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Active: 590 users

HyuN owed $23,000 in back pay and prize money by Quantic -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
614 CommentsPost a Reply
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astray71
Profile Joined February 2012
United States325 Posts
January 03 2014 18:07 GMT
#581
On January 03 2014 22:20 Serinox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2014 19:36 Doublehelix_ wrote:
So how much he made yesterday? We're asking since the stream, on reddit and on twitter. It's pretty odd starting a fundraising and don't tell how much you made.

He made a bit over 7k
http://twtkr.olleh.com/view.php?long_id=L1g75u
[image loading]


Good job TL Community
There is no victory without the blessing of god, and there is no god but Madlife.
Cluster__
Profile Joined September 2013
United States328 Posts
January 03 2014 18:13 GMT
#582
Pleased to see that Hyun was able to have a pretty decent pay day yesterday given his circumstances. It's a bummer that people as positive as him get dealt shitty cards. Best of luck getting a new team. He'd be great for Liquid, but doubt they're trying to get more zergs.
Liquid`Snute, AcerScarlett, ROOTCatZ, MC, Maru, Soulkey, Losira
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
January 03 2014 23:37 GMT
#583
On January 04 2014 00:58 Ctone23 wrote:
Is this standard operating procedure for teams to disperse tournament winnings through the CEO to players? Does Team Liquid follow this same procedure? Seems to me that Hyun being 25 years old qualifies him to receive his own checks from Tournament organizers. If the team gets a cut out of Tournament winnings, couldn't the organizer of the event cut different checks?

It sounds like Simon had all of that money and thought he could expand the Quantic brand maybe, and failed at his investment hard and just took off, complete speculation, but that sort of thing happens a lot with investment bankers who lose peoples money.



According to the DailyDot article (I really wish more people in the thread would read it, since it explains a lot): Dreamhack's policy is to pay teams not players.

When a team is small / run as tightly as Quantic, then that pretty much means going through the CEO.

From what I understand that's also how Kespa teams run, they take the winnings, you get a salary and maybe a bonus (I think?) for winning. So that could be why Hyun didn't speak up earlier, also every few months in Community News there's a story about Tournament XYZ not paying prizes out after 6 months, ect.
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
January 04 2014 02:45 GMT
#584
This is horrible, just horrible. Glad the community was able to help Hyun out, but damn, this shit needs to stop happening!
I love crazymoving
redechelon
Profile Joined June 2011
27 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 03:57:11
January 04 2014 03:48 GMT
#585
The title is misleading... HyuN owed nothing. HyuN is owed maybe? Quantic owes?

Regardless, awesome that the SC2 community helped so much! =]
DiamondTear
Profile Joined June 2010
Finland165 Posts
January 04 2014 11:58 GMT
#586
DH's system does sound ridiculous considering the reliability of eSports teams.
Keeemy
Profile Joined November 2012
Finland7855 Posts
January 04 2014 12:14 GMT
#587
On January 04 2014 12:48 redechelon wrote:
The title is misleading... HyuN owed nothing. HyuN is owed maybe? Quantic owes?

Regardless, awesome that the SC2 community helped so much! =]

The title is correct since it says "owed by Quantic".
Hello
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
January 04 2014 12:21 GMT
#588
On January 04 2014 20:58 DiamondTear wrote:
DH's system does sound ridiculous considering the reliability of eSports teams.


The players can choose to take the money directly, I think, but they'd be subject to (more) taxes if they did.
AdministratorBreak the chains
Thorgald
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden4 Posts
January 04 2014 14:02 GMT
#589
On January 04 2014 21:21 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 20:58 DiamondTear wrote:
DH's system does sound ridiculous considering the reliability of eSports teams.


The players can choose to take the money directly, I think, but they'd be subject to (more) taxes if they did.


No, if the teams takes a cut of the winnings the player loses more money then if he kept all of it and taxed for the lot himself.

Because the players still have to pay taxes on their earnings, so does the teams when they take a cut from it (meaning they have to take a larger cut to compensate).

Which means it'll even get taxed twice, or even three times. First a tax on the original sum, then another tax on the teams cut and then finally a tax on the players share...

