010
United States456 Posts
November 08 2014 00:36 GMT
#897
No more 6/8/10 pooling.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
November 08 2014 00:37 GMT
#898
On November 08 2014 09:31 KingAlphard wrote:
What I really don't understand about some of these changes is what problems with the game they are trying to fix. I feel like blizzard shouldn't make changes just for the sake of changing something, but they should rather find brilliant solutions to problems that exist in the gameplay.

For example, I can see where they want to go with economy changes, carriers and tank buff, swarm host and immortal changes, etc. But why exactly are they adding the herc? The cyclone? Did they really have to change the tempest, the oracle and nerf warpgate?

Guess we're discussing too much about it since the game won't come out in less than one year, but still...


It's actually true a lot of changes seem to come out of the blue and to try and create a new game rather than fixing the one we currently play. They said there would be something to explain the reasoning behind the changes and it will be interesting to hear about that.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-08 00:43:07
November 08 2014 00:40 GMT
#899
On November 08 2014 09:32 Gamegene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 09:19 Colston wrote:
I can understand all of you not wanting to see the 12 worker change, I mean, if they'd implement that we'd all lose those 3 awesome minutes of worker building, barracks blocking and / or reaper expands. I really can't imagine how the competitive scene would survive that..

I mean, if there's one thing that'd be totally disgusting it would be some completely new strategies instead of small variations on a build order everyone uses. If I'd never be able to see another double hatch first into 5 minutes of extremely exciting boner-inducing hard droning I don't know how I'd be able to live with myself....


It's a pretty obvious bone to throw at the Viewing audience at the expense of depth.

Early rushes are somewhat practical because you have a timing window where your opponent will be vulnerable (by starting a building(s) and subsequently units earlier than your opponent by cutting workers and/or proxying). With 12 workers at the start, it's going to be nearly impossible for any real "rushes" to occur when the starting buildings will always start at the same time.

It's important that you have these kinds of possibilities in a game, even if these strategies aren't going to be used regularly they force players to scout, search for proxies, basically account for risk taking by their opponents (this plays a bigger role in tournament Best Of series).

On the other hand, we might see more one base play in LoTV, especially for Terran since they benefit the most from having access to MULE earlier (earlier you start OC, the more MULEs will be in play throughout the opening stages of the game); but I think that's more lame since it's easily scouted.


Your logic is entirely flawed.

Rushes and greedy openings will always exist in an RTS, theres a reason they exist in EVERY rts. Just because there are 12 starting workers instead of 6 doesnt mean rushes suddenly dont exist, it means the game changes and the meta shifts, new stuff emerges.

Sure, everything might be "bigger" (Army size, tech, whatever) and the rushes "longer" or "later" but in the context of the game - it will still always be a rush, just like a greedy eco play will be greed. Doesnt matter if its a 2 rax proxy or a 12 worker 4 rax all in.
Useless wet fish.
Highways
Profile Joined July 2005
Australia6124 Posts
November 08 2014 00:41 GMT
#900
What are the economy changes?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting reports.
#1 Terran hater
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 149 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2001
Artosis 623
Shuttle 258
ProTech71
910 12
soO 11
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm76
League of Legends
JimRising 491
Counter-Strike
taco 545
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox763
AZ_Axe123
Other Games
summit1g8247
tarik_tv5220
Day[9].tv656
shahzam549
PiGStarcraft351
C9.Mang0181
Maynarde138
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV120
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 105
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1048
• Day9tv656
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
9h
KCM Race Survival
9h
WardiTV Invitational
11h
Lambo vs Shameless
Rogue vs uThermal
Percival vs YoungYakov
TBD vs GgMaChine
OSC
15h
OSC
22h
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
1d 11h
OSC
1d 13h
OSC
1d 22h
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
2 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
3 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.