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Was browsing Twitter when I found an article from OnGamers, linked by TLO concerning ESGN not paying it's staff.
Article can be found here: http://www.ongamers.com/articles/esgn-having-financial-difficulties-unable-to-pay-employees/1100-1581/
To sum up briefly, it seems like they burnt through their clauf money and now can't afford to pay their staff who are considering strike action. The article also says that some casters and players weren't paid their winnings as well company restructures and redundancies.
Also a brief mention of some staff not even being on a contract. Seems to be quite the mess they've landed themselves in.
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I'm not surprised. They got top quality players on all the games they broadcasted but got very few viewers. I didn't like their format either. Watching it felt very slow... if you know what I mean.
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i wish i could say i was surprised at this point... it's ex-azubu people from Clauf running the show at ESGN, this combined with really extravagant production + low viewership no matter what game they're broadcasting and i'm not surprised at all that this happened.
it's worse because these are livelihoods that these guys are fucking over by leaving staff members high and dry, but Clauf knew about it.
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DONT WORRY GUYS, SANTA CLAUF IS GONNA FIX THIS!
#CLAUFKINGDOM
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this sucks i really loved their stuff. it was more relaxed and fun. and frodan t.t
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I can't believe that the employees didn't sign any contracts. I mean, isn't it the first time you do when you get a job ?
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Can't believe I almost got a job there, they promised to play a lot for news writing. Would've looked like a sucker now though. Tough for the people who moved there for the job and the unpaid staff in general, hope they justice prevails.
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United States97276 Posts
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On May 29 2014 07:04 Boucot wrote:
I can't believe that the employees didn't sign any contracts. I mean, isn't it the first time you do when you get a job ?
According to article they were operating under good faith that contracts would arrive after the company restructure, probably wasn't the smartest idea in hindsight.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 29 2014 07:00 Paljas wrote:
DONT WORRY GUYS, SANTA CLAUF IS GONNA FIX THIS!
#CLAUFKINGDOM
AZUBU relegated to paying LoL teams to stream, clauf's ESGN is deader than SC2 what next vague assemblage of letters mysteriously putting a fuck ton of money into esports backed by sapinda is next? Usetu?
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Weren't the guys behind ESGN basically the same guys that were behind Azubu?
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Haha not unexpected at all. Sorry to the staff who creates good content but gets shafted 
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 29 2014 07:09 Conti wrote:
Weren't the guys behind ESGN basically the same guys that were behind Azubu?
Not they're backed by clauf, a mysterious company that has recieved a fuck ton of money from sapinda to invest into esports that is put into projects with seemingly zero ability to return profit. They're nothing like azubu a mysterious company that has received a fuck ton of money from sapinda to invest into esports that is put into projects with seemingly no ability to return profit.
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Oh boy, remember when people were thinking NASL screwed up big time in the money department, well, we have this now:
It is estimated by insiders that the company will run at a €1.5 million loss in its first year of operations.
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Is anyone really surprised? They had around 200-300 viewers at the most whenever I watched
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Germany25657 Posts
On May 29 2014 07:06 Shellshock wrote:
wow I'm shocked
Are you shellshocked?
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On May 29 2014 07:11 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 07:09 Conti wrote:
Weren't the guys behind ESGN basically the same guys that were behind Azubu? Not they're backed by clauf, a mysterious company that has recieved a fuck ton of money from sapinda to invest into esports that is put into projects with seemingly zero ability to return profit. They're nothing like azubu a mysterious company that has received a fuck ton of money from sapinda to invest into esports that is put into projects with seemingly no ability to return profit.
They're just as shady, yeah, but I remember reading that they have literally the same people behind the scenes. Some German dude and a few shady Koreans.
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I wonder how Torte is doing? He seemed pretty adamant that Clauf was totally not like Azubu. Then again, he did get hired by them so he's probably fucked too.
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I love t he question mark :D.
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im glad they didnt have time to become influential in sc2, probably because everyone except their employees knew where this was heading
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On May 29 2014 07:18 Serelitz wrote:I wonder how Torte is doing? He seemed pretty adamant that Clauf was totally not like Azubu. Then again, he did get hired by them so he's probably fucked too.
