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United States33660 Posts
via: ZOTAC Cup
The New Year is still young, but we already had to make some tough choices. There is no easy way to say this, but the time has come to look to the future and evaluate new up-and-coming gaming titles for the ZOTAC Cup. Unfortunately that also means we have to make room for these changes and let some of our beloved tournaments go. Two new tournaments, one of them for North America, will be announced in the near future, but in order to make this possible, we are forced to hold the last ZOTAC StarCraft II North America Cup on Saturday, January 25th at 3pm PST.
Even though the North American StarCraft II tournament will end in January, the European edition will still proceed and the ZOTAC Monthly Finals will also be continued for the best players on the European server.
In May 2011 the very first North-American ZOTAC StarCraft II Cup kicked off and since then we had the honor to follow a variety of players from all over the world during the last few years whilst they battled it out for money and glory.
ZOTAC wants to thank everyone who competed and followed the ZOTAC StarCraft II NA Cup. Stories developed throughout the tournament as we witnessed huge upsets and glorious moments week after week. This is also the time to honor the most successful player of the tournament. By winning 17 ZOTAC StarCraft II NA Cups, the South Korean Zerg player HyuN aka Ko Seok Hyun is the untouchable leader in the Hall of Fame.
So choose your race and let us meet on the StarCraft II battlefields to make these final two tournaments a memory worthwhile!
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It's a shame, it was a good weekly tournament for EU, NA and kor players. 
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The WC3 ones also are ending :/ they were around for so long too.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 05:52 nGBeast wrote:
The WC3 ones also are ending :/ they were around for so long too.
Really? I didn't know ZOTAC did WC3 cups, but that's really sad :/
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Didn't have access to this thread for a while. Any reason why?
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They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up
I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean?
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a big shame !
Even is its a small event it is very regular and it was a nice way to spot new talents.
Also i remember it having 10 000+ viewers not so long ago (well mostly thanks to milleniumTV but still )
As long as the european one is alive its still sort of ''ok'' i guess
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sad to see one less weekly tournament but I didn't really get them having one for eu and one for na in the first place. I guess for some people playing on eu won't work but you had a lot of players that participated in both so hopefully we see more players in the eu one now instead.
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Russian Federation125 Posts
I think you people misunderstood the message. They're not closing all the sc2 cups, just the North American one.
Even though the North American StarCraft II tournament will end in January, the European edition will still proceed and the ZOTAC Monthly Finals will also be continued for the best players on the European server.
The NA cup always lacked players. I even think it only existed to bring some Koreans to the monthly finals. ;d
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 06:26 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 05:59 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 05:52 nGBeast wrote:
The WC3 ones also are ending :/ they were around for so long too. Really? I didn't know ZOTAC did WC3 cups, but that's really sad :/ ZOTAC WC3 end at 25th Jan with cup# 322 It begun 2007, one time weekly without any break. a list of all winners: http://www.readmore.de/index.php?cont=articles&id=5551&coverage=285
That is a lot of cups won by FoCuS and ReMinD O.o
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On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean?
NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date.
NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer.
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On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean?
Only few people signed up compared to the EU one. Guess that is why they are closing it.
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nooo zotac was pretty important for wc3 scene T_T
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 06:33 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? Only few people signed up compared to the EU one. Guess that is why they are closing it.
Yeah I misinterpreted Nerchio's comment as Zotac not respecting their own tournament. Didn't realise he was talking about the issue with low player participation.
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On January 17 2014 06:34 teddyoojo wrote:
nooo zotac was pretty important for wc3 scene T_T
not really, it was just easy money for chinese/koreans.
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So they are closing one of two existing SC2 cups (NA but not EU) but they are closing their only existing WC3 cup? Do I understand that correctly?
I think that would suck a lot and they should rather close both SC2 cups and leave the WC3 cup running because Zotac is much more important for WC3 than for SC2. SC2 has enough other tournaments but I think WC3 has almost nothing else now. And in general when I hear Zotac I immediately think of WC3, even though I never even really followed the game.
