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vjcamarena
Spain493 Posts
Abduct moves massive units significantly less than others (half the distance, maybe?) That way, it doesn't work against broodlords, which are quite often made in mid to big numbers (>8), but 4-6 well positioned Vipers might be enough to move 2-3 collosus (maybe with a double pull even) enough for Roach-Hydra to take them on. I think it's intuitive, easy to see visually, and a cool nerf. What do you guys think? | ||
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tokinho
United States785 Posts
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Gen.Rolly
United States200 Posts
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MorDka
Poland543 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On May 07 2014 05:52 Gen.Rolly wrote: Swarm host are a good unit. Quit citing the handful of games in which they are abused to justify changing the unit. I don't see anyone complaining about mass voidray or mass raven, those units are pretty broken as well in large groups. The game ends quickly when you mass Ravens or Void Rays. Mass Swarm Host + static D takes forever and is boring as fuck to watch. They even said that since it's ZvZ there's no balance issue... | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On May 07 2014 03:10 Plansix wrote: Why provide useful feed back when you can just say "redesign swarm host/warp gate/colossi/sentries" and them claim blizzard made it bad on purpose to sell us on more expansions? The redesign argument is so old. It might as well be called "fix it in a way I approve of, but I'm not gong to tell you what I would approve of." Yeah, well, the problem is Blizzard already has a plan for dealing with Swarmhosts. We just... don't know what it is, and Blizzard's just... not willing to implement it yet because it'll mess up the meta, so the pros just... have to keep playing with the already completely messed up meta. Blizzard needs to stop trying to preserve the sanctity of this meta. It's a shitty meta, and even if they never patched the game ever again, an expansion is still coming that will artificially uproot everything and throw it out the window, so there's absolutely nothing to preserve the sanctity of. We're not talking about slipping roofies to the Virgin Mary here, we're talking about totally consensual sex with the girl you're already engaged to. Everybody knows it's gonna happen. You're just putting off the inevitable for no reason discernible by man. On May 07 2014 05:13 Blargh wrote: Even if the game isn't "balanced" (by the way, I care more about the game reflecting skill more than I care about balance) with the removal of the swarm-host, nothing good comes from the unit. Bingo! I'm sick and tired of Zerg getting through tournaments off the back of their impressive Roach vs. Roach a-move micro. The only thing Blizzard is doing by holding off on actual fixes to actual problems is prolonging our suffering. | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
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Yorkie
United States12612 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On May 07 2014 05:18 aZealot wrote: Within limits, Plansix. Within limits. Too many exceptions and then it might become more worthwhile to start again from scratch. Moreover, elegant design isn't just about the beauty of a game, but also its ease of understanding. But, overall, I agree (and have said as much myself elsewhere), that opposing exceptions because it is an exception is not sound. Giving Hydras a buff vs bio-air makes more sense to me than removing Viper abduct vs massive. I disliked that ability in beta because I thought it denied positioning. But, I was wrong. It's also a cool ability and needed for Z vs P and T. The only criteria of any relevance should be whether it leads to a better game. If it turns out that we have to make so many exceptions that it may be better to, as you said, start from scratch, then so be it. No better time than the last expansion to do it. Being afraid or hesitant to make sweeping/difficult changes could be far more harmful than taking a wild hail mary swing. In this case, no such drastic things are needed, merely the recognition that notions of elegance and symmetry are irrelevant compared to achieving a better product. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 07 2014 06:06 Squat wrote: The only criteria of any relevance should be whether it leads to a better game. If it turns out that we have to make so many exceptions that it may be better to, as you said, start from scratch, then so be it. No better time than the last expansion to do it. Being afraid or hesitant to make sweeping/difficult changes could be far more harmful than taking a wild hail mary swing. In this case, no such drastic things are needed, merely the recognition that notions of elegance and symmetry are irrelevant compared to achieving a better product. Yeah there should be plenty of changes to go around in the last expansion or else they just want to settle for the current state of the game. | ||
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ArtistenSc2
Sweden53 Posts
affects nothing else and fair for all, at least for the time being. Or restrict the max no of SH in zvz or always... | ||
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PassionFruit
294 Posts
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Gen.Rolly
United States200 Posts
On May 07 2014 05:59 DinoMight wrote: The game ends quickly when you mass Ravens or Void Rays. Mass Swarm Host + static D takes forever and is boring as fuck to watch. They even said that since it's ZvZ there's no balance issue... "Boring to watch" is a subjective statement. I love late game SH usage personally. Everyone talked about the Reality vs Soulkey game. I think a few voices in the community are trying to apply their groupthink to the rest of us by insisting swarm hosts are bad and late games are a terrible thing. How many sc2 games end in 6 minutes because of a cheese? I find those super boring... | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
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AKAvg
Brazil298 Posts
Too bad is not coming before LotV or something like that, Spore changes should be kept IMHO, the proposed buff to hydras probably won't do much if you consider the mobility of Mutas Viper abduct changes seems dangerous and, even as a Protoss player, feels wrong not being able to abduct Colossi. If anything they should make the "full" Mothership ( not the Core ) immune to abducts Btw, can anyone tell me which game in particular this stalemate happened? | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 07 2014 06:11 Arnstein wrote: My dream is that for the last expansion, they just revert everything back to BW, and we get crazy games all the time :D Or StarBow, those guys take the basic concept of BW and added what SC2 did right in the game. It felt much more like a true successor to the most successful Esport game of all time. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
If someone could show me vods with sh vs sh games in PL or GSL , otherwise i would think people here are overreacting to some suboptimal ZvZ players ... | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On May 07 2014 05:48 vjcamarena wrote: Here's an idea: Abduct moves massive units significantly less than others (half the distance, maybe?) That way, it doesn't work against broodlords, which are quite often made in mid to big numbers (>8), but 4-6 well positioned Vipers might be enough to move 2-3 collosus (maybe with a double pull even) enough for Roach-Hydra to take them on. I think it's intuitive, easy to see visually, and a cool nerf. What do you guys think? I think it's an awful idea that is unwarranted and potentially breaks zerg. Stop saying this stuff, please. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On May 07 2014 06:10 Gen.Rolly wrote: "Boring to watch" is a subjective statement. I love late game SH usage personally. Everyone talked about the Reality vs Soulkey game. I think a few voices in the community are trying to apply their groupthink to the rest of us by insisting swarm hosts are bad and late games are a terrible thing. How many sc2 games end in 6 minutes because of a cheese? I find those super boring... A tournament had to deflose miniraiser because he went SH to provoc hours long games. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 07 2014 06:13 Xiphos wrote: Or StarBow, those guys take the basic concept of BW and added what SC2 did right in the game. It felt much more like a true successor to the most successful Esport game of all time. If you can't tell, he likes it a lot. Also, of all time. I think superior Moba might have passed BW up a while ago. | ||
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