I hope he was smart enough to have a contract.
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Too bad, I actually quite enjoyed their Hearthstone content.
But it was a little bit silly how much money they put into the production value, but never bothered to put any effort into their vods on youtube. Like their playlists were always in the wrong order, I jumped from first video to last several times, which spoiled the entire series up to that point... <.<
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On May 29 2014 07:18 Serelitz wrote:I wonder how Torte is doing? He seemed pretty adamant that Clauf was totally not like Azubu. Then again, he did get hired by them so he's probably fucked too.
well you get blinded way easier when you're in and being victimized.
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I am maybe a bad person for it, but I had a good laugh over this article. Just because of how super obvious and predictable it all was. So predictable it barely warrants an article that they are out of money.
I mean everybody they hired must have known it would end like this. Only question was how long it would take. Although it sounded kinda funny that even the guys at Sapinda seemed surprised how fast ESGN burned through the money. Too fast to even pull off a half decent investment scam. :D
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Their hearthstone content was great, their sc2 stuff was sadly subpar. Everyone knew where this was going, we all just hoped to be proven wrong.
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Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Flying so many people out to make a production like theirs is not going to turn a profit.
The only saving grace was that they were approaching it like a TV series, filming an entire 'season' at a time, but that still isn't enough.
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I cant say I am surprised, shady to the end i guess.
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I felt like everyone was expecting something like this in the end but this fast though?
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On May 29 2014 07:15 KadaverBB wrote:Are you shellshocked?
owww, that was an old joke... almost old enough to call it .. Kadaveric :o)
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
On May 29 2014 07:15 KadaverBB wrote:Are you shellshocked?
He's been shellshocked for the 1122nd time.
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maybe this is a lesson that starcraft needs less in fancy stage production and more money going towards marketing? seriously that fucking set was so over the top and to have the games being determined by a fucking wheel? -_-
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To me... the best part about the article is Clauf's response to OnGamers regarding giving an interview or comment on the matter. In any case, it's disappointing to see however not surprising at all.
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I feel barely bad for the employees to be honest. It's not like they hadn't been warned beforehand about the shadiness of ESGN/Azubu/Sapinda.
Now I'm a bit concerned about the GEM guys.
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Don't worry guys, ESGN/Clauf/Azubu/whatever is totally legit.
I feel no pity for the employees, they knew exactly what they were getting into and if they have any intelligence which I assume they do, they knew this would happen eventually. They took their jobs knowing that, on top of that they attempted to convince the rest of us that what they were working on was legitimate.
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On May 29 2014 08:06 Dodgin wrote:Don't worry guys, ESGN/Clauf/Azubu/whatever is totally legit. I feel no pity for the employees, they knew exactly what they were getting into and if they have any intelligence which I assume they do, they knew this would happen eventually. They took their jobs knowing that, on top of that they attempted to convince the rest of us that what they were working on was legitimate.
I kinda wanna know about Torte right now, people have said this earlier, but he's a big part of the community and a generally good guy on the forums. I hope he is doing ok right now.
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I dont want to be the only smartass out here, but is Starcraft really a thing anymore? it seems like everyone besides ESL has some financial troubles without focusing on Dota or Counter Strike or any other popular game
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your Country52797 Posts
This is not a good sign
On May 29 2014 07:15 KadaverBB wrote:Are you shellshocked?
You made that joke before I could 
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On May 29 2014 08:06 Dodgin wrote:Don't worry guys, ESGN/Clauf/Azubu/whatever is totally legit. I feel no pity for the employees, they knew exactly what they were getting into and if they have any intelligence which I assume they do, they knew this would happen eventually. They took their jobs knowing that, on top of that they attempted to convince the rest of us that what they were working on was legitimate.
Haha, this isn't meant as an aggressive comment or anything... but that AZUBU thumbnail on your account is funny after reading your post. Just wanted to point out the irony.
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This is the most unsurprising news ever.
Esports is so fucking shady at times.