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Oh noooo, I love to check in on Zotac cup results to watch out for up and comers
I mean, the NA version had low sign ups, but it still sucks. I hope we'll be able to keep the EU one at least for a lot longer. Thanks to Zotac for doing it as long as they have though.
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didnt really see this coming but knew it was going to happen eventually. NA cup was never as popular as the EU one
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On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer.
Lack of region locking is what killed it.
Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella.
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On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella.
One of the reasons many people prefer to train on EU or Korean servers is the lack of competition on NA ladder. Even if there is no chance of winning the cup, every pro should jump at the opportunity to play top notch Korean pros in tournament settings, just for the opportunity of training.
So, yeah, there is tons of value in losing in R1 to some random Korean fella.
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On January 17 2014 08:05 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. One of the reasons many people prefer to train on EU or Korean servers is the lack of competition on NA ladder. Even if there is no chance of winning the cup, every pro should jump at the opportunity to play top notch Korean pros in tournament settings, just for the opportunity of training.
U can not possibly equate logging to a korean server and farming up game after game to waiting half an hour for a tournament to start to lose a single game.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella.
North America has been, comparatively, pretty fairly weak since pretty much day one. Even before the influx of Koreans, there were fewer competitive NA pros than there were pros from the other regions, and fewer tournaments were won by North Americans. Don't tell me region locking caused that. Here:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 08:07 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:05 ACrow wrote:On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. One of the reasons many people prefer to train on EU or Korean servers is the lack of competition on NA ladder. Even if there is no chance of winning the cup, every pro should jump at the opportunity to play top notch Korean pros in tournament settings, just for the opportunity of training. U can not possibly equate logging to a korean server and farming up game after game to waiting half an hour for a tournament to start to lose a single game.
You can not possibly equate playing ten matches (or more, provided you participate in a lot of online cups) in a competitive format, against elite competition, to logging on to the NA server and smashing your way through people who're simultaneously drinking on stream. There should be a little bit of both, but I've always thought that the idea that losing to vastly superior players is never a good thing is silly. People watch them play for ideas and inspiration, do they not? Taking them on yourself ever so often is not a bad thing. When it comes to the point when you can't sustain yourself then sure I can see the issue, but improving means losing. You don't improve if you never face someone better than you.
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On January 17 2014 08:12 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. North America has been, comparatively, pretty fairly weak since pretty much day one. Even before the influx of Koreans, there were fewer competitive NA pros than there were pros from the other regions, and fewer tournaments were won by North Americans. Don't tell me region locking caused that. Here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournamentshttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments
Yes it was a weak region, but it was the organizers choice to either support it and let it grow or to allow koreans to hammer it into oblivion. You can fault NA-ians for being weak but don't fault us for not showing up for an after school beatdown.
On January 17 2014 08:15 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:07 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 08:05 ACrow wrote:On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. One of the reasons many people prefer to train on EU or Korean servers is the lack of competition on NA ladder. Even if there is no chance of winning the cup, every pro should jump at the opportunity to play top notch Korean pros in tournament settings, just for the opportunity of training. U can not possibly equate logging to a korean server and farming up game after game to waiting half an hour for a tournament to start to lose a single game. You can not possibly equate playing ten matches (or more, provided you participate in a lot of online cups) in a competitive format, against elite competition, to logging on to the NA server and smashing your way through people who're simultaneously drinking on stream. There should be a little bit of both, but I've always thought that the idea that losing to vastly superior players is never a good thing is silly. People watch them play for ideas and inspiration, do they not? Taking them on yourself ever so often is not a bad thing. When it comes to the point when you can't sustain yourself then sure I can see the issue, but improving means losing. You don't improve if you never face someone better than you.
There is no value in losing to a vastly superior player. You won't be able to analyze that in any way shape or form. There is only value in losing to people slightly better. That's regarding to anyone who isn't actually good and their motivation.
