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Snake.69
Canada140 Posts
This way there is risk reward, and toss can still be caught offguard if too greedy and chrono mass probes.( Kind of like zerg lose to 4 gate pressure if mass drone). Just like terran has to save OC energy for scan in case of DTs around 7-8min mark. Also, third base will have a bigger window to hit a timing on it, right now if nexus finish u photon overcharge right away. In my head, this change+ mothership core vision is enough of a nerf to stop for 2months at least after that. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On February 19 2014 23:30 Wingblade wrote: "OMG, this 2 month period where a handful of established Protoss are winning consistently is worse than the Broodlord/Infestor period." Hahahahaha, "handful of established Protoss"!!!! That's the best one I've heard yet, thanks, made my day! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 20 2014 01:20 sitromit wrote: Hahahahaha, "handful of established Protoss"!!!! That's the best one I've heard yet, thanks, made my day! I know, who is this no name scrub, Hero? Talk about a guy riding imbalance to glory and beyond. I don't know how a no name player like him beat the all amarican hero, Polt. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
On February 20 2014 00:24 Bagi wrote: So back to the original question, has anyone tested how the widow mine splash actually works on the test map? Well I did, against AI because nobody seems to be playing the map (didnt see it once in the open games, and tried to make lobbies but nobody joined). It seems pretty strong as a direct combat unit, but it's really hard to tell as you can't try with specific compositions. Removing all the shields on stalkers in a pretty wide area could make it really good to defend greedy blink all ins, or at least make it dangerous for P to blink in. As I said in my previous post it will become really strong to defend early chargelots all ins. Don't know if it'll still be used later in the game though. To the sarcastic team above, the games look like shit because the oracle and blink combination make the matchup gimmicky as fuck and unfun to play, not even talking about how hard it is to scout exactly what is going on. It's not about winning or losing, even pro protosses agree that oracles are retarded and blink too strong... | ||
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
I'd much rather they just scrap it and give us scourge or something. | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On February 15 2014 15:50 plogamer wrote: Who are both Protoss, so given the current meta, it'd be like if they were zergs in BL/Infestor era. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 20 2014 01:49 Squat wrote: Can't do much with corruptors tbh. They are like flying roaches with no cool burrow stuff. They shoot things. That's it. No micro potential, no fun utility. I'd much rather they just scrap it and give us scourge or something. Remove corruption, add the "Red alert 3 Arcula" special torpedo. | ||
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Adrenalinn
7 Posts
On February 20 2014 01:46 hfsrj wrote: Very nice. Love Desrow agreeing with Scarlett on buffing Corruptor. PLZ DO. This, yet sadly DK doesn't listen to the community  What would be the drawback really? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 20 2014 05:07 Adrenalinn wrote: This, yet sadly DK doesn't listen to the community What would be the drawback really? Drawback: Breakdown of Protoss Airplay into a WoL state, in which mass Corruptor would beat all Protoss air. Really, the last thing this game needs is Zerg (or any other race) being able to just make 1 type of unit to counter a broad amount of options that the opponent could deploy. Even worse, if such units have to exist they should at least be fun to play with (and against), not Corruptors. Or, let me rephrase this: Which sane Protoss would build Air Units if Corruptors on top of countering Phoenix/Oracle/Tempest/Carrier would also counter Void Rays. Whole parts of PvZ gameplay would break down when Zerg could just spam out Corruptors to deal with Protoss Air. Also, Corruptors are very good antiair units in general. What they aren't is interesting or versatile. | ||
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Snake.69
Canada140 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 20 2014 05:45 Big J wrote: Drawback: Breakdown of Protoss Airplay into a WoL state, in which mass Corruptor would beat all Protoss air. Really, the last thing this game needs is Zerg (or any other race) being able to just make 1 type of unit to counter a broad amount of options that the opponent could deploy. Even worse, if such units have to exist they should at least be fun to play with (and against), not Corruptors. Or, let me rephrase this: Which sane Protoss would build Air Units if Corruptors on top of countering Phoenix/Oracle/Tempest/Carrier would also counter Void Rays. Whole parts of PvZ gameplay would break down when Zerg could just spam out Corruptors to deal with Protoss Air. Also, Corruptors are very good antiair units in general. What they aren't is interesting or versatile. It's the degree to which Corruptors suck vs Voidrays. Voidrays can deal with Corruptors so ridiculously fast it is not even funny. Also, Corruptors are checked by Archons and to a lesser extend storm and stalkers. Buffing them slightly vs Voidrays (and preferably Ravens) would not be a problem in this game AT ALL. Making them cooler would be amazing, VR is the epitome of amove | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On February 20 2014 06:55 SC2Toastie wrote: It's the degree to which Corruptors suck vs Voidrays. Voidrays can deal with Corruptors so ridiculously fast it is not even funny. Also, Corruptors are checked by Archons and to a lesser extend storm and stalkers. Buffing them slightly vs Voidrays (and preferably Ravens) would not be a problem in this game AT ALL. Making them cooler would be amazing, VR is the epitome of amove So don't FLAT buff them. Redesign them so they suck less versus void rays and aren't cost efficient versus literally everything else. And make them exciting. Buffing them is incredibly dumb unless you just hate Protoss blindly. | ||
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Lain1911