Though i'm not all that confident when it comes to taxes so keep a big pile of salt handy when reading this...
DrunKin
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany30 Posts
January 04 2014 20:02 GMT
#590
Holy shit, its hard to read as I have been a part of quantic myself (dota2 manager) Simon made himself always look trustworthy, except dealing with things late. I never thought he is able to do something like that. I hope he gets sued and end up in prison.
Quantic Dota2 Team Manager - www.quanticgaming.com - www.twitter.com/DrunKinDOTA
Pittski
Profile Joined May 2010
United States50 Posts
January 04 2014 21:25 GMT
#591
This is why prize money should go to the player, and pay the percentage that goes to the team, and not the other way around. You won the money not the team.
The One and Only
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
January 04 2014 21:28 GMT
#592
On January 04 2014 23:02 Thorgald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 21:21 Zealously wrote:
On January 04 2014 20:58 DiamondTear wrote:
DH's system does sound ridiculous considering the reliability of eSports teams.


The players can choose to take the money directly, I think, but they'd be subject to (more) taxes if they did.


No, if the teams takes a cut of the winnings the player loses more money then if he kept all of it and taxed for the lot himself.

Because the players still have to pay taxes on their earnings, so does the teams when they take a cut from it (meaning they have to take a larger cut to compensate).

Which means it'll even get taxed twice, or even three times. First a tax on the original sum, then another tax on the teams cut and then finally a tax on the players share...

Though i'm not all that confident when it comes to taxes so keep a big pile of salt handy when reading this...


Found some salt

On January 01 2014 22:23 Bumblebee wrote:
There are also domestic laws regarding taxes. The reason most players choose to have the team's receive the prizemoney is because they have to pay Swedish taxes off of them if they are not paid out to a registered company, where this way around they can pay taxes in their own country. DreamHack does offer to pay out to the player directly, but few choose this option.

MLG also offers to pay out to both, but as a standard they pay the players directly. If you are from outside the US, they are forced to keep 30 % of your prizemoney in America (or at least the States that are relevant for MLG) so here nothing can be done unless your team has an American company that they could pay out to and that way it would allow the player to pay taxes in his own country.

Without continuing to write about every organization, there's always been an option everywhere from the events to pay it to the team or the player(s). As Kennigit said that makes sense because some contracts will have a clause about a percentage of the prizemoney won goes to the team.

AdministratorBreak the chains
fruity.
Profile Joined April 2012
England1711 Posts
January 06 2014 02:12 GMT
#593
1. He did recive some salary (like 5months out of 12).
2.So you would rather have 1/4 of your original salary but this is save? Sry but that doesnt make sense to me. And he did recive money.


No, what I am saying is that when he wasn't receiving his pay on a regular basis (I don't know how much he was due to be paid, how often or how much) He should of cut his losses and moved on, and tried to pursue simon to get what he was owed.

To clarify I would rather get a lower wage from another team - potentially, and get it ON TIME, than be given the run around and empty promises from a flaky individual who it seems has a history of either fucking up, or out right screwing people over.

To let matters get to the dizzying heights of 23 grand - to find yourself being owed THAT MUCH - it's just nuts. He should of got out long, long before. However, like I mentioned before, for all I know the vast majority of that balance is from a couple of huge wins, if that is the case perhaps it is understandable how one could get owed such a large amount.

Ex Zerg learning Terran. A bold move.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
January 06 2014 19:35 GMT
#594
Taking Hyun at his word this is the breakdown:

Hyun's recollection in the OP
The money I should have received was 80,000 SEK from DreamHack winnings (about $12,500) and $26,400 (2,200 x 12) in salary, but I only received $2,200 x5, and after that $950 x5, leaving $10,650 I have not received. In total it's about $23,000 I have not received.


So actually it is just a single tournament, with a not-straightfoward payment structure as discussed above. And really, the dirt on Simon only started coming out recently in terms of not paying people.

Prior he's been a bit flakey and messed up somethings like with the LoL visas, but managed to avoid serious problems (the visa situation even worked itself out as his team dropped out early).

I do agree with you that getting involved with Quantic after he took over would take a leap of faith as he has no real history runnign a major team, but looking further he had run a minor team for half a year prior to the deal for the Quantic brand, so maybe I'm being too harsh on that front.
fruity.
Profile Joined April 2012
England1711 Posts
January 08 2014 03:05 GMT
#595
On January 07 2014 04:35 Wuster wrote:
Taking Hyun at his word this is the breakdown:

Show nested quote +
Hyun's recollection in the OP
The money I should have received was 80,000 SEK from DreamHack winnings (about $12,500) and $26,400 (2,200 x 12) in salary, but I only received $2,200 x5, and after that $950 x5, leaving $10,650 I have not received. In total it's about $23,000 I have not received.