Regarding the aspiring pros, people who actually are good - youre twisting that on purpose. I said you can go to EU or Kr servers, or hell you can play custom against other pros. And you're mentioning drunk NA players. Who's talkign about that? Please.
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On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella.
Bullshit, it's a good way to train vs good players in a competitive environment on the NA server - a lack of which NA pros constantly complain about.
Additionally you're way exaggerating the amount of Koreans who usually participated in the cups. Hitting one in R1 would've been super unlucky, for the longest time you could easily get through to the bracket phase if you were a decent player.
Even in mid 2013 players as terrible as Dragon made the finals of ZOTAC NA Cups.
If you really think that a serious progamer who's trying to get better gains less from playing a Bo3 vs a Samsung B teamer than playing vs avilo on ladder or something you have to be kidding me.
By the way, you know how the chances of a NA player to beat a Korean might have increased? If more than 15 NA players had signed up for the cups in the first place.
I mean, just look at the grids.
http://sc2na.zotac-cup.com/en/cups/613-zotac-starcraft-ii-na-cup-83/matches/grid
Koreans were actually beaten quite often. Usually though by EU players who signed up and had to play with the same lag as the Koreans.
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On January 17 2014 08:26 StarVe wrote:
If you're really implying to say that a serious, hard working progamer gains less from playing a Bo3 vs a Samsung B teamer than playing vs avilo on ladder or something.
Yes that's exactly what i'm implying when i mention europe and korean ladders as well as custom games.
Exactly
On January 17 2014 08:26 StarVe wrote:
Koreans were actually beaten quite often. Usually though by EU players who signed up and had to play with the same lag as the Koreans.
I know this serves as a great ego boost for you, but I've played on EU. There is no lag.
I'll concede to yall that NA scene mightve been dead either way. But without region lock, it was guaranteed that it won't work.
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On January 17 2014 08:32 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:26 StarVe wrote:
If you're really implying to say that a serious, hard working progamer gains less from playing a Bo3 vs a Samsung B teamer than playing vs avilo on ladder or something. Yes that's exactly what i'm implying when i mention europe and korean ladders as well as custom games. Exactly
Well, you do have worse ping to the other servers as a NA resident, so it's not feasible for everyone and probably close to unplayable for some. If good players come to your server I don't see any reason why you shouldn't try to get a few games in with them. It's not like you have to sit there waiting for the games to start, players ladder all the time during those cups.
And ZOTAC was literally just once a week, if you can't spare one evening out of your practice schedule full of laddering on non-NA servers, that's a bit telling, too.
Fancy responding to some other things I wrote and not just the one thing where I was totally wrong?
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What a shame, ZOTAC was great with these online tournaments and the games delivered.
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good bye zotac cup you'll forever be remembered as that tournament i always told myself i'd watch but consistently forgetting about it, but always checking the results on TLPD.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 17 2014 08:18 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:12 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. North America has been, comparatively, pretty fairly weak since pretty much day one. Even before the influx of Koreans, there were fewer competitive NA pros than there were pros from the other regions, and fewer tournaments were won by North Americans. Don't tell me region locking caused that. Here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournamentshttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments Yes it was a weak region, but it was the organizers choice to either support it and let it grow or to allow koreans to hammer it into oblivion. You can fault NA-ians for being weak but don't fault us for not showing up for an after school beatdown. Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:15 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 08:07 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 08:05 ACrow wrote:On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. One of the reasons many people prefer to train on EU or Korean servers is the lack of competition on NA ladder. Even if there is no chance of winning the cup, every pro should jump at the opportunity to play top notch Korean pros in tournament settings, just for the opportunity of training. U can not possibly equate logging to a korean server and farming up game after game to waiting half an hour for a tournament to start to lose a single game. You can not possibly equate playing ten matches (or more, provided you participate in a lot of online cups) in a competitive format, against elite competition, to logging on to the NA server and smashing your way through people who're simultaneously drinking on stream. There should be a little bit of both, but I've always thought that the idea that losing to vastly superior players is never a good thing is silly. People watch them play for ideas and inspiration, do they not? Taking them on yourself ever so often is not a bad thing. When it comes to the point when you can't sustain yourself then sure I can see the issue, but improving means losing. You don't improve if you never face someone better than you. There is no value in losing to a vastly superior player. You won't be able to analyze that in any way shape or form. There is only value in losing to people slightly better. That's regarding to anyone who isn't actually good and their motivation. Regarding the aspiring pros, people who actually are good - youre twisting that on purpose. I said you can go to EU or Kr servers, or hell you can play custom against other pros. And you're mentioning drunk NA players. Who's talkign about that? Please.
