EPTOf course they are going to be close to 50%, that's how you designed the ladder, so that everyone aside from the top dogs have an even win/loss ratio! That doesn't tell us anything about balance o_O What the hell?!
David Kim's Current Balance Thoughts - Page 32
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
Of course they are going to be close to 50%, that's how you designed the ladder, so that everyone aside from the top dogs have an even win/loss ratio! That doesn't tell us anything about balance o_O What the hell?! | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On January 11 2014 12:44 Azelja wrote: I really don't get why they still post the winratios of any league other than GM or high profile tournaments. Of course they are going to be close to 50%, that's how you designed the ladder, so that everyone aside from the top dogs have an even win/loss ratio! That doesn't tell us anything about balance o_O What the hell?! Yes sir, I think just about every non protoss fan boy in this thread is screaming this same thing. DK's post came off as condescending and was certainly full of useless stats from a system designed to make everybody 50% no matter what. It is VERY obvious that they are not working on SC2 anymore, and have completely moved on to their MOBA game. When is the last time you heard someone over at Blizzard say "So I was PLAYING TERRAN ON LADDER and here is what I think!"? Yea.... exactly. They haven't played this game in quite some time. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On January 11 2014 13:32 Iron_ wrote: Yes sir, I think just about every non protoss fan boy in this thread is screaming this same thing. DK's post came off as condescending and was certainly full of useless stats from a system designed to make everybody 50% no matter what. It is VERY obvious that they are not working on SC2 anymore, and have completely moved on to their MOBA game. When is the last time you heard someone over at Blizzard say "So I was PLAYING TERRAN ON LADDER and here is what I think!"? Yea.... exactly. They haven't played this game in quite some time. Wow, the shit people make up to whine gets ridiculous... David Kim says he plays ladder like every single time he goes on a live chat. And the last one was Unfiltered from like...a couple months ago? And even if no one said "I play ladder", that clearly means that they don't have any staff that plays/tests/monitors the games... So please stop pulling bullshit from your ass. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Look, its their game to do as they please. I still maintain that the reason players are dropping off (apart from general decay) is the sheer frustration with certain aspects of the game. It's not an imbalance thing, it's a fairness thing. People enjoy games where they lose, if it's an epic back and forth. It's the ONE engagement or missing the proxy pylon or what have you and being without a hope of recovery that makes it so damn annoying. I mean, if I was a Zerg player I'd probably have to quit playing for a day if I had to face the old WP/ramp forcefield combo at all regularly of a ladder session. Shit like that is fucking dumb, and shouldn't be in the game IMO. SC2 has its moments but it's been held back from achieving even more by a refusal to address certain more core design components. Us whiners may sound like a broken record when it comes to Warpgate and certain aspects of macro mechanics, economy and terrible terrible damage being problematic not for balance but for enjoyment. It's not fun o continually raise issues that will never ever be looked at by the devs but I for one am a masochist :p | ||
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Gofarman
Canada648 Posts
On January 10 2014 13:12 Gofarman wrote: What do you mean by that? the SC2 team is full of shit and looking to mislead? That little star doesn't give you a pass to be rude when you feel like it, if anything that shit shouldn't be tolerated from someone who is a 'quality poster'... Ingrate. User was warned for this post Please ban me for 1 month. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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fishinguy
Russian Federation798 Posts
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Entropy137
Canada215 Posts
On January 11 2014 14:31 Gofarman wrote: Please ban me for 1 month. User was temp banned for this post. love this | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On January 11 2014 15:17 lichter wrote: The best part about these balance threads is the sudden influx of bans for ABL to discuss I love how he randomly necrod his own post for no reason. more on topic I like how blizzard at least appears to be more open about what their thinking and why. | ||
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Entropy137
Canada215 Posts
On January 11 2014 15:03 fishinguy wrote: Can Blizzard actually give Terran a late game option so they can fight better vs the other two races. It can probably be done without breaking the early game at all. ghosts/orbitals/vikings | ||
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Meepman
Canada610 Posts
Way to go, it's working! | ||
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
On January 11 2014 15:38 Meepman wrote: ...Which makes it extremely easy to see racial imbalance, because it will skew matchup winrates to reach the 50% overall winrate.Wait did he actually think nobody would realize that the ladder is designed to produce 50% winrates...? Way to go, it's working! | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
I have to assume that the Protoss that survive to lategame enjoy higher winrates (If we could find stats for 20+ minutes, 30+ minutes, 40+ minutes), but that is balanced with a difficulty of Protoss to survive all Terran's tools between Stim+2/3base until Colossus+HT+Ups 3base. I do like the measured look Blizzard continues to take in response to this, and the small decrease in Photon Cannon duration to see if that's enough. | ||