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On May 29 2014 08:09 zaxx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 08:06 Dodgin wrote:Don't worry guys, ESGN/Clauf/Azubu/whatever is totally legit. I feel no pity for the employees, they knew exactly what they were getting into and if they have any intelligence which I assume they do, they knew this would happen eventually. They took their jobs knowing that, on top of that they attempted to convince the rest of us that what they were working on was legitimate. Haha, this isn't meant as an aggressive comment or anything... but that AZUBU thumbnail on your account is funny after reading your post. Just wanted to point out the irony.
The team flair is supposed to be ironic.
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Guys...this is just the standard in esports.
ESL (the oldest and most famous league around) operates on 0.5 - 2 millions loss each year.
(Revenue being about 10 millions)
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I wish they got more viewership. It would've definitely given them some more $$$ and publicity. They host such great hearthstone, sc2 etc streams but no one really tunes in.
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Poor Torte/Snowbird/Frodan/etc... then again, all the signs were there, it's hard to feel all that sorry for them.
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Hope Torte is fine. I remember his blog when he first move in to esgn office in german.
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Shocking.. not. Constantly flying people back and forth to Germany is gonna drain you quite fast I imagine.
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I can't describe how shocked I am. Not at all.
Remember folks, do not take jobs without contracts.
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I didn't even know who ESGN was or what they did until I read this thread.
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I'm not surprised. They have such a high quality production, studio and do a lot of broadcasts; then they pull in relatively low viewing figures. I was wondering how they were making any profit.
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On May 29 2014 06:55 KatatoniK wrote:Was browsing Twitter when I found an article from OnGamers, linked by TLO concerning ESGN not paying it's staff. Article can be found here: http://www.ongamers.com/articles/esgn-having-financial-difficulties-unable-to-pay-employees/1100-1581/To sum up briefly, it seems like they burnt through their clauf money and now can't afford to pay their staff who are considering strike action. The article also says that some casters and players weren't paid their winnings as well company restructures and redundancies. Also a brief mention of some staff not even being on a contract. Seems to be quite the mess they've landed themselves in.
They brought it on themselves if they plan on working for such people. No offense but certain companies/organizations should have been weeded out a long time ago.
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On May 29 2014 08:30 Plansix wrote:
I can't describe how shocked I am. Not at all.
Remember folks, do not take jobs without contracts.
More like do not take jobs with sketchy companies period. A contract is one thing, but your ability to sue and get any kind of return is another at the same time.
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On May 29 2014 08:46 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 08:30 Plansix wrote:
I can't describe how shocked I am. Not at all.
Remember folks, do not take jobs without contracts. More like do not take jobs with sketchy companies period. A contract is one thing, but your ability to sue and get any kind of return is another at the same time.
there is always the possiblity to get some cash/xp and leave the boat before it sunk but it went down so freaking fast here :o
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Getting a studio in freaking Babelsberg for a half an hour news show plus the occasional extra content aka their fight night didn''t work out? Who could think that that would be the case...
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I would never take a job in any esports business. Too common that they crash and seems like getting paid regularly is actually hard to achieve
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On May 29 2014 09:21 Orcasgt24 wrote:
I would never take a job in any esports business. Too common that they crash and seems like getting paid regularly is actually hard to achieve
only true if its a brand new start up. if EG had a job opening, i wouldnt think oh this shit is not real cause they've been in the business for a long time
btw these start up are especially bad because they are basically preying on people who want to work in their "dream industry" and basically would do anything to be in it. and because of that, these scumbags can do shit like oh we'll do a contract later, u can just work for free until then
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D: You think the school girls got payed?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
I'm not surprised, sadly. I wouldn't be surprised with ANY esports start-up getting into financial trouble to be honest, but the party they held to kick off the launch seemed... a bit presumptuous.
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that went well. i didnt watch most of their stuff cause of clauf. and well, these few small videos they shot as commercials in the beginning were pretty dumb. unlike NASL, this doesn't make me feel anything. i'm pretty sad for the people that went there, hoping to find a stable job i guess... frodan needs to come back to the US with a lot of clauf money and revive nasl now.
the only logical consequence from this.
