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Starbow - Page 48
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:19 Squat wrote: Sure you could. You'd be wrong, but you could certainly say it. What nonsense is this. If you like something, you are bandwagoner or fanboy. If you dislike something, you are a hater or a whiner. Such are the ways of the internet, and to question them is heresy. Mhm i am wrong cause you say so, i see. Maybe you could explain to me what is the big difference, why they work so well in starbow, if you actually care to discuss this. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: Mhm i am wrong cause you say so, i see. Maybe you could explain to me what is the big difference, why they work so well in starbow, if you actually care to discuss this. SC2BW was designed to be a replica of BroodWar while StarBow is designed to incorporate some of the ideas abilities and units into the engine/ui of sc2 and adjust and balance things accordingly. It has more freedom to adjust things to make it work than SC2:BW because it is not bound by the rules of being a clone. If you want to argue how well they've managed to succeed in this venture go ahead, I have very limited experience in starbow so I won't be able to argue one way or the other here. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:35 Ghanburighan wrote: Wow, I was one of the guys who was slow to be impressed by Starbow but the showmatch between Qxc and Sasquatch really looked excellent. I cannot wait to see more. Fortunately, there are a large number of events coming up. This series was AWESOME. So exciting to watch  | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:18 Zergrusher wrote: Not being a jerk, just being honest. People knew about the mod, but didn't care. That's why it shut down the first time. Your telling me a Mod that goes silent for 2 years......all of a sudden explodes onto the scene and yet not 1 person realizes how old it is or Whats truly pulling the strings behind the popularity? I don't Hate it, I hate the Tunnel vision surrounding it. If you look at it its mostly SC2BW, with a few random SC2 things + a ton of upgrades that clutter the game. Its a good mod, but people can't be blind. The Starbow creators do listen to feedback, but the problem is you can't make everyone happy, and if you try to do that, no one will be happy. Starbow has 80% BW stuff, The matchups play out mostly like BW's matchups, With little if any SC2 things about it. You can argue that Because its not SC2 its better, But if its not SC2, its SC2BW 2.0 with some random stuff tacked into it. I'm happy for the success of Starbow, but people have to think about things and not be so blind about it. Like if you actually look back on Starbow From 2012 to 2013 literally every version was completely different and absolutely crazy gameplay wise. and when 2014 hit they essentially got it working by making it Basically BW with little SC2 units(but using SC2 models) and a ton of upgrades that clutter and overcomplicate things. The catalyst for Starbow I think is people losing hope in SC2. 2 years ago SC2 was still new, and HotS hadn't come out yet. We still had hope. Everyone was expecting HotS to be a game changer and all the problems with SC2 would be fixed, but it just didn't happen. I mean the changes that I've seen SC2 just... not what you would call elegant. The Medivac and Hellbat, as well as the Thor constantly trying to be introduced as a "Hero unit", and then put back to the drawing board. David Kim is trying his best but being a good player doesn't mean you are a good game designer. I also think Dustin Browder had the heart, but came in with completely the wrong idea and didn't have enough knowledge of the game. I mean just the fact that Dustin Browder said the wraith "is not for eSports", when the wraith (by coincidence obviously) was the most eSport oriented unit in history, showed that he wasn't ready for making SC2 an esport when he never really paid attention to the one big esport game that was already out there. I also just feel like there's not much rational thought behind a lot of the game design, it all feels very emotionally and spontaneously driven. It never feels like there is a moment of, "okay lets take a step back a bit, what are we really trying to do here, how should we design this?". Its very basic stuff even for amateur game designers, but it doesn't feel like there is an actual structured game designing process in the blizzard house. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:30 Najda wrote: SC2BW was designed to be a replica of BroodWar while StarBow is designed to incorporate some of the ideas abilities and units into the engine/ui of sc2 and adjust and balance things accordingly. It has more freedom to adjust things to make it work than SC2:BW because it is not bound by the rules of being a clone. If you want to argue how well they've managed to succeed in this venture go ahead, I have very limited experience in starbow so I won't be able to argue one way or the other here. My point is that you have to tweak the numbers cause it doesn't really work with the ai, it will eventually be the same as in sc2, all the "good stuff" gets nerfed into oblivion OR people deal with "easy to execute op stuff". You can already see that there are certain problems, at least cause people try to play BW style and it just isn't the same really. I am most excited about starbow cause it shows that a little bit spread out armies (less clumping) in combination with high ground and the mining would work with the sc2 engine, that alone makes it feel "more exciting". | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
just my opinion on philosophy of micro to overcome "counter" (ie. vulture rather than countering with spell or unit. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:39 Pirfiktshon wrote: OMG I know the point is SC2:BW is literally a copy of BW what all bw players wanted out of the sequel is what starbow is .... I played starbow then went back to SC2 Ladder fights happen so fast and games end so quick you feel like you get nothing out of the game ....... The problem is SC2:BW feels nothing like BW due to the new engine. However we can't say that SC2:BW was a pointless venture. The ongoing discoveries in SC2:BW is what allowed Starbow to be what it is today. So we shouldn't get rid of SC2:BW because SC2:BW's developments are fundamental to Starbow. | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1977 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:49 jinorazi wrote: i too think having OP spells without smarcast serves better than weak spells with smartcast. just my opinion on philosophy of micro to overcome "counter" (ie. vulture rather than countering with spell or unit. Same oppinion here. Only some spells like "healing" should be smartcast/autocast. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
From the one game I saw, units still clumped up much like before. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:35 Ghanburighan wrote: Wow, I was one of the guys who was slow to be impressed by Starbow but the showmatch between Qxc and Sasquatch really looked excellent. I cannot wait to see more. Fortunately, there are a large number of events coming up. Same with me. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
I think the best approach to such controversial changes is to have a test version of StarBow for players to try out such things. Right now the editor wizards are doing work bugfixing and getting maps ready, so this kind of testing is probably a bit away. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 16 2014 09:56 Laertes wrote: We actually planned on, instead of nerfing everything, buffing everything. Buffs are easy to undo if you do them in small pieces and tend to be more sound design-wise then nerfs. I don't really follow your logic here, what happens if you see that pretty much all the spells are too strong (cause too easy to use, not really number wise) ? If you buff the units that are affected, all you do is nerf the spells and create problems in other situations. PS: i understand that i sound really negative, but truth is that i enjoy the mod too, i just "try to be objective" and don't hype it too much^^ | ||
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