EPTWhy did it go down?
The future of RTS games - Page 45
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Keep "my game is better than yours"-slapfights out of this. If the discussion devolves into simple bashing, this thread will be closed. | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Why did it go down? | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 26 2014 00:35 Xiphos wrote: I want to see PROFESSIONAL gaming to persist. That you are able to make a LIVING off from RTS games as long as you are at the top 5% of the player pool. Is that too hard to ask? SC2 is still one of the best e-sports for earnings if you're in the upper percentile. DotA is progressing, but it's telling that if you remove The International from the equation, players that have been at the top for 4 years straight can't even come close to the earnings of Nestea, MVP, MC, etc. LoL is mostly about salary and stability than it is prize pool. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On May 26 2014 04:54 FlowOfIdeas wrote: Enough of these "what's wrong with Starcraft" threads. Heart of the Swarm was the biggest selling game last year on pc. Yeah but you could easily argue that the reason for that is that there is no real competition for RTS games and that the sales are mostly if not completely as a result of the phenomenal success of Starcraft I and Brood War. There is so much machinery and expectation built into the idea that SC2 will be the next wave taking the massive esports success of starcraft even further, that it is little wonder we are where we are today. With so much time and money, and the ability to hire talented developers, its obvious that Blizzard didn't make a crappy game. But its still underwhelming in comparison to most people's lofty expectations. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 26 2014 05:06 radscorpion9 wrote: Yeah but you could easily argue that the reason for that is that there is no real competition for RTS games and that the sales are mostly if not completely as a result of the phenomenal success of Starcraft I and Brood War. There is so much machinery and expectation built into the idea that SC2 will be the next wave taking the massive esports success of starcraft even further, that it is little wonder we are where we are today. With so much time and money, and the ability to hire talented developers, its obvious that Blizzard didn't make a crappy game. But its still underwhelming in comparison to most people's lofty expectations. At the same time, a lot of the success and longevity of AAA titles during the 90's and early 00's were also because of "low competition". The market audience was mostly kids and teenagers, with limited disposable income, so they tended to stick with games a lot longer. Which also meant that companies would have much longer development cycles and usually only one game on the production line. And even then, the irony is that international SC2 competition is still magnitudes larger than BW ever was, even at the present time. | ||
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FlowOfIdeas
30 Posts
On May 26 2014 05:06 radscorpion9 wrote: Yeah but you could easily argue that the reason for that is that there is no real competition for RTS games and that the sales are mostly if not completely as a result of the phenomenal success of Starcraft I and Brood War. There is so much machinery and expectation built into the idea that SC2 will be the next wave taking the massive esports success of starcraft even further, that it is little wonder we are where we are today. With so much time and money, and the ability to hire talented developers, its obvious that Blizzard didn't make a crappy game. But its still underwhelming in comparison to most people's lofty expectations. lol? What else could you possibly want out of SC? We have on-going tournies, with WCS matches almost every week, NFL-quality production value, and personalities that get us all hyped up. There isn't anything else SC2 could do to make itself better, there is nothing wrong with it. MOBA shit games get more viewers simply because there is more players. Percentage wise (in comparison to viewers to players ratio), Starcraft gets more viewers than League. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 26 2014 05:06 radscorpion9 wrote: Yeah but you could easily argue that the reason for that is that there is no real competition for RTS games and that the sales are mostly if not completely as a result of the phenomenal success of Starcraft I and Brood War. There is so much machinery and expectation built into the idea that SC2 will be the next wave taking the massive esports success of starcraft even further, that it is little wonder we are where we are today. With so much time and money, and the ability to hire talented developers, its obvious that Blizzard didn't make a crappy game. But its still underwhelming in comparison to most people's lofty expectations. Not at all. It is underwhelming compared to the lofty expectations of a relatively small group of hardcore BW fans who embraced everything about Brood War's difficulty of mechanics and the nearly infinite areas of improvement. To anyone but those relatively few, SC2 was and is a very good game. It didn't sell millions of copies off of Brood War's hype. It may have sold better because of Brood War, but to say that "most" people expected something much greater seems hyperbolic bordering on the extreme. | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
StarCraft 2 only became so big in e-sports because of the existing BW scene, the BW legacy and Blizzard's engagement. You could argue that if Broodwar had never existed, SC2 would never have become an e-sports title. Imagine how big SC2 would be today if it had been free-to-play from the beginning! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2014 05:26 Zealously wrote: Not at all. It is underwhelming compared to the lofty expectations of a relatively small group of hardcore BW fans who embraced everything about Brood War's difficulty of mechanics and the nearly infinite areas of improvement. To anyone but those relatively few, SC2 was and is a very good game. It didn't sell millions of copies off of Brood War's hype. It may have sold better because of Brood War, but to say that "most" people expected something much greater seems hyperbolic bordering on the extreme. The only place BW is this sacred pinnacle of RTS glory is TL and the hardcore BW community. Outside of TL, people respect the game and have fond memories of it, but that is about it. People do not think it is Esports Jesus or anything along those lines. People think it is neat that BW took off in korea, but the majority of people think that is because Korea is weird, not because BW was so amazing. Its like Japan and being obsessed with horse racing games for reasons beyond moral's understanding. People bought SC2 because they like Blizzard products and enjoy their games. Every one of my friends "in person" friends bought SC2 and the expansion. I am still the only "crazy" one who ladders and plays competitively. If SC2 were harder or more like BW, they just wouldn't play it. Hell, right now they don't do anything beyond 3v3 and 4v4s for fun. | ||