United States17 Posts
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
On February 20 2014 07:37 Wingblade wrote: So don't FLAT buff them. Redesign them so they suck less versus void rays and aren't cost efficient versus literally everything else. And make them exciting. Buffing them is incredibly dumb unless you just hate Protoss blindly. Like most of us? ^^ But I do agree with changing them, not just buffing. I feel like a lot of zerg units need that fast-weak-swarmy feel to them again. | ||
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Eliezar
United States481 Posts
Just not to the point of devourers. | ||
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Adrenalinn
7 Posts
On February 20 2014 05:45 Big J wrote: Drawback: Breakdown of Protoss Airplay into a WoL state, in which mass Corruptor would beat all Protoss air. Really, the last thing this game needs is Zerg (or any other race) being able to just make 1 type of unit to counter a broad amount of options that the opponent could deploy. Even worse, if such units have to exist they should at least be fun to play with (and against), not Corruptors. You mean like voidrays? The suggestion isn't to make corruptors directly counter voidrays, but rather to make them more interesting, less complete dogshit vs every air unit in the game. They're an anti-air flyer that's only actually good vs ground units (collossus). Yeah you gotta make them in some situations, like vs phoenix or maybe vs bcs in the rare occasions (but even then corruptors usually lose out given the bc/raven comps), but ultimately it's just a unit that is logically inconsistent. It doesn't have a proper place in the game right now because it doesn't make sense. | ||
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Rollora
2450 Posts
however: @TL or whoever made the interviews/gathered the thought processes of the progamers: awesome. Hearing noobs like us complaining about changes is one thing (and really, sometimes developements in the metagame can be seen way before they get to pro levels at our noob level, but this is no excuse for constant whining on the noob level of things), but hearing the pros' opinions is just great. Thx for that, thx for the ammount of players you asked and how you did it (splitting it up for every change etc), there was not only a good thought process going on, but also effort,that went into it. Me like  | ||
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Eliezar
United States481 Posts
As for can the game be balanced...sure it can be reasonably balanced. First of course you need to define balance. If you make it that on pro authorized maps all races have at least a 46% win rate against all other races then bam we have it and we have had numbers around those off and on for the duration of starcraft 2. I don't know why people want to bring up warp gate. You can look at offensive ground army harassment options. Terran has drops and can often drop their entire army. These drops come with healing and the ability to rapidly evacuate the units. This often leads early game to keeping units at home and late game into base trades. Terran also has speedy hellions to just run around and mobile reapers that can abuse terrain and self heal. Protoss has proxy pylons and warp prisms. Can warp in as many units as they have gateways, but escape requires a mothership core to be with the harassment (not likely). Warp prism storm drops are excellent worker harass. Protoss also has blink stalkers that can abuse terrain every 10 seconds. Zerg has nydus, drops, and the fastest ground army. Zerglings can easily do run by's and have very high dps per food investment. If Zerg gets drops they can always drop their entire ground army. Nydus is mostly used as an early midgame all in type play or to get slow units across the map faster. They also have burrowed movement for roaches and infestors that has won many a pro game. I can tell you right now that Protoss would love to have a Nydus like warp gate that would allow their entire army to walk into a hidden spot and escape back. Zerg would love to have overlords that were fast and could also heal their dropped units (building swipes and their disposable lings/roaches live a little longer to ensure the snipe?). Terran would love to have the ability to have their units arrive from medivacs inside the base rather than having to only use loaded units. Its just so silly to focus on 1 mechanic and say nobody else can do that. Protoss has ZERO healing...maybe that makes them the worst? Terran has both the repair option and Medivacs which are super powerful...queens have long been amazing with ultras and broodlords..or timely transfuses to save a hatch or spore or another queen. Its the differences between the races that have made blizzard RTS games so good. Bloodlust was way overpowered in war2, but it was a fun game. StarCraft took it to the next level although balance has always been a bit tougher. Still...overall I think the problems with starcraft center around the scale and speed of the game and just a few stupid units. I'll put swarmhosts and broodlords in that group as the only units I just hate within the game design. I wish the game played out in slower battles (way reduce dps, especially for stimmed bio) over more bases. But the game is overall pretty good. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
For some reason there is a tendency on this forum to have people say: "we don't want races to play the same, we want them to be different" without recognizing that if the races are too different the game becomes completely unstable. You need each race to have harassment options, to have powerful late-game armies, to have scouting units, and so on. Otherwise one race might have to concede some strategic goals straight away, which reduces the depth of the game because you literally have fewer things to fight for. If you look at Warcraft 3, the factions in that game have a lot in common. They all have heroes, similar tech paths, item shops. Imagine if there was one faction where the designers made the choice to not give them access to heroes, out of some ill-conceived desire to have asymmetrical design. It would be horrible, the race would have nothing in common with the other ones. | ||
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