Starbow - Page 155

On January 31 2014 06:46 RESOqub wrote:
There's something that feels off about the way this plays. Numbers don't line up right. Gasses don't line up right. It seems to breed passivity in most low level players who play it.

I'm sure its down to the different design but while I really like some aspects of it (micro and tank control) I can't stand the changes made to the macro element. This is as a Terran, by the way. This mod would be much more interesting if they could find a way to normalize the macro element to standard SC2 maps with a similar fast paced macro rhythm and control structure while keeping the interesting unit control elements. It's even little things that seem to have been done for purely pedantic reasons and to preserve BW build orders over SC2 build orders - a supply depot building in 36s instead of 30s. Why was this even done?

The best part of SC2 is the fast paced, enjoyable feel of the gameplay. Why is this mod preserving the more irritating, inexact bits of BW over the best bits of SC2?

On January 31 2014 10:02 Laertes wrote:


Really kalevi? Whining about balance? Gotta control the rage man.

(I apologize on his behalf he gets this way a lot when he loses)

On January 31 2014 10:11 404AlphaSquad wrote:


sorry I have an impulsive character :/
but while I am at it. What is with the viking? it doesnt counter anything. Either make it a wraith or a valkyrie. not a crappy combination of both. You cant counter mutas with them and you cant counter drops with them because it takes like 16 shots to kill a dropship. at least it can harrass I guess. so its a kinda a stalker role for terran.

and for the record, I give input if I lose or win. The reaper is imbalanced cause I played them vs someone like Hider and won.

On January 31 2014 10:33 Beastyqt wrote:


Vikings are decent against muta, but they are a support unit not a counter unit against them.

On January 31 2014 10:51 Hider wrote:
We see the Viking as a unit that while it isn't supposed to rape/hard counter Mutalisks (or other air units) its still suppsoed to be helpful in those situations. If properly microed, it can be really powerful against Mutalisks (and Scourges).
Besides that role, it can work as a mobile harass-oriented unit. However, we don't think its stats/damage values are functioning well enough yet. Its still a work in proces.
Its not supposed to counter dropships or medium/armored units.

On January 31 2014 00:51 Zhadez10 wrote:

Sure, but he popularized it. And yeah some players would literally only make one corsair to scout.

I agree tho, ideally you'd want corsairs and not have to rely on clunky storm/archons to deal with muta sniping.

On January 31 2014 13:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:


The Bisu build was an algorithm, it was invented by Bisu (and probably with the help of his coach and team mates), not gonna go further than that.

It really was the "air domination builds" that tipped it. 1 base stargate play actually doesn't give you air control, because you don't have the gas to continually pump corsairs, the first corsair just came at a slightly earlier time. That's why 3 hatch muta still destroys it, even then 3 hatch muta does pretty well against 2 base 1 stargate play.

RELIABLY being able to get an adequate number of corsairs out without dying was the key factor.

On January 31 2014 11:00 404AlphaSquad wrote:


so you want that terran has to rely only on goliaths and turrets as defense vs drops, (when meching ofc). Guess what type of air unit I want once sbow first expansion comes out? :D

On January 31 2014 13:29 FromShouri wrote:


Bisu didn't invent it, he was just the first to be able to mechanically execute it. It wasn't uncommon in the early days to have protoss FE with cannons and go corsair/dark templar, they just did it an inefficent way. Hell I saw Garimto do it against a KTF zerg I'm blanking on way back in like 2002. Also the coaches and players at MBC Heroes were the ones who actually sat down and went over everything. Bisu went on a vacation right before the finals and then practiced for like 3 days.

The idea is to use corsairs to scout zerg and harass overlords. You are suppose to only make 1 initially, to see what zerg is committing too. You then adjust your build as needed while using speedlots with +1 to harass the zerg and slow them down so you can get storm or if need be a robotics early for lurkers. You're only suppose to keep making corsairs if you see zerg committing to mutas. You're right that zergs went for mutas to snipe templars which is why you saw people massing corsairs. However going +1 corsairs is a lot of time and gas investment during the early/mid game. You need templar to deal with the hydra follow up and some zergs(jaedong included) went for more 3 hatch-> spire/den -> 5 hatch scourge/hydra then once they had a decent sized hydra army tech switch to mutalisks to snipe hts/harass.

On January 31 2014 04:50 Koz wrote:


This! Zerg only struggled against terrans. But at that time zergs generally dominated toss hard. Except on island/semi island maps.
Zergs were so late in winning a OSL because Nada, Boxer and Oov =]

On January 31 2014 13:33 sluggaslamoo wrote:


Only gonna say it one more time.

The Bisu build is an ALGORITHM, he invented it.

Edit: Ill clarify to not sound like such an ass
(The Bisu build couldn't have existed before Saviors 3 hatch ZvP because its an algorithm based on all of the things Savior could do)

On January 31 2014 14:17 fosc.cutezerg wrote:
hello everyone. i am Roman "Cute" bashirov, i am playing protoss, ex gml/top ml EU. i also had a lot of practice in bw,i played as zerg, my maximum was pgtour:A-, iccup:B. i am doing a starbow's content, glad to present myself ;p
http://twitch.tv/cutezergtv
http://youtube.com/cutesc2