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Hong Kong9153 Posts
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Did anyone not see this coming?
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THIS IS SHOCKING I AM GENUINELY SURPRISED BY THIS NEWS
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I'm most worried about the good people we know went over there... maybe we'll see Frodan at ESL? And please, SOMEONE think of CHANCE!!
That poor, poor puppy.
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too much talk and downtime. I hate that show.
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ESGN had put down quiet a bit of money for barely having a stable grounds when they started fight night... this shouldn't be a surprise unfortunately. but i do like their production, and i hope they can pull through this difficult time. glhf
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United States33362 Posts
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This is where I have to come in as a new employee of the eSports industry and say, "Unfortunately payments here come late or not at all." reading through this article and the scam that it is, however... I must say I am thoroughly disgusted.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 29 2014 07:11 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 07:09 Conti wrote:
Weren't the guys behind ESGN basically the same guys that were behind Azubu? Not they're backed by clauf, a mysterious company that has recieved a fuck ton of money from sapinda to invest into esports that is put into projects with seemingly zero ability to return profit. They're nothing like azubu a mysterious company that has received a fuck ton of money from sapinda to invest into esports that is put into projects with seemingly no ability to return profit.
Well Twitch just sold for $1Billion. Azubu might not have been a bad idea if they executed on it.
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i think Kripp mentioned some random guy becoming the director or something. Dunno, doesnt seem they have the highest selection criteria for a lot of the jobs. It seems like a lot fo the companies in esports are suffering from a lot of financial difficulties so im not surprised.
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Well that fizzled out earlier than I was expecting.
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Is anyone in this business still making money?
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They must have spent all of their money on showgirls and wheels ^_^
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Actually, I have heard name esgn but I have absolutely no idea what they did. Did they host events?
If they have used so much money,maybe they should have used more to advertise their "product"
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Canada16217 Posts
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Wait, didn't they recently get like a $30 million investment or something?
or is that some other sapinda/clauf/azubu clusterfuck?
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Canada16217 Posts
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On May 29 2014 15:48 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Actually, I have heard name esgn but I have absolutely no idea what they did. Did they host events?
If they have used so much money,maybe they should have used more to advertise their "product"
the only thing I remember is "the bitches"
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while this sucks for all the people who took job offers with them and took the time to go to thier events, everyone and there dog saw this coming a mile off
they had a massive glossy studio with high production values, well known casters ( some of which live in korea ie artosis) and big name players...
and then had something in the region of 2k viewers to show for it
considering thats the sort of numbers destiny puts up i doubt it was anywhere near enough to pay for thier costs
heck it even got called out on unfiltered a while ago ( the general consensus being where do they expect to make that money back from)
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On May 29 2014 07:06 Shellshock wrote:
wow I'm shocked
shellshocked?
or sarcasm
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On May 29 2014 16:56 neoghaleon55 wrote:shellshocked? or sarcasm
"Shellshocked" should be thing.
Or
Im going to Shellshock you  
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On May 29 2014 15:54 malady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 15:48 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Actually, I have heard name esgn but I have absolutely no idea what they did. Did they host events?
If they have used so much money,maybe they should have used more to advertise their "product" the only thing I remember is "the bitches"
Why was I never told about this? They held a Starcraft show? I watch Starcraft. A lot. But no, not a word. Wow you guys.
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I watch a lot of LoL and sc2 but actually have never heard of them. =(
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I thought it was common knowledge that the Sapinda group uses e-sports as a way of hiding their financial losses ? Like, "no no we didn't lose a lot of money we invested in something!" knowing very well there'll be only losses and no returns.
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It's a shame but hardly surprising that an organization casting content recorded weeks ago is doing badly in esports.
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Hm, I only watched them for some Hearthstone, were they even covering sc2?
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I for one am mightily surprised by this shocking and unexpected turn of events.
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We all knew this day would come.
They just lit a big money bonfire and now its in ashes and everybody was watching in awe, knowingly.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
all that money, used so very wrongly :/
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On May 29 2014 17:56 Arthayze wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that the Sapinda group uses e-sports as a way of hiding their financial losses ? Like, "no no we didn't lose a lot of money we invested in something!" knowing very well there'll be only losses and no returns.
