Starbow - Page 141

They are the best choice against everything with severe limitations! Build time, energy based, high gas cost, super late tech, and need research to get their best abilities online. A unit that takes THIS much to get out and doing well should be amazingly strong. And its not like you can make Science Vessels the only unit in your army, you're usually only going to have few of these out. You'll never see somebody in a serious competitive game with 30 SVs and 10 marines.

On January 28 2014 01:22 Hider wrote:


We don't see it that way though. Just because its a tier 3 unit doesn't imply that it should dominate all tier 2 support units.

Obviously it should provide advantages, and IMO its advantages are still good enough for you to to want to get them in late game TvZ.

On January 28 2014 01:17 Laertes wrote:
The reason we changed irradiate seems to have to do with viewership. Starbow is supposed to be fun to play and to watch. It's not fun to watch the Mutas just get decimated, it's not exciting there's no way to prevent it. HOWEVER, I disagree with this philosophy because you can magic box in starbow. I think the change should be reverted because eventually, people will figure out that because of how the pathing system works, units spread proportionally to how far they are from each other. Let's say you select a larvae and fly around with your Mutas, pressing h will spread them out with a direct relationship to their selected larvae.

On January 28 2014 01:29 BlueLanterna wrote:
Why don't you actually post the possible changes that your team is thinking about.

On January 28 2014 01:21 Mensol wrote:
I wouldnt mind if you delete both Roach and Marauder from game.

On January 28 2014 01:29 BlueLanterna wrote:


Why don't you actually post the possible changes that your team is thinking about making so people are not talking about this issue in a vacuum with nothing to reference? It's easy to see why there are some complaints when a good option for taking care of big threats is nerfed and we don't see any ideas yet.

On January 28 2014 00:57 Big J wrote:


I don't think the problem is that it would be "game breaking". It just overshadows too many other units, so your choices kind of looked like (obviously I'm exaggerating, but just to get the idea):

best unit vs Mutalisk:
1.) SV
2.-4.) other units such as Marines, Goliaths, Vikings

best unit to snipe important other units such as spellcasters:
1.) SV
....
other units

best unit against clumps of small units:
1.) SV
....

best unit against ultralisks
1.) SV
....


This kind of leads to Terrans just getting SVs because they are kind of the best choice against everything with no real downside.
Now if the same scenario rather looks like:

best unit vs Mutalisk:
1.) Viking
2.) SV
...

best unit to snipe important other units such as spellcasters:
1.) SV
....

best unit against clumps of small units:
1.) Tank
2.) Mines
3.) SV
...

best unit against ultralisks
1.) Marauder
2.) Tank
3.) SV
...

then this means the Vessel is still strong, but it's not always just "the obvious choice" to go Vessel. Which means you should mix your composition up a little bit. Of course this also requires that the units you get instead forces the opponent to adapt to you, but that's the whole idea behind having many semi-broad units that can fullfill multiple roles, some a little better, and some a little worse.

On January 28 2014 01:52 plgElwood wrote:
Starbow needs a good "ladder" to compete with SC2 atm. Where is it?

On ICCup you had to find an opponent in Chat, you HAD to be social, also if gave you the opportunity for an instant rematch or a Training partner, all you do now is mindlessly press a button, and most players press again and again, even if their games getting worse everytime and they hurt their own skill by repeating mistakes

On January 28 2014 02:03 Censured wrote:
http://www.twitch.tv/censured
starbow zerg

On January 28 2014 00:52 SolidSMD wrote:

We think the cause is that bio is not strong enough rather than irradiate nerfed from 180 damage to 120 making bioplay bad.
Muta's still get wrecked by irradiate because the dps is the same and defiler still dies from irradiate (defiler has 80hp).


The casting range of the defiler was buffed by 2 range, so I think it is a very weird train of thought to conclude that is now worse to use aggressively since you get off swarms easier.
And you make it seem like the new irradiate is so bad that zergs can just ignore the vessel cloud... I don't even...


Irradiate was (and still is to some extent) THE answer to everything zerg has, we have to make the other options of terran ridiculously overpowered to make them contend with the vessel. I mean, why would you make option A if it fights well vs X and Y if option B fights well vs X, Y and Z in an even better way than option A fights vs X and Y.
We did not move away from keep everything OP at all, we just want to give some chance to the other units terran has, like the ghost. We are aware that bio is under-performing (partially due to bugs, like firebat with bugged aoe) and will try to fix that in the next patch.

On January 28 2014 01:46 Grumbels wrote:

I don't see the problem to be honest. I don't know why it should be a design goal to have such a diversified set of unit counters. As a terran you don't have infinite resources and you can't make that many starports without your ground army becoming too weak. And if the vessel cloud gets out of hand that's because you didn't force enough scourge hits. You want to deliberately gimp the unit just so that you don't even want to make it, instead of having a situation where you want to make it but can't because of resource constraints and so on.