So actually it is just a single tournament, with a not-straightfoward payment structure as discussed above. And really, the dirt on Simon only started coming out recently in terms of not paying people.

Prior he's been a bit flakey and messed up somethings like with the LoL visas, but managed to avoid serious problems (the visa situation even worked itself out as his team dropped out early).

I do agree with you that getting involved with Quantic after he took over would take a leap of faith as he has no real history runnign a major team, but looking further he had run a minor team for half a year prior to the deal for the Quantic brand, so maybe I'm being too harsh on that front.


Thanks for clarifying that.

Making sweeping generalisations (like I did with simons 'flakyness' is always easier with hindsight..

I'm most happy that hyun seems to be sticking around in sc2 (and that the community donated a large chunk of money to him!). He's without doubt one of the great characters in our scene. Saw him stream a switch-race verses one of the ROOT guys the other day (he was playing as protoss and the root guy as zerg (sorry I don't recal who the root player was). Hyun was laughing away and having a great time - a fun stream!

I'd miss spider-hyun too if he left :-)
Ex Zerg learning Terran. A bold move.
Xahhk
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada540 Posts
January 08 2014 03:28 GMT
#596
On January 02 2014 08:09 ZodaSoda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2014 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On January 02 2014 08:00 ZodaSoda wrote:
On January 02 2014 03:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On January 01 2014 17:57 ZodaSoda wrote:
On January 01 2014 16:28 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On January 01 2014 12:21 Undead1993 wrote:
ye you could feel in the last couple of tournaments that he was stressed out, poor guy. kind of sad how some foreign teams treat the clueless koreans, axiom obviously doesn't but.


Axiom is not a foreign team


Foreign owned, Foreign ran, Foreign paid...


This is the reason I come to Teamliquid, to have random forum posters inform me of what my team is and isn't.


Right, random forum poster who has been following and organizing the way teams are recognized in Starcraft longer than you've been interested in the game...

Take your attitude somewhere else on this one Biscuitboy

Why is it so important to you people call Axiom a "Korean" team anyway? its not going to happen if you keep calling it your team and you keep telling us that you pay them and that you organize their flights, and without GSTL now, Axiom not in Proleague, you're as far as you can get from being a proper "Korean" team in the meaning of the phrase coming from the BW days... at best you're a International team who happens to only sign Koreans, if TL dropped all their players except for Taeja and HerO would that make Liquid a Korean team? no...

But of course i get ahead of my self here, I'm talking to you of all people and whats in your mind is right! can't argue with that...


It's cute that the Broodwar Elitists are still around and still as snippy as ever.


I'm a Starcraft 2 Elitist if anything lol, run along manchild.


Why are posts from a guy getting mad at someone not using his definitions allowed?

Better shitposting on /vg/
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
January 12 2014 18:41 GMT
#597
Nice article on Simon and Quantic Gaming:

The bitter end to a desperate eSports gamble
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/10/5293696/the-sad-end-to-a-desperate-esports-gamble

Through an inheritance, Boudreault had come into a lot of money and had decided to invest it in the thing he cared about most; eSports. Even working at his successful family business, which manufactures classy office furniture, he had sought to launch a gaming desk design specifically for pro-gamers.

He had owned a minor team called 4Not, which had merged with some other teams and with Quantic, a bigger brand that was failing. It was owned by some guys, including senior Google employees, whose passion for competitive gaming had cooled. Boudreault bought up a majority share and started spending. The well-known StarCraft player HyuN was signed and the StarCraft 2 team did okay, winning here and there, mostly on the back of HyuN's skill.

But Boudreault's main interest was in League of Legends. Colleagues say that he spent long hours playing the game, and most of his professional energy went into his brand-saving scheme to get Quantic into the LCS. He announced the new team in September, telling GameSpot that it would be "a major game changer to the North American Challenger and LCS scene." It was headed up by the respected player Yoonsup "Locodoco" Choi.

Dcq1ur2

"All of the money was going into that," said Clark. "Legal fees, travel, visas, thousands of dollars. But nothing was happening. Simon was never available. He just wouldn't respond to requests for information."