Yeh, that was actually why I wasn't impressed at all by Richard Lewis article. All the information posted in the article was something I had actually researched myself to weeks prior in about an hour. The real question is what type of advantage the guys behind Sapinda gets from investing in nonprofitable investments. It would be awesome to see journalists research on that subject.
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On May 29 2014 20:22 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 17:56 Arthayze wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that the Sapinda group uses e-sports as a way of hiding their financial losses ? Like, "no no we didn't lose a lot of money we invested in something!" knowing very well there'll be only losses and no returns. Yeh, that was actually why I wasn't impressed at all by Richard Lewis article. All the information posted in the article was something I had actually researched myself to weeks prior in about an hour. The real question is what type of advantage the guys behind Sapinda gets from investing in nonprofitable investments. It would be awesome to see journalists research on that subject.
Yeah, you know, journalists job isn't always to inform people who are already informed, but to inform those who aren't. Good job on you though, I am really impressed with your research. Keep it up, champ!
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On May 29 2014 20:22 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 17:56 Arthayze wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that the Sapinda group uses e-sports as a way of hiding their financial losses ? Like, "no no we didn't lose a lot of money we invested in something!" knowing very well there'll be only losses and no returns. Yeh, that was actually why I wasn't impressed at all by Richard Lewis article. All the information posted in the article was something I had actually researched myself to weeks prior in about an hour. The real question is what type of advantage the guys behind Sapinda gets from investing in nonprofitable investments. It would be awesome to see journalists research on that subject.
they could report more losses then they really did lose, paying less taxes. money laundering is always another issue.
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can we start calling out all the personalities and members of these consistent snake oil, scam artists? I'm looking at everyone involved in peddling these products and the behind the scene managers of GEM, Azubu, Clauf, tumba, artosis, etc., it's always the same clowns involved in all of these projects. Are we just going to keep ignoring that because they were nice members of the community at one point?
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Peru2011 Posts
seems like usual #esports to me
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Lots of hindsight in this thread, of course they didn't know they would lose so much money. That makes them bad people for giving eSports a try? C'mon guys!
The leadership in this failure don't deserve to be paid for doing such a poor job, if anyone should get paid though it should be the technical guys because I haven't seen any issues there. I mean I will join the sadness for the people who won't get paid but also remember that everyone involved with this gets it on their resumes at worst its a unpaid internship.
I personally liked the show but nobody would give it a chance because of the showgirls, I think they underestimated how much people would get offended by that. Also the showgirls never changing their outfits was embarrassing, I think we would see them in schoolgirl outfits all year? I forget but whatever. After seeing what Frodan and Lauren were able to do at NASL I was hoping him and the showgirls could do some funny interactions.
Also, the problem with doing the entire thing pre-recorded was they couldn't change their approach or do enough adaptation to serve their viewers better. We told them to change things and they say "we're listening, we are" then of course the deed was done and the showgirls remained.
The SC2 content was the worst... ugh. Too much randomness and awkward English interviews sober with a bunch of guys only fun when drunk. I loved the fighting game content, those guys were funny and nice to see some other persons of color in eSports and the couch interactions were the best, but I kept looking for it but forgetting it was on and doing something else.
Which is the main problem with fight night, you tune in then its a game you don't want then forget when it is a game you want. I wish the entire thing was just FGC also but they needed Hearthstone.
The problem with Hearthstone was, the boring rules and presentation, listen I can watch a turn based card game, but if turns last 5 minutes ain't nobody got time for that, does it take that much time to decide? BTW I feel Hearthstone is a game on a serious decline, I notice Kripparian and Hafu getting half the viewers, and hope the 250k tournament isn't a huge bust.
Welp thats my post mortem, sorry to all involved.