I don't think talent was ever a problem in NA. I think mentality was and is the core issue among many NA pros. "Koreans steal our money", "no region locking ruined us" - Koreans need to live too. There isn't enough room or money in Korea to sustain all the extremely talented and devoted players in South Korea, so they play in online cups hoping to sustain themselves. They usually dedicate more time and often take Starcraft more seriously. I understand that people want to see their local scenes prosper, but I'll never be able to understand the mentality that people who apparently put less time in should be given a (semi-)free pass.
Further, I have to wonder why Europe became a stronger region than North America. My focus was mostly based in Korea in 2010/2011, but weren't there more big tournaments in NA than there were in Europe? Tournaments that, contrary to popular belief, weren't yet swarmed by Koreans? I can buy the argument (although I think it's flawed) that playing much better players isn't helpful, but the NA-Europe connection was certainly there - European pros went to MLG and North American pros went to Dreamhack, yet one scene trailed behind and one scene (kind of) became stronger, despite Koreans "stealing their money".
As for "drinking NA pros", I feel like NA has the highest concentration of "personalities" . You're free to do whatever you want when you stream and when you play Starcraft in my eyes, but if one player likes to play a lot of joke games with subscribers and fans on stream and one player streams dedicated practise sessions where playing well and improving is the main focus, I'll support the latter and applaud him for his dedication rather than feel sorry for the former because he wasn't given enough oppurtunity. My personal opinion is that if you put in less time and/or effort, you don't deserve a chance to complain about better competitors beating you. Once you're on the same level in terms of time and effort spent, then there is a discussion to be had about whether or not it's fair that players from a system with better infrastructure is allowed in.
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On January 17 2014 08:41 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:32 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 08:26 StarVe wrote:
If you're really implying to say that a serious, hard working progamer gains less from playing a Bo3 vs a Samsung B teamer than playing vs avilo on ladder or something. Yes that's exactly what i'm implying when i mention europe and korean ladders as well as custom games. Exactly Well, you do have worse ping to the other servers as a NA resident, so it's not feasible for everyone and probably close to unplayable for some. If good players come to your server I don't see any reason why you shouldn't try to get a few games in with them. It's not like you have to sit there waiting for the games to start, players ladder all the time during those cups. And ZOTAC was literally just once a week, if you can't spare one evening out of your practice schedule full of laddering on non-NA servers, that's a bit telling, too. Fancy responding to some other things I wrote and not just the one thing where I was totally wrong?
there is no lag to europe. There is some lag to KR, but it's not too bad.
Other things? Well you're entitled to your opinion, i said my peace. I disagree for the reasons i already listed and if i'm wrong i'm wrong, if you're wrong you're wrong. No reason to go in circles with it.
