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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:33 BisuDagger wrote: The real solution is to put back in burrow charge from HoTS beta. Put this in and now it's "Suprise Swarmhosts!" If the knock back unburrows Swarmhosts, this would be so fucking cool! | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:31 Plansix wrote: Yeah, I would rather they go half way and just say that massive units are pulled a shorter distance. Not only does it make sense, it still makes the ability useful. It seems a better middle of the road change. Even this is a massive hit tbh. The biggest problem for zerg in the late game vs air armies is the short range of corruptors, you have to get in the enemy wheelhouse to do any damage, and thus expose yourself to storm/PDDs/seekers/archon splash etc. Not to mention tempest volleys and yamotos dealing damage with no reciprocation. The zerg counter to this is to move the enemy unit away from it's supporting cast so it can be focused without your on air army getting torn to shreds. The zerg air force is completely awful in a straight up fight assuming equal supply and good army comps. I think you and some others underestimate just how pivotal abduct is for zerg to be able to deal with mass tempests/BC/raven etc. | ||
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:36 Musicus wrote: If the knock back unburrows Swarmhosts, this would be so fucking cool! I think we would see a lot of ultras dying to locusts while trying this, those damn little things hit like a truck. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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diverzee
Sweden992 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:33 Sapphire.lux wrote: The Viper should be the key IMO. Some sort of ling roach hidra combo on the ground and blinding cloud. That spell could force tanks to spread out so helping Zerg and making the game look cool at the same time. So much potential there instead of the retarded SH Raven crap we see. Vipers are already immensely strong vs mech. Zerg has little or no issue dealing with ground based mech, roach/hydra with vipers can deal fine already. It's the air armies that are the real killers. And that's where the viper goes from great to outright mandatory. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:32 Squat wrote: What prevents them from just making the broodlord immune exclusively? Ultras are immune to roots and snares. I think elegance is part of the problem, if you have more exceptions than rules it becomes very hard to understand the game. Maybe make it so Abduct doesn't work vs Biological units? This would fix the problem with Abduct vs Brood Lord without affecting ZvMech or ZvP. Another potential fix imo is to reduce the size of locusts, this would make banelings more effective vs them and baneling / ultra can actually wreck SH compositions in ZvZ (The banelings clear a wave of locusts and the ultralisks can't be stopped by fungal so they run in and decimate the SH's before the next wave spawns). It would also be a slight buff to other AoE counters to SH (Tanks and Hellions / Hellbats, Collosi and Storm). This also runs the risk of giving locusts more dps / surface area though. | ||
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sumsaR
Sweden1812 Posts
There, solved it. | ||
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Moonrisesc
Netherlands38 Posts
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KristofferAG
Norway25712 Posts
free units are still a-okay?  | ||
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Kylo55
Poland64 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:32 Squat wrote: What prevents them from just making the broodlord immune exclusively? Ultras are immune to roots and snares. Yeah i second that thought. The abduct problem is with BL only. It's absolutely necessary to have it vs collosi-tempest. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:18 Falling wrote: Well, that's why waiting a bit longer isn't too bad. Did Stephano break ZvZ and everyone else is behind the curve and we're about to get inundated with SH stalemates? Or is this a freak game? In my heart of hearts, I'd like to think that it couldn't be possible to even have such a freak game, that design could preclude such a possibility. But who knows with how people will play. What does make it disturbing is it was such a bad stalemate in maxed army, macro situation. Rather than a weird base trade where someone has a cannon left and the other has a DT left and neither can attack the other. That's hard to account for, but it's also very rare. Maxed, macro games are a lot easier to get to. A lot easier to repeat the conditions that led to a stalemate. But for that reason, a wait and see is for the best, imo. (Even if I think SH's inherently lend themselves to passive gameplay.) I agree. I can't help but feeling, yet again, that Blizzard would be better to ignore the hysteria. To be fair, they have conceded these are just preliminary thoughts. Still, I'd hate to see HOTS degenerate into patch-a-lot WOL. Wait and see, Blizzard. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:41 sumsaR wrote: "Abduct can't be used on flying massive units." There, solved it. How would you kill tempest balls? The spore is definitely the issue. The problem with the swarm host style is that if you put up spores there is almost nothing that can kill your swarm hosts. Without the spore buff it would be different. People would have more opportunities to gogo muta switches. | ||
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Aiomon
Canada39 Posts
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
lol | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
It can be placed in the editor Just sayin | ||
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Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
On May 07 2014 02:30 Noocta wrote: But.. WHERE ? Seriously, I haven't seen Swarm Host being used outside of the stalemate type of games. At all. Why not changing the cause of the problem instead of always going around it.... I'd say that in a vast majority of games swarm host is used actively and in interesting way while the boring stalemate style is a minority. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On May 07 2014 04:40 Pursuit_ wrote: I think elegance is part of the problem, if you have more exceptions than rules it becomes very hard to understand the game. Maybe make it so Abduct doesn't work vs Biological units? This would fix the problem with Abduct vs Brood Lord without affecting ZvMech or ZvP. Another potential fix imo is to reduce the size of locusts, this would make banelings more effective vs them and baneling / ultra can actually wreck SH compositions in ZvZ (The banelings clear a wave of locusts and the ultralisks can't be stopped by fungal so they run in and decimate the SH's before the next wave spawns). It would also be a slight buff to other AoE counters to SH (Tanks and Hellions / Hellbats, Collosi and Storm). This also runs the risk of giving locusts more dps / surface area though. I'm unconvinced, Dota 2 is riddled with exceptions and special rules, yet pulls huge viewer numbers consistently. It's confusing one or two times. Anyone who would find something like that hard to process is not very likely to be watching competitive Sc2. People who are interested enough in this game to watch other nerds play games for hours on a friday night probably have a decent understanding of what is going on already. And honestly, the market for new players getting into Sc2 at this point is likely negligible. | ||
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-Kaiser-
Canada932 Posts
Vipers are harder to kill than infestors, so neural parasite will actually be useful again, but they're more vulnerable than vipers that use abduct. NP and Blinding Cloud will have better synergy than Abduct and Blinding Cloud. Solves the ZvZ problem because NPed Brood Lords won't shoot themselves or get abducted into spores while giving back Zerg's old method of dealing with Colossi and shit. Tah-dah. Fix old, unused spell to replace new (and stupid) broken one. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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