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On May 29 2014 23:57 crms wrote:
can we start calling out all the personalities and members of these consistent snake oil, scam artists? I'm looking at everyone involved in peddling these products and the behind the scene managers of EGM, Azubu, Clauf, tumba, artosis, etc., it's always the same clowns involved in all of these projects. Are we just going to keep ignoring that because they were nice members of the community at one point?
don't worry they're all working hard with GEM.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 30 2014 00:16 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote:Lots of hindsight in this thread, of course they didn't know they would lose so much money. That makes them bad people for giving eSports a try? C'mon guys! The leadership in this failure don't deserve to be paid for doing such a poor job, if anyone should get paid though it should be the technical guys because I haven't seen any issues there. I mean I will join the sadness for the people who won't get paid but also remember that everyone involved with this gets it on their resumes at worst its a unpaid internship. I personally liked the show but nobody would give it a chance because of the showgirls, I think they underestimated how much people would get offended by that. Also the showgirls never changing their outfits was embarrassing, I think we would see them in schoolgirl outfits all year? I forget but whatever. After seeing what Frodan and Lauren were able to do at NASL I was hoping him and the showgirls could do some funny interactions. Also, the problem with doing the entire thing pre-recorded was they couldn't change their approach or do enough adaptation to serve their viewers better. We told them to change things and they say "we're listening, we are" then of course the deed was done and the showgirls remained. The SC2 content was the worst... ugh. Too much randomness and awkward English interviews sober with a bunch of guys only fun when drunk. I loved the fighting game content, those guys were funny and nice to see some other persons of color in eSports and the couch interactions were the best, but I kept looking for it but forgetting it was on and doing something else. Which is the main problem with fight night, you tune in then its a game you don't want then forget when it is a game you want. I wish the entire thing was just FGC also but they needed Hearthstone. The problem with Hearthstone was, the boring rules and presentation, listen I can watch a turn based card game, but if turns last 5 minutes ain't nobody got time for that, does it take that much time to decide? BTW I feel Hearthstone is a game on a serious decline, I notice Kripparian and Hafu getting half the viewers, and hope the 250k tournament isn't a huge bust. Welp thats my post mortem, sorry to all involved.
if you dare to inform yourself on Windhorst, sapinda and azubu you'd know why people are acting like that. The irony is that ESGN were bad enough to burn the money that quickly from what was most likely an investment scam since the beginning
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On May 29 2014 20:59 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 20:22 Hider wrote:On May 29 2014 17:56 Arthayze wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that the Sapinda group uses e-sports as a way of hiding their financial losses ? Like, "no no we didn't lose a lot of money we invested in something!" knowing very well there'll be only losses and no returns. Yeh, that was actually why I wasn't impressed at all by Richard Lewis article. All the information posted in the article was something I had actually researched myself to weeks prior in about an hour. The real question is what type of advantage the guys behind Sapinda gets from investing in nonprofitable investments. It would be awesome to see journalists research on that subject. Yeah, you know, journalists job isn't always to inform people who are already informed, but to inform those who aren't. Good job on you though, I am really impressed with your research. Keep it up, champ!
I didn't say it was bad. I just said it wasn't this journalistic masterpiece that some guys at Reddit thought it was. It was rather basic journalism. Richard Lewis himself kinda agreed on that when he himself stated that it was all infromation that was easy to find on the Internet.
Now what really impressed me on the other hand though was that TL guy who first wrote on Azubu before anyone else had raised mysterious concerns. That guy definitely did more than one would expect.
they could report more losses then they really did lose, paying less taxes. money laundering is always another issue.
Who reports more losses? Sapinda Investment Group? That would work through them clamining to investing $26M in Azubu and claiming to loss it all despite only investing like $2M (and losing $2M)?