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On January 17 2014 08:45 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:41 StarVe wrote:On January 17 2014 08:32 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 08:26 StarVe wrote:
If you're really implying to say that a serious, hard working progamer gains less from playing a Bo3 vs a Samsung B teamer than playing vs avilo on ladder or something. Yes that's exactly what i'm implying when i mention europe and korean ladders as well as custom games. Exactly Well, you do have worse ping to the other servers as a NA resident, so it's not feasible for everyone and probably close to unplayable for some. If good players come to your server I don't see any reason why you shouldn't try to get a few games in with them. It's not like you have to sit there waiting for the games to start, players ladder all the time during those cups. And ZOTAC was literally just once a week, if you can't spare one evening out of your practice schedule full of laddering on non-NA servers, that's a bit telling, too. Fancy responding to some other things I wrote and not just the one thing where I was totally wrong? there is no lag to europe. There is some lag to KR, but it's not too bad. Other things? Well you're entitled to your opinion, i said my peace. I disagree for the reasons i already listed and if i'm wrong i'm wrong, if you're wrong you're wrong. No reason to go in circles with it.
Similar to West Coast NA ping to KR being different from East Coast NA ping, the ping from Germany or France to NA is very much different from the ping from - let's say - Ukraine or Russia. I really don't care much about the ego boost you're referring to, you're a bit mistaken there.
Edit: Oh, you were talking about ping to EU from NA. Well, I'm afraid I can't talk about that, but I don't know if you can speak like there's no regional differences there at all, too. I mean, not everyone has a great internet connection here, in some places you just can't get one, I can't imagine it's much different in NA.
And why were there more EU players signing up for NA Zotac Cups than NA players? I mean, it's not that they were all the cream of the crop, there were some pretty average or just up and coming EU players trying to play on NA.
Are they wrong for trying to get some competitive experience vs better players and not playing customs or ladder on EU?
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On January 17 2014 08:44 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:18 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 08:12 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. North America has been, comparatively, pretty fairly weak since pretty much day one. Even before the influx of Koreans, there were fewer competitive NA pros than there were pros from the other regions, and fewer tournaments were won by North Americans. Don't tell me region locking caused that. Here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournamentshttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments Yes it was a weak region, but it was the organizers choice to either support it and let it grow or to allow koreans to hammer it into oblivion. You can fault NA-ians for being weak but don't fault us for not showing up for an after school beatdown. On January 17 2014 08:15 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 08:07 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 08:05 ACrow wrote:On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella. One of the reasons many people prefer to train on EU or Korean servers is the lack of competition on NA ladder. Even if there is no chance of winning the cup, every pro should jump at the opportunity to play top notch Korean pros in tournament settings, just for the opportunity of training. U can not possibly equate logging to a korean server and farming up game after game to waiting half an hour for a tournament to start to lose a single game. You can not possibly equate playing ten matches (or more, provided you participate in a lot of online cups) in a competitive format, against elite competition, to logging on to the NA server and smashing your way through people who're simultaneously drinking on stream. There should be a little bit of both, but I've always thought that the idea that losing to vastly superior players is never a good thing is silly. People watch them play for ideas and inspiration, do they not? Taking them on yourself ever so often is not a bad thing. When it comes to the point when you can't sustain yourself then sure I can see the issue, but improving means losing. You don't improve if you never face someone better than you. There is no value in losing to a vastly superior player. You won't be able to analyze that in any way shape or form. There is only value in losing to people slightly better. That's regarding to anyone who isn't actually good and their motivation. Regarding the aspiring pros, people who actually are good - youre twisting that on purpose. I said you can go to EU or Kr servers, or hell you can play custom against other pros. And you're mentioning drunk NA players. Who's talkign about that? Please. I don't think talent was ever a problem in NA. I think mentality was and is the core issue among many NA pros. "Koreans steal our money", "no region locking ruined us" - Koreans need to live too. There isn't enough room or money in Korea to sustain all the extremely talented and devoted players in South Korea, so they play in online cups hoping to sustain themselves. They usually dedicate more time and often take Starcraft more seriously. I understand that people want to see their local scenes prosper, but I'll never be able to understand the mentality that people who apparently put less time in should be given a (semi-)free pass. Further, I have to wonder why Europe became a stronger region than North America. My focus was mostly based in Korea in 2010/2011, but weren't there more big tournaments in NA than there were in Europe? Tournaments that, contrary to popular belief, weren't yet swarmed by Koreans? I can buy the argument (although I think it's flawed) that playing much better players isn't helpful, but the NA-Europe connection was certainly there - European pros went to MLG and North American pros went to Dreamhack, yet one scene trailed behind and one scene (kind of) became stronger, despite Koreans "stealing their money". As for "drinking NA pros", I feel like NA has the highest concentration of "personalities" . You're free to do whatever you want when you stream and when you play Starcraft in my eyes, but if one player likes to play a lot of joke games with subscribers and fans on stream and one player streams dedicated practise sessions where playing well and improving is the main focus, I'll support the latter. My personal opinion is that if you put in less time and/or effort, you don't deserve a chance to complain about better competitors beating you. Once you're on the same level in terms of time and effort spent, then there is a discussion to be had about whether or not it's fair that players from a system with better infrastructure is allowed in.
