EPTStarbow - Page 118
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On January 23 2014 18:30 Lunareste wrote: Oh man. just played my first game against a really nice ex-bw player. It was fucking INCREDIBLE! We battled all over the map as we each made units and countered each others compositions with new tech. 1. We went through the "standard" opening of him pushing my natural expansion with his Dragoons, I counter with Bunker and Siege tanks 2. I eventually create a Spider Mine field while he pushed my vultures back from entering his territory, so I create a Siege line with defensive vultures outside of the choke at his natural, so he sends reaver drops out into my bases while he masses units to push through. 3. He made sentinels to push me away from his natural, we fall back to mine while I produce goliaths 4. He masses up a huge Zealot/Dragoon army to counter me, and I have to leapfrog my tanks across the map back to his choke with vulture/goliath support 5. I set up a choke again and realize that I'm too late to stop his third, which has finished, so I have to split my army to try and kill his new expo 6. When I push out, he comes in with Carriers and makes me fall back to my natural again, while I get more Goliaths and Vikings 7. He pushes me back to my base and counters my 3rd and 4th with DTs, which I cannot setup defense for due to being pushed back to my natural while I wait for enough Goliaths. gg! What is really blowing my mind is the concept that this entire game played out in such a way because Terran can create serious map control at contentious places. Whenever I watched Brood War and then came to play SC2, this is what I felt was missing to facilitate creating a deeper, more strategical game. I understand that he HAS to break through my line to expand, that I can hold this place on a map where I am in control. This is so much fucking better than trying to medivac drop in his base while I try and avoid his Colossus and High Templar every game. The fact that we fought across the map, from his natural to my natural, with small amounts of units that each served an important purpose in defending and pushing the enemy back while we reinforced for the next attack is absolutely stunning. There was no point where we really overwhelmed another; whether it was me trying to drop Spider Mines outside of his ramp and him rebuffing, or me retreating with 5 tanks, 3 vultures and 5 goliaths from 2 Carriers and some Chargelots while my next wave is moving across the map. The most important thing is that the pacing of this game felt so incredible, there was no point where all of my army just evaporated due to him having A-move units like Collosi and High Templar against Terran Bio. I lost but I had so much fucking FUN playing against Protoss for the first time in YEARS. I never felt like there wasn't a point that I COULDN'T attack because he had a certain tech that I couldn't fight against, like I would in SC2 when Protoss would have out Colossus and I had no Vikings. I always loved Starcraft 2, but one game of this mod makes it so abundantly clear that THIS is what Starcraft SHOULD be. And I am so incredibly fucking happy that this mod is here to stay. And I hope so incredibly hard that the Blizzard devs can take a look at this and apply some of its lessons to the actual game itself, so I can watch my favorite players and heroes battle on in a much better Starcraft 2 experience. Post brought happy tears to many an eye this day. But seriously, it is quite amazing as you describe. The reason the mod is like this is because expanding matters in this game. If you don't take other bases eventually, you will get crushed economically and die. So eventually every game you have to attack opponent's expansions and defend your outlying ones to continue on in the game. Also, having tanks at 2 supply, and 150 min/100 gas means you can allocate more of them to more areas on the map, and since they don't suck, they can hold positions with mines too. And the reason that is not imbalance in itself is because for example, Protoss has brood war arbiters with recall that allow you to also gain or lose map positioning which matters a lot. All of the TvPs i've played in Starbow as well are pretty epic (well, as long as they don't involve oracle 2.0 sentinels) and it's awesome seeing siege tanks not suck again  | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
On January 24 2014 01:38 avilo wrote: All of the TvPs i've played in Starbow as well are pretty epic (well, as long as they don't involve oracle 2.0 sentinels) and it's awesome seeing siege tanks not suck again Sentinels and Oracles are way different >.> | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
We just played 5 games of Starbow RvR and i won 4-1 hahaha. If only i didnt forget the toss building that gets you storm also gets you Dts my no-detection-lurker contain might have worked and i could have swept him 5-0. Oh well. Super fun and strangely nostalgic. | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
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TT1
Canada9984 Posts
On January 23 2014 21:44 shin_toss wrote: Hmm has anyone got a vod links to TTOne or any good toss right now on Starbow? .Im having a hard time in PvZ , tried watching some recent Bisu BW plays but sadly my apm cant handle microing corsair vs scourges while macroing. I think you needed at least 200 minimum APM for that. Tho on the other hand , zergs just right click scourges to corsairs then go back to macro. And also how to punish their expansions? sending zealots not that ideal , cause lings can see your every movement on the map and can prepare for it very well. http://www.twitch.tv/tt1/profile/pastBroadcasts if u cant open with sairs then try to go zeal pressure into ht/archon + a 3rd. you can either 1g gasless exp or fe | ||
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
