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Putting pressure on the authorities works in France (another national sport), it can work with sponsors, but it's not an universal solution to get what we want with anyone. Try that at work with your boss and see if it works (I did, it doesn't )
Putting pressure on companies by bringing something public is much more efficient in the US than in France because of the strength of their consumer association and their class action ability. But yes we are the world champion of Putting pressure on government. At least it's one thing that we are not bad at :D .
Anyway things seems to move at least since we saw ToD annouced as casting replacement and finally cancelled so don't know what happened at ESL but this is surely related to this issue. Maybe they thought bringing ToD as replacement would be seen as a gigantic " we don't give a fuck" so they finally retracted at last moment.
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On February 19 2014 00:59 klup wrote:Anyway things seems to move at least since we saw ToD annouced as casting replacement and finally cancelled so don't know what happened at ESL but this is surely related to this issue. Maybe they thought bringing ToD as replacement would be seen as a gigantic " we don't give a fuck" so they finally retracted at last moment. I'd have thought it was because ToD solo casting for however many hours it will take would be a bit hard 
But at least it shows that there are attempts to do something.
The ESL guys may be a bunch of corporate assholes who don't care about anything, but then again, when has ESL given the impression that they don't care? And if they *do* care and it still can't be done, maybe there are factors at play that we don't know about and can't do anything about except waiting for them to find a way?
What about giving them a chance and encouraging them to do so by showing how many people would appreciate it instead of bitching at them without *actually* knowing why?
And if they can't... well... they can't.
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Alll in all, Ogaming is fucked because they lost the money by not streaming Twitch (even if it is less than DM) and ESL win the money with a French stream now. Heh.
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The ESL guys may be a bunch of corporate assholes who don't care about anything, but then again, when has ESL given the impression that they don't care? And if they *do* care and it still can't be done, maybe there are factors at play that we don't know about and can't do anything about except waiting for them to find a way?
I wasn't mean in anyways. I just thought that ESL might have cancelled ToD replacement to not put more oil on top of the fire that's all. Sorry if you thought I was aggressive on that should have use better words.
ESL has done wonderful jobs with all their show so far so I support them as I support every Esport company that is contributiong to the emergence of Esport. I just want an happy ending solution to this because I care about Esport and I really think that if OgamingTv is going down it will be very bad for all of us (not only the french).
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I just don't understand the love that all these companies have for Twitch. It's a terrible streaming plaform, one of the worst out there. And yet everyone seems to be really eager to go to bed with them, so to speak. Is Twitch secretly funded by some megacorporation that shells out insane sums for exclusivity contracts? Guess we'll never know.
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On February 19 2014 01:15 klup wrote:
I wasn't mean in anyways. I just thought that ESL might have cancelled ToD replacement to not put more oil on top of the fire that's all. Sorry if you thought I was aggressive on that should have use better words. Not at all, it wasn't directed at you. It was regarding all the crap that's been thrown their way over both topics
On February 19 2014 01:15 klup wrote:
ESL has done wonderful jobs with all their show so far so I support them as I support every Esport company that is contributiong to the emergence of Esport. I just want an happy ending solution to this because I care about Esport And I think *that* is something everyone can agree on
On February 19 2014 01:15 klup wrote:
and I really think that if OgamingTv is going down it will be very bad for all of us (not only the french). It would be bad. Very bad for the entire world may be overstating it a bit, and they did make themselves quite a bit of bad publicity with the way they brought this up in public, but obviously, a company going down is never good (well... rarely )
Then again, from what I understand, SC2 is far from being their main revenue source and they should be fine anyway. And in the end, as bad as the situation may be (and we don't know anything about it), this as no impact whatsoever on the matter at hand. ESL cannot and should not be held accountable for the financial stability of OGaming. Bad things happen even to good people.
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On February 19 2014 01:17 sigm wrote:
I just don't understand the love that all these companies have for Twitch. It's a terrible streaming plaform, one of the worst out there. And yet everyone seems to be really eager to go to bed with them, so to speak. Is Twitch secretly funded by some megacorporation that shells out insane sums for exclusivity contracts? Guess we'll never know.
No, its was founded out of Justin.tv, one of the early streaming platforms. And all the streaming platforms suck in different regions. Shockingly, it is difficult to broadcast perfectly across the entire globe at the same time.
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On February 18 2014 23:52 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 23:47 WGT-Baal wrote:As you said, ESL does not owe anything to anybody. Right, aside from all the prize pools from every IEM from this year ^^ ... ESL accounting division has to be the worst in whole Germany. Still no proof of Twitch signing an exclusive contract with Blizzard this year ... no announcement in their blog despite twitch having done so in their blog last year.