True-ish i think. There is simply no incentive for a NA player to get good other than the love of the game. No healthcare, higher prices, bigger stigma attached to playing computer games, lesser density of population, super expensive travel(hard to get to lans, hard to host lans), ridiculously high rent.
Eastern europe has played a great role in pushing e-sports in europe. In a region where Cypher can comfortably survive on his 600 a month salary and get the free healthcare he needs and pay 50-100 dollars a month in rent esports stops being just about the love of the game. It becomes a lucrative career option.
NA scene simply needs affirmative action. Without it it will be dead(or rather play league of legends). Do you think it should be dead if it's not competitive? Thats your choice. But don't fault the players.
Anyway enough with the derailment. Despite what i think is a very big mistake of not region locking it... and giving Goody a freewin against me when i was playing in Go4SC2 at the same time can't really fault Zotac for anything else.
As far as weekly tournaments go i think it was always one of the best. And with a history that long who can argue.
RIP!
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was gonna start playing in these after finding out EU was too laggy ;_; hopefully something else comes up to replace it to play in
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Wow. I didn't even realize NA ZOTAC Cup was still running.
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On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella.
Truer words have rarely been spoken
I played in about 50 of them. I've played hyun, polt, and tails more than most korean pro's have. I even cheesed polt out once. Greatest moment of my life.
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Online cups are a very under utilized resource for players.
Good practice for a monetary incentive?
Better skip out on that. - NA players
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Russian Federation262 Posts
The question is would it be Dota2 or LoL Zotac.
I hope it would be still SC2, my favorite game...
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On January 17 2014 08:03 1Dhalism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer. Lack of region locking is what killed it. Don't tell me there is any value in preparing and waiting for a zotac cup to lose in R1 to some random korean fella.
While I agree that the fast majority of players in the top2 are Koreans, I just want to point out that there are also more EU players in it than NA players, despite the NA cup starting at around midnight here. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ZOTAC_Cup/NA_Cups
So whatever hinders NA players to compete in this cup, it doesn't seem to hinder EU players nearly as much to compete at a worse time. Also I seriously doubt that anybody in Europe participates in these cups mainly for the money. With so many skilled players and bo3 single elimination format, so many random things can happen that the chance of winning the cup isn't very high, even if you're say Nerchio.
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On January 17 2014 06:31 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:On January 17 2014 06:00 Nerchio wrote:
They don't even respect their tournament there is like 30 people that sign up I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What do you mean? NA has no passion. The turnout was bad, viewership was bad. It's like every other NA event, whining and crying about the lack of them for months. Then one occurs and there's drop outs, no shows, forfeits, people who apparently can't remember that they've scheduled other shit since months before on that particular date. NA in general just seems to have a pretty poor attitude about the whole "professional" part of professional gamer.
A brief video to sum up the na scene to an outsider
+ Show Spoiler +
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Zotac, thank you for supporting NA as long as you did... looking forward to future games being sponsored by Zotac (Hearthstone?).
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EPT
