• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:13
CEST 01:13
KST 08:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)34Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) [D] Wireframe Casting Removed Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Etiquete rules in Asl? BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map)
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7962 users

Some issues with turtle playstyles in Starcraft 2 - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 All
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
February 12 2014 19:44 GMT
#261
Simple Idea: DRASTICALLY reduce the resources present in main, a bit less in natural, and a good/average size in the 3rd location.

What is a mineral patch now? 1500? Make it 500 in the main, 750/1000 in the natural, and Regular in the other bases. Force people to be aggressive and take bases.
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 12 2014 19:49 GMT
#262
On February 13 2014 04:44 Slardar wrote:
Simple Idea: DRASTICALLY reduce the resources present in main, a bit less in natural, and a good/average size in the 3rd location.

What is a mineral patch now? 1500? Make it 500 in the main, 750/1000 in the natural, and Regular in the other bases. Force people to be aggressive and take bases.


No, that's a stupid solution as it leads to situation where you can easily kill a player if you due a very aggressive timing designed to contain on the enemy on 1 or 2 bases.

The best economic solution is to just reintroduce the BW model with even more diminishing returns on workers stacking, so say, if you have 60 workers vs 60 workers, but you have 6 bases compared to the enemy's 3 you'll have like roughly 40% more income, or something like that.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
February 12 2014 19:55 GMT
#263
On February 13 2014 04:49 Destructicon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 04:44 Slardar wrote:
Simple Idea: DRASTICALLY reduce the resources present in main, a bit less in natural, and a good/average size in the 3rd location.

What is a mineral patch now? 1500? Make it 500 in the main, 750/1000 in the natural, and Regular in the other bases. Force people to be aggressive and take bases.


No, that's a stupid solution as it leads to situation where you can easily kill a player if you due a very aggressive timing designed to contain on the enemy on 1 or 2 bases.

The best economic solution is to just reintroduce the BW model with even more diminishing returns on workers stacking, so say, if you have 60 workers vs 60 workers, but you have 6 bases compared to the enemy's 3 you'll have like roughly 40% more income, or something like that.


Yeah I mentioned this earlier in the thread, does anyone know if there's a way to use starbow/sc2bw's economy on normal sc2 maps and see how it plays out, no balance changes aside? Or at the very least worker wandering, I know blizz has put their foot on the ground for no distinct economy changes, but they've 180'd on other issues, too ex: "we think competitive maps and ladder maps should be distinct" circa 2011 gdc
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 12 2014 21:16 GMT
#264
On February 13 2014 04:55 HeavenResign wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 04:49 Destructicon wrote:
On February 13 2014 04:44 Slardar wrote:
Simple Idea: DRASTICALLY reduce the resources present in main, a bit less in natural, and a good/average size in the 3rd location.

What is a mineral patch now? 1500? Make it 500 in the main, 750/1000 in the natural, and Regular in the other bases. Force people to be aggressive and take bases.


No, that's a stupid solution as it leads to situation where you can easily kill a player if you due a very aggressive timing designed to contain on the enemy on 1 or 2 bases.

The best economic solution is to just reintroduce the BW model with even more diminishing returns on workers stacking, so say, if you have 60 workers vs 60 workers, but you have 6 bases compared to the enemy's 3 you'll have like roughly 40% more income, or something like that.


Yeah I mentioned this earlier in the thread, does anyone know if there's a way to use starbow/sc2bw's economy on normal sc2 maps and see how it plays out, no balance changes aside? Or at the very least worker wandering, I know blizz has put their foot on the ground for no distinct economy changes, but they've 180'd on other issues, too ex: "we think competitive maps and ladder maps should be distinct" circa 2011 gdc


Well the creators of Starbow said that they worked on the economy for ages to try and make it similar to BW, so I'm not sure how easy its going to be. In theory if you find the winning formula you could make an extension mod out of it.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Eliezar
Profile Joined May 2004
United States481 Posts
February 13 2014 08:16 GMT
#265
On February 12 2014 10:41 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I wouldnt say as many, and I do think bw is the better game, but people sometimes act like bw was only the modern era of good maps and a balanced state.

Bw had balance crying as well, some of it well documented on this site if you search I bet. Especially pvz.


I just remember a famous Broodwar player stating.

Why is it that as Terran I cannot build two barracks at an expansion and when they finish start mining from them? That's what zerg does...

lol
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1981 Posts
February 13 2014 08:30 GMT
#266
On February 12 2014 16:17 MyrMindservant wrote:
Regarding all those ideas about increasing supply limits, this is certainly a possible approach but it is not the only one. The very same issue can be approached from the opposite angle. Instead of increasing supply limit to accommodate for SC2's economy and more rapid production, we can slow down the economy and production.
This can net us similar result with several benefits compared to the limit increase.

1. Hardware issue. With larger limits from both sides we would increase hardware requirements of the game. This is not always an issue but it certainly can be one in some cases. There's a reason pro players usually don't use high graphical settings. Plus, while 1vs1 is considered the main game mode, team games (2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4) are still played by people and they usually put a much higher load on the user's PC because of the amount of units involved.
2. Micro and game pace issues. The more units you have the less time and attention you can spend on microing them.
In low counts many units can be microed individually or in small groups which may enhance their performance greatly. But when you have a lot of them, microing just becomes less and less efficient because it is physically impossible to spent the same amount of attention/time per unit/group. At some point you can't do anything better than to A move most of your troops and micro only a select few or spend your APM elsewhere instead. The game is played in real-time, so there's only that much you can do during a given time period.
You would have more time/opportunity to micro because critical amount of firepower, when the fights tend to end very quickly, will be harder and slower to reach for both sides. Which in its turn would reduce those cases when you are losing the whole game just because you weren't looking at the exactly right spot for ~3 seconds and lost something very important, like half of your army, before you could react.
Additionally, in large mass units start to hinder each other because of map constraints and even pathing issues.

I feel like I can elaborate on all this a lot more and make many examples, but it's probably not needed. I'm not the only one who thought about this and probably not the first one who mentioned something similar to this.
This approach is much better than simply increasing max limit, but it also requires more effort from developers. And, what's more important, it involves making changes to the very core game mechanics, like economy and production as well as rebalancing a lot of things.


I agree, but it will never happen.
Total Annihilation Zero
Prev 1 12 13 14 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:00
FSL playoffsTeamLeague STvsASH
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
22:00
Best Games of SC
ByuN vs Clem
MaxPax vs TBD
Serral vs ByuN
GgMaChine vs Bunny
PiGStarcraft527
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft527
ViBE162
JuggernautJason129
Vindicta 1
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 46
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm130
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox226
Mew2King159
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr69
Other Games
gofns8850
tarik_tv6536
Grubby3046
shahzam1144
ToD261
XaKoH 146
Liquid`Hasu126
PPMD27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1457
BasetradeTV192
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 33
• davetesta32
• RyuSc2 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21717
Other Games
• Shiphtur820
• tFFMrPink 8
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
48m
RSL Revival
9h 48m
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
10h 48m
Epic.LAN
13h 48m
IPSL
16h 48m
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
1d 9h
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 10h
OSC
1d 13h
IPSL
1d 16h
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.