On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
i couldnt imagine any progamer turning down a job at Blizzard as a balance designer or whatever else.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
well 2 things come to mind, before u consider therapy
1. that info is real bogus, if u can give an actual quote, not just " i think i read, someone said he talked to someone who wrote to DK". Afaik progamers are consulted, maybe their opinions arent taken into consideration very much, but they can be heard. 2. Assuming it s what really happened, imagine the danger in it. Boxer says in an interview or w/e, that he told David Kim XYZ is wrong with the game. Now what a community backclash could that unleash....
Dont get me wrong, i would love if (former) pros would balance the game rather then a bunch of data-analysts and 1-2 guys who actually have a grasp of how to play, but it has a lot of dangers. Imo the best solution would be to hire reputable players who retired/thinking of retiring, and consult current top level players. Rather then obey the wishes of the pros or to ignore them alltogether.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
well 2 things come to mind, before u consider therapy
1. that info is real bogus, if u can give an actual quote, not just " i think i read, someone said he talked to someone who wrote to DK". Afaik progamers are consulted, maybe their opinions arent taken into consideration very much, but they can be heard. 2. Assuming it s what really happened, imagine the danger in it. Boxer says in an interview or w/e, that he told David Kim XYZ is wrong with the game. Now what a community backclash could that unleash....
Dont get me wrong, i would love if (former) pros would balance the game rather then a bunch of data-analysts and 1-2 guys who actually have a grasp of how to play, but it has a lot of dangers. Imo the best solution would be to hire reputable players who retired/thinking of retiring, and consult current top level players. Rather then obey the wishes of the pros or to ignore them alltogether.
"In SC1, even builds had a history. It was on a course of innovation. If you look at PvZ, there was 2 Gate, 1 Gate, and they even came up with forge double nexus. Protosses were so bent on being safe from early lings until came the Bisu build. If you keep balancing a game saying that it's too hard without even going through these cycles then your game ends up being a never ending beta test. I even heard that Boxer had emailed David Kim about this. Judging from his skepticism, I don't think David Kim ever replied.
And David Kim is not biased? I'm sure one race is his strongest and one is his weakest. Besides I highly doubt dk plays on anything close to pro level and given how hard he stomps other blizzard employees in any video we ever see them play in, I doubt anyone at blizz is playing this game at a decent level. Ofc you shouldn't listen to 1 pro gamer, but I'd much rather see 20ish pros from all 3 races balance this game then the people at blizzard who are currently doing it.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
You make me feel guilty
Awww, it's not your fault. The ongamers article was just pretty poor, full of faulty and vague information. This is newsworthy though, I think, sadly we lack a better source and a lot of information at this point.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
You make me feel guilty
I'd be all for remaking this whole thing just to clear the built-up baggage.
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
A baker will get a lot of negative comments if he makes bad bread.
People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
well 2 things come to mind, before u consider therapy
1. that info is real bogus, if u can give an actual quote, not just " i think i read, someone said he talked to someone who wrote to DK". Afaik progamers are consulted, maybe their opinions arent taken into consideration very much, but they can be heard. 2. Assuming it s what really happened, imagine the danger in it. Boxer says in an interview or w/e, that he told David Kim XYZ is wrong with the game. Now what a community backclash could that unleash....
Dont get me wrong, i would love if (former) pros would balance the game rather then a bunch of data-analysts and 1-2 guys who actually have a grasp of how to play, but it has a lot of dangers. Imo the best solution would be to hire reputable players who retired/thinking of retiring, and consult current top level players. Rather then obey the wishes of the pros or to ignore them alltogether.
"In SC1, even builds had a history. It was on a course of innovation. If you look at PvZ, there was 2 Gate, 1 Gate, and they even came up with forge double nexus. Protosses were so bent on being safe from early lings until came the Bisu build. If you keep balancing a game saying that it's too hard without even going through these cycles then your game ends up being a never ending beta test. I even heard that Boxer had emailed David Kim about this. Judging from his skepticism, I don't think David Kim ever replied.
And David Kim is not biased? I'm sure one race is his strongest and one is his weakest. Besides I highly doubt dk plays on anything close to pro level and given how hard he stomps other blizzard employees in any video we ever see them play in, I doubt anyone at blizz is playing this game at a decent level. Ofc you shouldn't listen to 1 pro gamer, but I'd much rather see 20ish pros from all 3 races balance this game then the people at blizzard who are currently doing it.
I forgot where he mentioned it, but David Kim once said that since his worst race was terran he would think that terran was fine when in reality they were a bit too strong.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
yup, this is blizzards outdated vision that doesn't actually work with esports at all.
EPT