The Koreans, young men in their late teens and early twenties, were housed with Bernie Catalan and his girlfriend, at their home in Southern California. One of the players went home after a few weeks, unhappy with the situation. Catalan and his partner struggled with the responsibility of looking after the team, who were in their home from September through to the tournament in December.

"They were young so they were kinda untidy and my girlfriend complained about them not cleaning up," he told Polygon. "She really likes a clean house. She wasn't really thrilled about having five guys who mostly didn't speak English in the house." Various attempts by Polygon to contact former team members for interview have been unsuccessful.

To keep the team entertained, Catalan took them on days out to Six Flags, and other diversions. "They wanted to go out to eat a lot. We went to batting cages and laser tag and go-carting."

Boudreault had promised $2,500 a month in living expenses as well as help with utility bills, according to Catalan. But his household only received $2,000 a month. He said it was not unusual to have to pick up expenses tabs, and then try, often in vain, to be compensated later.

Catalan said that the money problems affected the team. "They might have been a lot less stressed out without that problem," he said. "They would say, let's go to Trader Joes to get some food and I'd say, well, Simon hasn't sent the money yet."
chadissilent
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada1187 Posts
January 13 2014 00:31 GMT
#598
On January 13 2014 03:41 Sufinsil wrote:
Nice article on Simon and Quantic Gaming:

The bitter end to a desperate eSports gamble
http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/10/5293696/the-sad-end-to-a-desperate-esports-gamble

Show nested quote +
Through an inheritance, Boudreault had come into a lot of money and had decided to invest it in the thing he cared about most; eSports. Even working at his successful family business, which manufactures classy office furniture, he had sought to launch a gaming desk design specifically for pro-gamers.

He had owned a minor team called 4Not, which had merged with some other teams and with Quantic, a bigger brand that was failing. It was owned by some guys, including senior Google employees, whose passion for competitive gaming had cooled. Boudreault bought up a majority share and started spending. The well-known StarCraft player HyuN was signed and the StarCraft 2 team did okay, winning here and there, mostly on the back of HyuN's skill.

But Boudreault's main interest was in League of Legends. Colleagues say that he spent long hours playing the game, and most of his professional energy went into his brand-saving scheme to get Quantic into the LCS. He announced the new team in September, telling GameSpot that it would be "a major game changer to the North American Challenger and LCS scene." It was headed up by the respected player Yoonsup "Locodoco" Choi.

Dcq1ur2

"All of the money was going into that," said Clark. "Legal fees, travel, visas, thousands of dollars. But nothing was happening. Simon was never available. He just wouldn't respond to requests for information."

The Koreans, young men in their late teens and early twenties, were housed with Bernie Catalan and his girlfriend, at their home in Southern California. One of the players went home after a few weeks, unhappy with the situation. Catalan and his partner struggled with the responsibility of looking after the team, who were in their home from September through to the tournament in December.

"They were young so they were kinda untidy and my girlfriend complained about them not cleaning up," he told Polygon. "She really likes a clean house. She wasn't really thrilled about having five guys who mostly didn't speak English in the house." Various attempts by Polygon to contact former team members for interview have been unsuccessful.

To keep the team entertained, Catalan took them on days out to Six Flags, and other diversions. "They wanted to go out to eat a lot. We went to batting cages and laser tag and go-carting."

Boudreault had promised $2,500 a month in living expenses as well as help with utility bills, according to Catalan. But his household only received $2,000 a month. He said it was not unusual to have to pick up expenses tabs, and then try, often in vain, to be compensated later.

Catalan said that the money problems affected the team. "They might have been a lot less stressed out without that problem," he said. "They would say, let's go to Trader Joes to get some food and I'd say, well, Simon hasn't sent the money yet."

Shit like this is exactly why Clarity declined joining in this merger. Then again, it doesn't exactly seem like the money for the house was used properly. Taking the team out multiple times, eating out a lot, etc. isn't really an efficient use of funds. If you skip on some of that stuff, you wouldn't really have issues buying groceries for the team.
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
January 13 2014 15:12 GMT
#599
It seemed he had some money and figure he put it into an eSports team. The thing he did not realize is that it takes a lot of hard work, more so at the beginning to make them even have a chance for success.

I am even surprised they were able to get 5 Koreans to the States and living there. I wonder if they were just on short term 3-6 month visas.
huller20
Profile Joined August 2010
United States112 Posts
January 23 2014 22:21 GMT
#600
So...any update on this. I mean the guy can't not respond for life...
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