On January 23 2014 19:55 sluggaslamoo wrote: Yup, counter with corsairs because he wont have good AA (seriously the only thing that can kill corsairs are scourge, they should never die against hydras with good micro). Once you have genocided his overlords proceed to rek him with dts every where while staying safe with a cannon on high ground and getting obs. Lurkers also cant kill DTs without detection. This exact thing happened to bisu where he was reduced to one base and he won by killing 50 units with a single DT and nuking overlords with corsairs. First and foremost: I LOVE STARBOW and the best part is: it brought to playing protoss again (like I did in BW). In SC2 I played Zerg, because I hate force fields and other pimps. Now, back to the topic (lurker vs photon cannons): It's not about counters. You are right of course. But when reading the starbow wiki and the bw wiki it says: Lurker range: 6, cannon range (and vision?) 7! It also says 6 lurker and 7 photon cannon when looking in the game stats. BUT: Lurker range is rather 8 or 9, not 6. I played a game and can provide a replay, where you can clearly see that a lurker outranges a photon cannon and not even becomes visible. So it has to have 8 range, not 6 as wanted. This seems to be a BUG to me... Is it not? | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
On January 24 2014 01:12 Wombat_NI wrote: Dragoon model is ok IMO, aesthetics wise my main gripes tend to be with Protoss attack animations. Also Dragoons should explode into a mess of blue goo  The gameplay is pretty damn good atm though, not perfect but very solid and fun atm I don't even wanna know how long the list of things to check, bugfix, improve is for the devs atm, but maybe we can have a poll which units need aesthetic fixing the most: Poll: Eesthetically most unpleasent Starbow unit? Defiler (26) Dragoon (22) Sentinel (9) Marauder (4) Guardian (3) Firebat (1) Goliath (1) 66 total votes Your vote: Eesthetically most unpleasent Starbow unit? (Vote): Dragoon | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
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Prugelhugel
Austria637 Posts
- the idea of removing the super cost efficient high tech units like collossi, widow mines and broodlords is great. --> the game is not anymore about saving the most expensive units by gathering as much meatshield around it as possible - less workers with better mining rates makes them more valuable --> it encourages harrassment since it can give you a huge advantage if you are able to pick of some workers - slower game speed and forgiving macro mechanics (e.g. you can miss injects and pile up energy) --> the game is more focused on fancy micro - healthier units (maybe also due to non existing high damage/high cost units) --> you can actually retreat from engagements, regather your troops and fight again without having to rebuild 100 supply you just lost due to a bad positioning - lower base play is possible --> turning "ok, here comes the usual fourth base at minute whatever, meh" into "oh, wow, this guy is really taking a third at this time, amazing" As I never played BW (except the campaign and like 10 games with friends at lans) all things I like about this mod are actually things that could get translated into HotS aswell. The option to make radical balance changes (you don't have to care about having a 70% winrate for a race for a while, just try things out!) may give you the chance to make a superior game. As much as I like the HotS units, I'd really love to see you guys dominating the Korean/World RTS scene with a free-to-play mixture of the highlights of BW, SC2 and your own awesome ideas!!! | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19152 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
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goody153
44020 Posts
On January 24 2014 05:00 BisuDagger wrote: I will try and find to cast some more SB this weekend. Definitely will be playing around with it more too. YES :D | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
On January 24 2014 01:58 FrozenProbe wrote: Sentinels and Oracles are way different >.> Yeh its super different. I actually had the pleasure of playing against an experienced heavy Sentinel user for the first time yesterday. I was a bit afraid it would annoying to play against, but it was actually really fun and I think for both sides it has an extremely high skillcap. The Nullsphre autofires if a unit comes into a range of 4, and at one point my opponent had 4 nullsphres at a certain location that I wanted to attack through. Therefore I stimmed one marine in an attempt to waste all of the 4 Nullsphres on the 4 marines, however, he had reacted quickly and turned off autocast. Since it, when manually casted has a high of 7, attacking into the Nullsphres would be quite inefficient if I did it with all my marines armies. So I stimmed in like 10 Marines and quickly attacked all of the Nullsphres and killed 3 of them. However, he managed to manually targetfire with one of them whereafter I attempted to split my Marines as quickly as possible to avoid taking splash damage. Overall, this unit has so much skill-potential - for both players. Playing against it optimally and using it optimally is super hard. My theory is that Avilo didn't know that it actually set up a killable-trap and for some reason thought the Sentinel itself a "ball" that dealt splash and slowed the opponents units down. But in my opinion this unit is so different from the Oracle in a lot of ways, msotly ofc that you can micro against it. And if a Sentinel enters your base, you can micro your scv's away one-by-one to avoid losing any workers. | ||
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TT1
Canada9984 Posts
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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NapkinBox
United States314 Posts
I just think they look too big. Weren't they just slight bigger than Zerglings in BW? Now they're fucking monsters lol | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
The current radius is just a bit small, can be inconvenient with wallins and also now with Gateways as opposed to Warp Gates which could be built wherever and stacked on top of each other we need more buildable space in our base too. | ||
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