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On May 30 2014 02:04 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 20:59 nkr wrote:On May 29 2014 20:22 Hider wrote:On May 29 2014 17:56 Arthayze wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that the Sapinda group uses e-sports as a way of hiding their financial losses ? Like, "no no we didn't lose a lot of money we invested in something!" knowing very well there'll be only losses and no returns. Yeh, that was actually why I wasn't impressed at all by Richard Lewis article. All the information posted in the article was something I had actually researched myself to weeks prior in about an hour. The real question is what type of advantage the guys behind Sapinda gets from investing in nonprofitable investments. It would be awesome to see journalists research on that subject. Yeah, you know, journalists job isn't always to inform people who are already informed, but to inform those who aren't. Good job on you though, I am really impressed with your research. Keep it up, champ! I didn't say it was bad. I just said it wasn't this journalistic masterpiece that some guys at Reddit thought it was. It was rather basic journalism. Richard Lewis himself kinda agreed on that when he himself stated that it was all infromation that was easy to find on the Internet. Now what really impressed me on the other hand though was that TL guy who first wrote on Azubu before anyone else had raised mysterious concerns. That guy definitely did more than one would expect. Show nested quote +they could report more losses then they really did lose, paying less taxes. money laundering is always another issue. Who reports more losses? Sapinda Investment Group? That would work through them clamining to investing $26M in Azubu and claiming to loss it all despite only investing like $2M (and losing $2M)?
Your money laundering fu is not quite up to par. Making investments in businesses that end in losses is only one part of the operation. Tax-wise, they invested 1.6 mil and lost 1.6mil. What you don't see is who payments were made to by the investment vehicle, and how those payments were made. Think $600 hammers and outside consultants.
However, that's all IF Sapinda is engaged in alleged money laundering through eSports loss vehicles.
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I wonder how naive you have to be to not only believe the promises of Claufzubu, but also not even sign a contract. I'd feel more sorry for them if they hadn't repeatedly tried to spread the good word of Clauf on these forums.
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Well then everythings works as intended. They burn money and get bancrupt while doing so. After their collapse they claim to have lost oven more money than previously assumed et voilà(!) freshly laundered money goes into the wallets of some super-duper-investors.
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Generally if you want to launder money you shift ill-gotten gains through a profitable enterprise. Dirty money goes in, clean money comes out - laundered as it were. $600 hammers and outside consultants wouldn't make a lot of sense if your goal is just to launder your own money. Sure, what you spend on yourself gets laundered, but everything else the operation spends money on is a loss to you.
It's possible they were committing some sort of tax or investor fraud (I haven't read anything that supports this), but that doesn't sound very compatible with laundering.
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What a sad state of affairs this is when saying "not surprised" is becoming extremely cliche. Can't wait till clauf/sapinda/esgn/GEM are done with sc2.
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Doesnt no contract mean that legally the staff arent even entitled to money?
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On May 30 2014 09:18 sharkie wrote:
Doesnt no contract mean that legally the staff arent even entitled to money?
that is correct.
even if they had contracts I doubt they could enforce them.
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Hong Kong9153 Posts
in general, verbal agreements are contracts and are enforceable. it is just much harder to do so.
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On May 30 2014 09:42 itsjustatank wrote:
in general, verbal agreements are contracts and are enforceable. it is just much harder to do so.
Generally, but it'll depend on German law because they're in Germany. Although a lot of their employees are not German citizens, which can be a curveball for jurisdiction and standing, maybe.
Obviously, IANAL - but it does add complications. (Think of Hyun's problem with Quantic.)
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On May 29 2014 20:04 Liquid`Ret wrote:
all that money, used so very wrongly :/
Hey, them titties were a crucial investment.
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On May 30 2014 10:51 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 09:42 itsjustatank wrote:
in general, verbal agreements are contracts and are enforceable. it is just much harder to do so. Generally, but it'll depend on German law because they're in Germany. Although a lot of their employees are not German citizens, which can be a curveball for jurisdiction and standing, maybe.
The german law is quite good in this regard (handling these kind of problems) and verbal agreements with payment are like working contracts.
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United States33362 Posts
On May 30 2014 07:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Generally if you want to launder money you shift ill-gotten gains through a profitable enterprise. Dirty money goes in, clean money comes out - laundered as it were. $600 hammers and outside consultants wouldn't make a lot of sense if your goal is just to launder your own money. Sure, what you spend on yourself gets laundered, but everything else the operation spends money on is a loss to you.
It's possible they were committing some sort of tax or investor fraud (I haven't read anything that supports this), but that doesn't sound very compatible with laundering.
actually one of the names previously connected to azubu is in exile from korea due to securities fraud D:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/406145-esports-contributor-azuwho
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EPT