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
Pray tell, how in the world is Terran suppose to safely build this very expensive/long-build-time army without dying? If its not a composition that can be reliably built, its not really an answer to the problems just because its a strong. | ||
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
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Vidar
United States35 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
I don't understand how he can rely only on stats beacause Winrate ratio are so difficult to interpret with MMR. If T lose vs a P, he will get match vs a lower skilled P until he can win. But, you have no reliable stats to know if the T is way better than the P, but the MU is broken, so he's forced to stagnate in a lower league/MMR, or if the players match each others have an real egal skill. Moreover, if with this system the win rate is about 52.63% for example, is it really balance cause it's closed to 50% ? Cause, if 100 000 games (exemple, don't know exactly how many games are played) are played, that mean in master NA league Protoss wins 5263000 games and Terran only 4727000 : That's a lot while the system supposed to keep players at a 50% win rate. Of course, david must only look for the win rate of master kor league, for saying things are OK. But we can aslo see, P are favored vs T until the players reach a very high level. That's mean, the fact all of us we know, T need way more skill to beat a P. And Davie refuse to look the GM league whereas he says he only want to balance the game at pro level, he refuses to look the pro level ? By the way, this league is one of the best indicator of the balance state, beacause not that affected by MMR. GomTvT area : a lot of more Terrans. Broodlord infestor area : More Zergs. More than 50% protoss GM ? Davie "It's Ok, the game is balance". it is not signifiant. This mean that some changes can be made to balance the PvT, without affecting the high top GM, like making Protoss management harder while not touching of the strenght of the race. Thus, terran players will not anymore have the feelings to be beaten by a low skill player while they need a pro kor level to beat them. Dear himself and some top P have said they want tools to differenciate between a good toss and a gosu toss. But we have this feelings David kim and balance team always look for the way to do nothing until they are forced to, and don't care about the game anymore due to the length they need to speak about the issue we have been reporting for months/years (honestly it takes 1 years to admit photon overcharge last to long, we have known that since beta...) But, I hope davie will make me lie. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On January 11 2014 08:16 MiCroLiFe wrote: c&c Generals where actually 33% on each of the 3 races. C&C Generals was imbalanced, that isn't true at all lol. | ||
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goody153
44311 Posts
On January 11 2014 17:38 Tyrhanius wrote: Problem of david kim is he only look for stats, and don't really speak about meta/games etc... I don't understand how he can rely only on stats beacause Winrate ratio are so difficult to interpret with MMR. If T lose vs a P, he will get match vs a lower skilled P until he can win. But, you have no reliable stats to know if the T is way better than the P, but the MU is broken, so he's forced to stagnate in a lower league/MMR, or if the players match each others have an real egal skill. Moreover, if with this system the win rate is about 52.63% for example, is it really balance cause it's closed to 50% ? Cause, if 100 000 games (exemple, don't know exactly how many games are played) are played, that mean in master NA league Protoss wins 5263000 games and Terran only 4727000 : That's a lot while the system supposed to keep players at a 50% win rate. Of course, david must only look for the win rate of master kor league, for saying things are OK. But we can aslo see, P are favored vs T until the players reach a very high level. That's mean, the fact all of us we know, T need way more skill to beat a P. And Davie refuse to look the GM league whereas he says he only want to balance the game at pro level, he refuses to look the pro level ? By the way, this league is one of the best indicator of the balance state, beacause not that affected by MMR. GomTvT area : a lot of more Terrans. Broodlord infestor area : More Zergs. More than 50% protoss GM ? Davie "It's Ok, the game is balance". it is not signifiant. This mean that some changes can be made to balance the PvT, without affecting the high top GM, like making Protoss management harder while not touching of the strenght of the race. Thus, terran players will not anymore have the feelings to be beaten by a low skill player while they need a pro kor level to beat them. Dear himself and some top P have said they want tools to differenciate between a good toss and a gosu toss. But we have this feelings David kim and balance team always look for the way to do nothing until they are forced to, and don't care about the game anymore due to the length they need to speak about the issue we have been reporting for months/years (honestly it takes 1 years to admit photon overcharge last to long, we have known that since beta...) But, I hope davie will make me lie. This i agree with the bolded area. | ||
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goody153
44311 Posts
On January 11 2014 17:49 AxionSteel wrote: C&C Generals was imbalanced, that isn't true at all lol. C&C Generals was shit. | ||
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