Yes, but you know what I meant by my sentence...
All in all I hope there will be an agreement, and I really enjoy what Ogaming TV s been doing and it would be a shame if they stopped SC2. But it is up to them to fix those things. This is all I meant.
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On February 19 2014 01:17 sigm wrote:
I just don't understand the love that all these companies have for Twitch. It's a terrible streaming plaform, one of the worst out there. And yet everyone seems to be really eager to go to bed with them, so to speak. Is Twitch secretly funded by some megacorporation that shells out insane sums for exclusivity contracts? Guess we'll never know.
This may shock you, but Twitch works differently in different places. Here in the US, I've almost never had any problems with Twitch at all and have always found it to be much better than competing platforms like own3d, Ustream, Dailymotion, whatever random shit MLG used to use, etc.
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I think that we are experiencing the issue of being a fan of a sport which is owned by a company.
For the sake of esport, politics will have to interfere at some point (in like a few years). Just like the Kespa/Blizzard clash in Korea.
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Or i could outswag everyone and cast it on twitch.
do we have a deal ESL (come on i got 100mbps ! ) ?
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I do not understand why the debate is about twitch and dailymotion.
Today, I know money is very important in our mind and in our society but I guess we have to think to other things about this debate than money.
We - from Blizzard to TL community through O'Gaming - are all fans of a wonderful videogame that is not the first one anymore and is only the 6th in the list of most viewed games. So we all want Blizzard&ESL do their best to promote our game and we want our game to be seen, followed and liked to keep our pro gamers and good shows.
On the one hand, with all the tournaments, shows, visibility they gave to Starcraft II, O'Gaming and Millenium have to be respected. Indeed, they attracted a lot of people in the game and no one is able to create the same atmosphere as the O'Gaming's sofa or YoGo's commentaries. People look more Starcraft II in France than other countries thanks to these organizations.
On the other hand, the French scene is missing the WCS. Yesterday, there was no French stream. I even saw an Italian one popped out... I think Blizzard, ESL and the TL community do not want to see no French stream. It could trigger lots of thing in our fragile scene and no one wants too see SC2 disappear in our scene. Please let's be careful with the implications of "no stream of WCS" for the French scene.
My second point is about "professionalism". What do people want to see? What do you want to see? Do you wanna see concerts in shows like in Ironsquid or do you wanna see 2 average casters in their room casting WCS? In facebook, OGTV reached thousands of like supporting them because people want to watch big shows. They like the commentaries of Pomf&Thud, they like the sofa, the analysis, the break when they add a value to the stream.
We all want to help eSport and help it to become professionnal. O'gaming is really important for the whole scene, it helps players to be famous, it helps people to love SC2 and we have to help firms to become more and more professionnal by giving them the opportunity to stream the best competition.
With the labour cost in France, it's impossible to get a professionnal TV with twitch. The partnership between Millenium, aAa and O'Gaming shows it: no firm wants to take the risk of streaming it on twitch even if it is the main event of SC2. Please let's consider it: no one wants to stream WCS on twitch today because you lose money !
Two questions remains:
1) Is no French stream respectful for this scene which gave a lot to SC2 and reached some records in terms of "non-speaking streams"?
2) Do you want professional streams?
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On February 19 2014 17:53 Stabillo wrote:
I do not understand why the debate is about twitch and dailymotion.
Today, I know money is very important in our mind and in our society but I guess we have to think to other things about this debate than money.
We - from Blizzard to TL community through O'Gaming - are all fans of a wonderful videogame that is not the first one anymore and is only the 6th in the list of most viewed games. So we all want Blizzard&ESL do their best to promote our game and we want our game to be seen, followed and liked to keep our pro gamers and good shows.
On the one hand, with all the tournaments, shows, visibility they gave to Starcraft II, O'Gaming and Millenium have to be respected. Indeed, they attracted a lot of people in the game and no one is able to create the same atmosphere as the O'Gaming's sofa or YoGo's commentaries. People look more Starcraft II in France than other countries thanks to these organizations.
On the other hand, the French scene is missing the WCS. Yesterday, there was no French stream. I even saw an Italian one popped out... I think Blizzard, ESL and the TL community do not want to see no French stream. It could trigger lots of thing in our fragile scene and no one wants too see SC2 disappear in our scene. Please let's be careful with the implications of "no stream of WCS" for the French scene.
My second point is about "professionalism". What do people want to see? What do you want to see? Do you wanna see concerts in shows like in Ironsquid or do you wanna see 2 average casters in their room casting WCS? In facebook, OGTV reached thousands of like supporting them because people want to watch big shows. They like the commentaries of Pomf&Thud, they like the sofa, the analysis, the break when they add a value to the stream.