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Nacl(Draq)
United States302 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16755 Posts
On May 26 2014 05:46 Plansix wrote: The only place BW is this sacred pinnacle of RTS glory is TL and the hardcore BW community. Outside of TL, people respect the game and have fond memories of it, but that is about it. People do not think it is Esports Jesus or anything along those lines. People think it is neat that BW took off in korea, but the majority of people think that is because Korea is weird, not because BW was so amazing. Its like Japan and being obsessed with horse racing games for reasons beyond moral's understanding. People bought SC2 because they like Blizzard products and enjoy their games. Every one of my friends "in person" friends bought SC2 and the expansion. I am still the only "crazy" one who ladders and plays competitively. If SC2 were harder or more like BW, they just wouldn't play it. Hell, right now they don't do anything beyond 3v3 and 4v4s for fun. Brood War has the exact same kind of loyal community as Tecmo Bowl and NHL '94. Same shit, different genre. In those communities NFL glory is winning in Madison, Wiscounsin and Hockey glory only happens in the NHL94online.com Stanley Cup playoffs. Don't pretend that the Brood War lovers on TL.Net are some kind of freak show. They are not. The hockey genre is in decline in the same way RTS is in decline... its down to 1 big time publisher. The real hockey championship is nothing artificial EA can create. It occurs in the grassroots NHL94Online.com community. NFL is monopolized by EA. I do not know if i could draw the same parallel because i do not know enough about the NFL Football competitive scene. The Madison championships look a hell of a lot more fun than any artificial bullshit EA could drum up with the latest version of Madden. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 26 2014 06:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Brood War has the exact same kind of loyal community as Tecmo Bowl and NHL '94. Same shit, different genre. In those communities NFL glory is winning in Madison, Wiscounsin and Hockey glory only happens in the NHL94online.com Stanley Cup playoffs. Don't pretend that the Brood War lovers on TL.Net are some kind of freak show. They are not. The hockey genre is in decline in the same way RTS is in decline... its down to 1 big time publisher. The real hockey championship is nothing artificial EA can create. It occurs in the grassroots NHL94Online.com community. NFL is monopolized by EA. I do not know if i could draw the same parallel because i do not know enough about the NFL Football competitive scene. The Madison championships look a hell of a lot more fun than any artificial bullshit EA could drum up with the latest version of Madden. ...way to argue a point that was never said... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16755 Posts
On May 26 2014 09:15 WolfintheSheep wrote: ...way to argue a point that was never said... i'll make it more concise for you On May 26 2014 05:46 Plansix wrote:but the majority of people think that is because Korea is weird i do not think Korea is weird nor is Madison Wiscounsin and the Tecmo Super Bowl. same shit, different genre. k thx. Brood War, like NHL '94 and Tecmo Bowl are timeless classics whose sequels never recreated the same magic. | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
MOBAs, Smash Bros, CoD for the future. But seriously, SC2 is trending downwards =\ User was warned for this post | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2014 09:15 WolfintheSheep wrote: ...way to argue a point that was never said... Never argue with jimmy. He will take you places you don't want to go and you won't know how you got there. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 26 2014 10:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'll make it more concise for you i do not think Korea is weird nor is Madison Wiscounsin and the Tecmo Super Bowl. same shit, different genre. k thx. Brood War, like NHL '94 and Tecmo Bowl are timeless classics whose sequels never recreated the same magic. Again, point completely missed. Actually, no. Thanks for proving the point. I don't care about NHL '94 or Tecmo Bowl. I don't even have a clue what those games are. Never liked sports games anyway. If I played the sequels, I wouldn't care in the slightest about the "magic" of the originals. And that's what most people think about BW. Was fun for campaigns, fun for the custom maps, fun for goofing around with friends with 20-minute-no-rush. And Korea was a wacky place that had a video game as a national sport. Newer games came out, people moved on. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 26 2014 13:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: Again, point completely missed. Actually, no. Thanks for proving the point. I don't care about NHL '94 or Tecmo Bowl. I don't even have a clue what those games are. Never liked sports games anyway. If I played the sequels, I wouldn't care in the slightest about the "magic" of the originals. And that's what most people think about BW. Was fun for campaigns, fun for the custom maps, fun for goofing around with friends with 20-minute-no-rush. And Korea was a wacky place that had a video game as a national sport. Newer games came out, people moved on. Korea's BW scene is still booming :S | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Just like SC2 isn't a dead game or in the death spiral. People should just watch the games they enjoy and stop worrying about which game is or is not in decline. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 26 2014 14:15 Plansix wrote: Just like SC2 isn't a dead game or in the death spiral. People should just watch the games they enjoy and stop worrying about which game is or is not in decline. Also: If there are ways to bring a game out of decline, no reason to not do that. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2014 14:17 Xiphos wrote: Also: If there are ways to bring a game out of decline, no reason to not do that. Yeah, they should really do a graphics update for BW, that game looks like trash. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 26 2014 14:29 Plansix wrote: Yeah, they should really do a graphics update for BW, that game looks like trash. They really should make SC2's graphic more clear, can't distinguish anything apart. | ||
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