We all want to help eSport and help it to become professionnal. O'gaming is really important for the whole scene, it helps players to be famous, it helps people to love SC2 and we have to help firms to become more and more professionnal by giving them the opportunity to stream the best competition.
With the labour cost in France, it's impossible to get a professionnal TV with twitch. The partnership between Millenium, aAa and O'Gaming shows it: no firm wants to take the risk of streaming it on twitch even if it is the main event of SC2. Please let's consider it: no one wants to stream WCS on twitch today because you lose money !
Two questions remains:
1) Is no French stream respectful for this scene which gave a lot to SC2 and reached some records in terms of "non-speaking streams"?
2) Do you want professional streams?
I agree with all your saying. The fact that Millenium and OgamingTv made a partnership really force ESL to somehow deal with them. There is no other alternative for a professional French stream for WCS.
We will see what happen next cast on Thursday. Hope they will find an arrangement of some sort. I really think the survival of the SC2 Ogamingtv part is at stake here. Because they will never survive if they can't broadcast any major event this year again. They won't survive just with Nation Wars and an hypothetical Ironsquid 3
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1) They can stream on Twitch, they already did it a lot of time.
2) The medium they use won't change the professionalism of the casting AFAIK, it only requests to enter a different live-key in OBS.
The Italian stream was in Twitch. Every country streams on twitch and I doubt France gains less per ad than Romanian, Polish or Italian streams.
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Faust, you should take into account that if the activity were profitable on twitch, Millenium, aAa and O'Gaming would compete to get the stream. But it's not.
But with labour costs - the higher in Europe - it's impossible to stream on twitch and make a professionnal stream. Sure, they can stream from their room, but is it the sense of the story? Do you wanna see stream becoming more and more unprofessionnal? Is it the story you wanna write for eSports?
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I never heard about Twitch not being viable, just DM being more profitable.
Anyway, even if Twitch wasn't viable -and I really doubt it-, it's still a better option than nothing at all right?
Btw, SC2 is by no means at the 6th place in streamviews. Hell, We even got 1st in twitch views with the IEM with there were LSC running. It's not because there is TwitchPlaysPokemon which is super popular that sc2 is overthrown from its eternal 3rd place behind LoL and DotA2. Hell, SC2 is more and more popular recently, reaching almost 100k during the IEM when JD played.
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No it's not a better option if you lose money... or if you only are able to provide a bad-quality show because it could hurt your image (It would be a huge non sense: you can stream little tournament like UnderDogs on your studio, with the sofa, etc. and then you would stream the main SC2 event from your room? Public would think "WTF???") ... No it's not a better option than nothing in France. You never heard it because O'Gaming and Millenium were in negotiation with ESL. Now, thanks to this topic, you should know that French professionnal casters would lose money if they stream professionnally with twitch.
PS: Whoaaaa Dude, are you telling people that SC2 got more views than League of Legends & LCS? HA HA HA
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All I read was Ogaming lying saying ESL forbid them to stream WCS.
And I'm pretty sure french people are more willing to watch a stream with a lesser quality (even if this word means nothing when 2 guys say BS about a game that they don't understand on a couch) than watching nothing at all.
Edit : Yes they did beat LoL during the semi-finals. You can laugh as much as you want, it is true.
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If Twitch would actually work reliably i'd see ESl's Point.
But it doesn't, its like a lottery if twitch will be watchable or not... Whatever they did to make it work for TI3, they seemed to have reverted it the day TI3 ended....
I also got some minor issues with Dailymotion, but WAY less. Own3d worked perfect for me and so does the MLG Player... Twitch should just get their shit together.
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On February 19 2014 18:15 Faust852 wrote:
I never heard about Twitch not being viable, just DM being more profitable.
Anyway, even if Twitch wasn't viable -and I really doubt it-, it's still a better option than nothing at all right?
Btw, SC2 is by no means at the 6th place in streamviews. Hell, We even got 1st in twitch views with the IEM with there were LSC running. It's not because there is TwitchPlaysPokemon which is super popular that sc2 is overthrown from its eternal 3rd place behind LoL and DotA2. Hell, SC2 is more and more popular recently, reaching almost 100k during the IEM when JD played.
Then you didn't read correctly the thread. On numerous occasions we reminded people that twitch is very underdeveloped here, streams often show no ads at all cause there is no contract with advertising companies. No ads, no revenues, no sustainability.
Even Lwl quote said they tried to stream on twitch at first but lost too much money. Plus they probably ALSO have an exclusivity contract with DM in order to get the most revenue possible out of it. (Just supposing)
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EPT
